Bluemour Melting Pot XXIX

[The Bighouse]

Ramsay won’t, he obviously did something to the match committee. He has had more possessions in one game than Durdin in the year.

How did we replace a ball winner with a small pressure forward?


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Odd indeed.
I don’t believe Ramsay comes from SA…
The only reason possible, unless he tore the oppo a new one in the match sim last w/end and we will have one of the greatest 1-2 forward combos in McGovern & Durdin coming through.

 

[gab213]

It's a strange question to ask. Let me ask this - how many 4 time premiership coaches (still with the fire) have ever been available when a coaching appointment is about to be made.

I can't remember ever a coach like clarkson being available. How many 4 time premiership coaches been appointed to a new club and failed? Probably Barassi at Melbourne and the swans. Both clubs would tell you he did a great job without a decent playing list. Hardly a big sample size.

Don't get me wrong, not saying Clarkson is a must, but rather that your means for discounting him doesn't add up.

We have to also overlook a bit of baggage to make the case that Lyon is our best option. Forget the goofy uncle personna that he portrays in the media. Remember the sexual harassment allegations at freo and the way that he jumped ship on the saints mid contract negotiations.

You could easily argue that there is a much larger capacity for things to go wrong if we appointed Ross Lyon.

Other than Barassi, as you mentioned, the only other example that I can think of is Tom Hafey, 4 flags at Richmond, then coached at Collingwood, Geelong, and Sydney without adding to his tally. He went very close at Collingwood, with 4 Losses, and a draw from 5 Grand Finals.

The one difference there is with Clarkson is that Hafey left Richmond after 11 years before joining Collingwood. Clarkson is at a more advanced stage in his coaching career, more in line with where Hafey was when he was sacked at Collingwood mid-season before moving on to Geelong the next year.

Geelong didn't make the Finals under Hafey despite having a talented list and the Swans although finishing 2 and 3rd after the home and away season in two of his three years as coach, were bundled out in straight sets both times.

 

[charred_fate]

Perhaps the conclusion its the sum of all parts.

Absolutely, which is why it's dumb for people to discount all of the elements that make up a strong culture and the impact that that culture has on team performance overall.

An equally silly argument is to say something along the lines of "if Hawthorn's culture is so good, why are they bottom 4?" ... it totally disregards all of the elements in play...

However, you can still compare Hawthorn's performances against Carlton's and see that Hawthorn's appears better, stronger and more ruthless (personally, think they're playing a very risky game over the next couple of years, but keeping it in the present)... They may not have the talent across the board and they've got a bunch of young guys who may or may not get there... but the evidence is in the way they go about their footy, not the wins and losses... How often do you see Hawthorn's players playing soft or unaccountable footy?? I'm sure it has happened in the last few years - I've seen it - but it's few and far between ... their players know the standard required if you want to be part of a Hawks team and they know they'll be shown the door if they can't stick to it. Very different situation to what you see from Carlton.

 

[gab213]

Never forget that this is a man who proudly claims, on air, that he wears clear non prescription glasses because it makes him look ‘more intelligent’.

It's called humour if people don't recognise it. People look for anything to pot people over these days, sad state of affairs.

 

[BlueTongue]

Nobody should be given carte blanche.

Carte blanche is another way of saying that this person will be our messiah, that they alone can solve all of our problems.

If we give anyone carte blanche we've learnt nothing.

I disagree. Carte Blanche is a bit over the top, but the club should put faith in Clarko to do what needs to be done without being impeded by the club. We’ve had zero success in 25 years and our coaches have always been under the pump with the weight of expectation. If we get Clarko, it should be a 5 year deal and let him put the structures in place he needs.

 

[Stickitupthem]

Watching the hawks structures and how they modify their game styles to beat teams amazes me , clarko would be a revelation for us

 

[V_23]

Watching the hawks structures and how they modify their game styles to beat teams amazes me , clarko would be a revelation for us

His price would be going up by the week with the way he's got them playing.

 

[Gingerbread man]

I support Teague

 

[CFC_#17]

I support Teague

He has made some amazing move

 

[BlueTongue]

I support Teague

Jesus, that last shot of him in the box, he looks absolutely broken and sick. I think he needs to stop coaching even if he’s not sacked.

I feel really sorry for him atm.

Looks like he does care after all, just bottles it all up and doesn’t show it. Right now he’s showing it though.

Mate, give it up and go spend some time with your young family. This club is too much for you and you need a break.

 

[Beast__Mode]

Okay, quite simple for me. I do not know if he is the right person and don't pretend that I can critique his game plan, or lack thereof. But what I can question is if he has been given a reasonable chance to succeed.

I've said all this before but here goes again. He is still to complete 2 full seasons as coach and people have been calling for his removal for almost this full season.

Both of his full seasons have been seriously affected by Covid. Scratch match development programs and Hub living all have to have had an effect on any development/coaching strategies he may want to initiate.

Most on here agree that there is a serious problem with our support (through football management and assistants) but we're more than happy to blame Teague alone for this and pretend we know that he ignores both tactical and medical advice.

Injuries to key players. Just look at our Tall and Ruck stocks over the last few weeks (weeks, incidentally, that his back was against the wall big time) All of our big name recruits have been disappointing mainly because of constant injury problems. These were the players that we were relying on most to lift us up the ladder and they've effectively been no help at all. Yes, you could say all teams have injury problems but I'd point out that this is the first year in many that Richmond have had some of their better players injured, and how are they (and Hardwick) handling it?

I've already seen Hardwick use this as an excuse in a presser and FWIW have seen Clarkson do it as well. I've never seen Teague complain about injury numbers.

Worth also noting that a number of far better credentialed teams than us have been beaten far more convincingly than we have. We've had games where I have felt we looked terrible but we have yet to be blown off the park.

In summary, I just do not believe that 2 years is enough time to give an untried coach. We are well prepared to give many of our draftees 5 or more years to develop and yet the coach gets two? Is there a huge difference here?

As I said, I have no idea if he could be a successful coach, my crystal ball isn't that good, but I firmly believe that he has not been so bad (given the above) that he cannot be permitted to at least finish his contract.

appreciate the response. Is two years enough? An interesting question. Is it enough to see the finished product the coach may have as a vision? Probably not. Is it enough to see what the plan is supposed to look like when it works? Probably yes. I just see holes that every club we play rip apart on a weekly basis that our coaches are either unable or unwilling to address.

i don’t accept injuries or Covid. Every club deals with them. Richmond won a flag without Alex Rance.

 

[smashbox gill]

Pay clarko whatever he wants

 

[zeggie]

I'm worried a loss like this might make a Cerra, Hewett and other potential targets start to have second thoughts.

 

[Mister Carlton]

Pay clarko whatever he wants

Why would he waste his time on this rabble of a club.
I'd be taking the year off and taking the GC position.

 

[Metalcrusher]

Why would he waste his time on this rabble of a club.
I'd be taking the year off and taking the GC position.

Because we have, Weiters, Walsh and Mckay ... that is a spine to build around.

 

[teagueyubeauty]

I'm worried a loss like this might make a Cerra, Hewett and other potential targets start to have second thoughts.

Good, we need to go to the draft heavily again


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[zeggie]

Good, we need to go to the draft heavily again


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I disagree. We've drafted heavily. We need the cream, ie. another KPP, mid and winger and an actual, working gameplan and coaching staff who can teach, educate and make it happen.

 

[Chookaradley]

I disagree. We've drafted heavily. We need the cream, ie. another KPP, mid and winger and an actual, working gameplan and coaching staff who can teach, educate and make it happen.

I agree. This team has talent. What it needs is structure, and coaches who can actually develop and nurture young talent.

 

[carlton4lyfe]

mini rebuild incoming

 

[Benaly28]

I'm worried a loss like this might make a Cerra, Hewett and other potential targets start to have second thoughts.

Players ain’t silly they’d know our situation.IF Clarko or Lyon coaches that’ll make a huge difference.The injuries today were way too much to cover and once the damn wall broke that was it.


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[zeggie]

Players ain’t silly they’d know our situation.IF Clarko or Lyon coaches that’ll make a huge difference.The injuries today were way too much to cover and once the damn wall broke that was it.


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Hopefully this loss can be swept under the carpet and explained away like that.

 

[jpfalvo]

No doubt Cain from Marketing is going to convene a Focus Group, to study and determine if Teague stays or goes, based off impact to membership sales.

We will know in 4-6weeks as he is a " good carlton person "

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[bluebaggerjuls]

No doubt Cain from Marketing is going to convene a Focus Group, to study and determine if Teague stays or goes, based off impact to membership sales.

We will know in 4-6weeks as he is a " good carlton person "

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if him and MLG really gave two shits about "good carlton people" we would still have SOS as our list manager.

 

[The Bighouse]

I'm worried a loss like this might make a Cerra, Hewett and other potential targets start to have second thoughts.

Perhaps but Tiges still signed 3 in the ‘16 off-season after a thrashing.
Decisions usually made in advance & bigger picture ($ / home / opportunity etc).

 

[FRUMPY]

I'm worried a loss like this might make a Cerra, Hewett and other potential targets start to have second thoughts.

The last few years of trades/free agents haven't done much for us thus far. Reckon we need to concentrate on our club, development and coaching before worrying about recruits.

We could get cerra and turn him into a shit footballer within a month at our current rate.

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