Bluemour Melting Pot XXV

[Aphrodite]

Continued here ...

Bluemour Melting Pot XXVI

As per the Bluemour File OP, this is a thread for discussing Carlton related rumours. http://www.bigfooty.com/forum/threads/bluemour-file.1085141/ Rumour posters should post their rumours in both threads for those that like just to read rumours and for those that like to have get lost in their...

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[Macca43]

I remember him looking outstanding in his first season. Don't ever recall Dow looking outstanding sorry.

Got the rising star nomination for 20 disposals and 4 clearances against the Pies in his first year and had 18 and 2 goals against the Suns a few weeks later.

 

[The Dochs in]

Why can't they?

I didnt say they cant, I just said how? Im assuming all of Dangerfield, Duncan, Selwood, Hawkins, Menegola, Guthrie etc are on reasonable quid. Dont often see sides bring in two FAs and an established player when they are surely paying plenty of guys decent coin. If Crouch is willing to come for bugger all, you cant tell me Port arent going to be able to offer the same amount and entice him to not have to leave Adelaide. Same with Cameron who by all reports doesnt want to leave just wants more money. I just thought it was surprising thats all.

 

[HereComesJuddy]

I didnt say they cant, I just said how? Im assuming all of Dangerfield, Duncan, Selwood, Hawkins, Menegola, Guthrie etc are on reasonable quid. Dont often see sides bring in two FAs and an established player when they are surely paying plenty of guys decent coin. If Crouch is willing to come for bugger all, you cant tell me Port arent going to be able to offer the same amount and entice him to not have to leave Adelaide. Same with Cameron who by all reports doesnt want to leave just wants more money. I just thought it was surprising thats all.

I'd say smart list management. Most likely bigger salieries in their first year or 2 of a long term contract. SOS did it with all our big signings

 

[Bostonian]

it's dropped off a little bit, but it was ******* ridiculous for a minute there. a full-blown semi-professional league. think Joeys had 14 VFL listed players on their list at one point. Tom Atkins was a standard midfielder there for a few years.

Still pretty good, a lot of the teams are working hard on the youth angle now though so the league teams ages have probably dropped.

Even South Barwon is investing heavily in the youth.

 

[Bostonian]

Got the rising star nomination for 20 disposals and 4 clearances against the Pies in his first year and had 18 and 2 goals against the Suns a few weeks later.

I guess I look for more consistency than that.

Walsh like consistency for high picks.

 

[The Old Dark Navy's]

Burgoyne, Frawley, Lake, Gibson at Hwth.

Most of those weren't huge purchases in terms of the news cycle though. Their place in the game not as big as most of the ones I mentioned.

Lake was seemingly busted. Gibson nowhere near as good as he became. Frawley did generate Melbourne top tier compensation which most people didn't think he was worth. Burgoyne was good at Port but again, nowhere near the consistent player he became.

 

[Magruder]

I just keep coming back to the issue that given the pressure on * at the moment, they can't afford to lose Saad for nothing. Dodo has to deal. It'll just be in the final hour of trade week it gets done.

Agree... but that's also why the first offer we make needs:

1. To be the most favourable terms to * that will be considered. (Deals get more in our favour as we go).
2. Have a hard deadline

although I think we tried to do the right thing by Papley last year, we really need to avoid being held hostage.

 

[bigdog43]

I remember him looking outstanding in his first season. Don't ever recall Dow looking outstanding sorry.

3:07 in this pre season game of his first year. The talent is there, I just don't think he's there physically yet.

 

[Macca43]

I guess I look for more consistency than that.

Walsh like consistency for high picks.

LOL Walsh broke every record in the book in his first year but you expect that from every high draft pick.

If you go back and have a look at all the comments over Dow's career you will find in his first year people were really happy with him (hence the club signed an contract extension until the end of 2022 before his first year even finished), the second year people started to complain he hadn't improved, his kicking wasn't great and he didn't work hard enough, then in the third where he hardly played due to injury the nay sayers are wanting him traded.

He has shown he has plenty of attributes that will make him a worthy pick 3 - just don't set you expectations as high as every early draft pick has to be a Walsh.

 

[Macca43]

3:07 in this pre season game of his first year. The talent is there, I just don't think he's there physically yet.

Exactly - after that game everyone was thinking we had another star.

 

[Crippablues]

I'd have just woken up from my nap..

100% this.

Like I said in an earlier post, I look forward to McGovern proving people on this forum wrong next season and having a great year. When all groups are able to train together and get some kind of continuity in their work we will see quite a few different looking players next season.

People also seem to neglect the fact that no club has 44 best 22 players. Dow, O'Brien etc are capable but didn't get any real work in over 2020. Let's see how 2021 treats us. Where will you all be when McGovern kicks 3 and has 15 touches in a final next year?

On SM-G955F using BigFooty.com mobile app

 

[Humpers]

3:07 in this pre season game of his first year. The talent is there, I just don't think he's there physically yet.

Dow had a few nice "highlight reel" moments in his first year however was far from being outstanding.

 

[Ash Man]

It would be nice if someone at the club could come out and explain to our supporters that Dow was injured for the majority of the year. Our football operations manager and coach have dropped the ball here. If it was McGovern or Betts, both would be on the front foot supporting them both. Disgraceful by the club in its support for a young talented player.

Pretty sure they had a list of injured players that was updated and communicated weekly

 

[Coops93]

I guess I look for more consistency than that.

Walsh like consistency for high picks.

Or Weitering like.

Dow has had a good game or 2, but he's done nothing to validate his draft position outside 1 moment vs the Suns that still gets talked about years later.

 

[Bostonian]

LOL Walsh broke every record in the book in his first year but you expect that from every high draft pick.

If you go back and have a look at all the comments over Dow's career you will find in his first year people were really happy with him (hence the club signed an contract extension until the end of 2022 before his first year even finished), the second year people started to complain he hadn't improved, his kicking wasn't great and he didn't work hard enough, then in the third where he hardly played due to injury the nay sayers are wanting him traded.

He has shown he has plenty of attributes that will make him a worthy pick 3 - just don't set you expectations as high as every early draft pick has to be a Walsh.

I have no expectations of him to be honest.

Just don't rate him at all.

 

[Macca43]

Dow had a few nice "highlight reel" moments in his first year however was far from being outstanding.

Was there anything that made you think we had made the wrong pick? He put together a pretty solid first year and contrary to popular opinion had improved on it in the first half of his second only once going below his first year average of 14 disposals and 5 times having more than 20 touches in 11 games before being shifted forward (he did have a very good game in our win against the Saints last year with 19 touches, 4 tackles and a goal).

 

[Macca43]

I have no expectations of him to be honest.

Just don't rate him at all.

You have no expectations yet this whole conversation is based on your statement that he hasn't done what a number 3 pick should - ie he isn't meeting your expectations of a number 3 pick!

 

[Macca43]

Or Weitering like.

Dow has had a good game or 2, but he's done nothing to validate his draft position outside 1 moment vs the Suns that still gets talked about years later.

Do we need to go back to Weitering's second and third year where he looked lost , played VFL and people were calling on us to trade him?

 

[Salt Lake Cities]

Whipping boys
Drugs
Grammar

Off season staples...

 

[Coops93]

Do we need to go back to Weitering's second and third year where he looked lost , played VFL and people were calling on us to trade him?

Due to us trying him up forward and then putting him back once his confidence was shot?

Even then he still showed more than Dow has, despite playing a position where typically takes longer for young players to blossom.

 

[Bostonian]

You have no expectations yet this whole conversation is based on your statement that he hasn't done what a number 3 pick should - ie he isn't meeting your expectations of a number 3 pick!

I have no expectations going forward, doesn't mean there were no expectations previously.

Not that hard to comprehend.

 

[Macca43]

Due to us trying him up forward and then putting him back once his confidence was shot?

Even then he still showed more than Dow has, despite playing a position where typically takes longer for young players to blossom.

And so we give Weitering a pass for that but don't make allowances for Dow being used forward (after building nicely to that point) then spending his third season injured and hampered by covid restrictions?

And like Walsh Weitering is an outlier not the norm.

 

[Adsky]

The history of pick 3 is littered with busts and just OKs. It gets skewed a bit by Judd, but pick 3 mids gives you the likes of Xavier Ellis, Dom Tyson and Jack Billings. Paddy has the talent and athletic traits to become a really good solid footballer and I wouldn't be writing him off completely just yet. Let's hope he can get a decent run at it injury-wise and he can come on.

Just changing topic a bit, given that we have severed ties with Northern, has anyone got any inkling of what we are going to do next season in terms of a seconds side? Clearly, the scratch matches did very little to aid the development of our players this year. I fear another year of similar will be the final nail in the coffin for some of these young blokes, ala Dow, LOB, Owies etc

 

[Macca43]

I have no expectations going forward, doesn't mean there were no expectations previously.

Not that hard to comprehend.

Ahh so becuase he hasn't met your expectations to this point you don't expect anything going forward. Got it.

I would suggest revisiting expecting a player to be "Walsh like" in the first place and you might adjust your expectations going forward.

 

[Macca43]

Whipping boys
Drugs
Grammar

Off season staples...

ITK's contradicting each other.