Bluemour Melting Pot XXVI

[The Old Dark Navy's]

As per the Bluemour File OP, this is a thread for discussing Carlton related rumours.
http://www.bigfooty.com/forum/threads/bluemour-file.1085141/

Rumour posters should post their rumours in both threads for those that like just to read rumours and for those that like to have get lost in their rumour files.

Remember ... #Bluemour





Continued from here ...

Bluemour Melting Pot XXV

Continued here ... https://www.bigfooty.com/forum/threads/bluemour-melting-pot-xxvi.1250444/

www.bigfooty.com

Continued here:

Bluemour Melting Pot XXVII

As per the Bluemour File OP, this is a thread for discussing Carlton related rumours. http://www.bigfooty.com/forum/threads/bluemour-file.1085141/ Rumour posters should post their rumours in both threads for those that like just to read rumours and for those that like to have get lost in their...

www.bigfooty.com

 

[La Dispute]

Once again, our discussion initiated upon whether you would take Saad at pick 8 in the ND. To which you answered no. Arrow, I know you want to take our conversation in another direction to where youre more comfortable. Im not interested in doing that.

You dont want to over pay because you rqte pick 8 in the 2020 draft. Any other year youd win this hands down. I wouldnt even be making the case because you would be right. But pick 8 in the 2020 draft is what were talking about and what it is worth.

So name those 6 kids. And if any of those kids are starting 22 by the time we finish our flag tilt then I'll concede to your infinite wisdom. I'd like to put a covenant on it though: those 6 kids must be taken at pick 8 or later.

There’s pros and cons either way. If we don’t get Saad we bank cap space and bring in a better play the year after. We would outbid any team for Kelly or Merrett in 2021, and take on a decent junior footballer as we have been. I rate both Bruhn and Macrae for some natural footballers who’d slot into AFL footy with relative ease.

Williamson plays the role we’re recruiting Saad for, Newman returns. The world is going to spin on its axis if we don’t land Saad.

There’s also no guarantee Saad continues his good form. 2020 Saad is worth Pick 8 at a pinch, 2018-2019 Saad isn’t worth anywhere near it.

Players don’t always trend upwards, despite our best intentions. Look at Wingard’s decline into mediocrity since joining the Hawks. It’d be nice to sit back and pencil in a topline small defender for another five years, but there’s no guarantee it happens. The other issue with a player like Saad is if they do lose their speed (via injury) they become half the player they were. Look at Scully (to use another Hawthorn example) and his decline after a serious injury wrecked his running power.

We haven’t hit our window to be giving so much importance to a guy who has had the equivalent of one A-grade season over a six-year career.

 

[BlueTongue]

He satisfied the criteria of a hyper-specific question. Cut me some slack?

 

[Wickzki]

The Age reporting Essendon demanding a first from Port for Orazio Fantasia

14

Orazio Fantasia

Age

29

Ht

180cm

Wt

73kg

Pos.

Fwd

Career

Season

Last 5

D

13.6

3star

K

7.4

3star

HB

6.2

4star

M

3.6

4star

T

3.1

5star

G

1.4

5star

D

9.8

2star

K

5.4

2star

HB

4.4

3star

M

3.0

3star

T

1.2

2star

G

0.2

3star

D

12.0

3star

K

4.6

2star

HB

7.4

5star

M

3.4

4star

T

2.2

4star

G

0.0

1star

is enough to convince me that Dodoro is still playing stupid games to win stupid prizes in the pre-trade period discussions.

I'll believe we'll bend to his crazy when it happens.

 

[BIuebagger]

As much as I don’t think he will make the grade, I think the McCartin one is our coaches and recruiting team hoping he can realise his potential - as a KPF. He would be a depth option and play 2s on a minimal deal I’d say, with us hoping he can somehow unlock the ability of what made him go 1. An aging Casboult and continued subpar performances from Gov makes sense for this to happen, along with the potential JSOS departure.

I think if that’s the direction the club is looking at with this, then I’m happy to give him a short contract to see if he can make the grade. Either way, I hope that he is better and feeling healthier. I just hope he doesn’t further risk his health by coming back when he shouldn’t.

 

[chelseacarlton]

Couldn't disagree with your assessment more.

Value is based on how valuable a player is to the team, not in isolation.

Pick 8, yeah let’s just hand over our most valuable pick for a bloke that * coughed up pick 35 for 3 years ago whose stats have improved by only two possessions.
* want a first rounder for Fantasia, they wanted 7 plus 3/4 of our most exciting talented young players for a back pocket/half back flanker!!
Where am I isolating the utter garbage that s**tstain club is playing at?
Walk him to the draft, you think them having 6,7 and us gift wrapping up 8 is good business?
As I’ve already stated, he’s not worth 8 and the pick coming back better damned ****ing good or we’ve been played on a massive con job.
He won’t be responsible for winning us games, he’s a cog, is he a pick 8 cog?
Picks in the top ten are for elite talent, if you don’t agree then fine, but I disagree with you, Mexican standoff!

 

[FitzroyBlueBagger]

As much as we all hate the Pies, I just don't see Bucks as being that kind of operator.

Yeah completely, very very surprising if that was the case, thing is the club has very serious cap problems, their incredibly bad cap mismanagement has put them in such a ridiculous position that they will need too trade out at least a player maybe two they should not have lost, same backend deals as GWS are going to hurt them...

 

[Bamboo Harvester]

Also, I believe there is no way Essendon will try to trump us from splitting our pick by using a better pick to take the deal away from us. They might try to do their own deal so they can get Caldwell in, but that's not trumping us.

They would much prefer to use the Fantasia pick for Caldwell (it's okay for them to pay less after all), and retain #6, #7 and #8 in the draft for the optics. That's why they want #8 from us. It's a good launching pad and good PR.

And the point here being that * don't want to use picks 6 or 7 to trade with Geelong or Brissie or whoever. They'd be looking to use our pick 8 to trade with them so they can keep their higher picks, which is why they believe they can trump us if we start dealing with other clubs.

So it becomes a stalemate....* say to Austin 'you deal with another club and we'll gazump you before it happens, so cough up your pick and we'll give you some crumbs'.

I would hope that we could do that right back at them and start negotiating with multiple clubs. At the end of the day, you play one off against the other because * can't trade with them all, and list managers know that. Dodoro knows that. They all want to get deals done too and not get caught up in Dodoro's bullshit.

Say we offer pick 8 to Brisbane for 18 and 19, and give them 24 hours to respond because we have other clubs we're also dealing with....put it back on them....because unless * have a firm offer to these clubs, it's just all bluff and holding up other deals these clubs have on the table.

Although Dodoro wouldn't do that type of thing...would he.....

 

[norway blue]

 

[Blues90]

Let's be honest if over the last 2 years we gain Saad Jack Martin

21

Jack Martin

Age

29

Ht

186cm

Wt

82kg

Pos.

Fwd

Career

Season

Last 5

D

16.2

4star

K

10.0

4star

HB

6.3

4star

M

4.9

5star

T

3.7

5star

G

0.9

4star

D

14.9

4star

K

7.9

3star

HB

7.0

4star

M

4.3

4star

T

3.6

4star

G

1.1

5star

D

8.2

2star

K

4.6

2star

HB

3.6

3star

M

1.8

2star

T

2.0

4star

G

0.6

3star

and zac Williams and only lose pick 8 i rate that

 

[Brutalitops]

I am not the one that took this conversation to the draft, you did

If you have a look at my previous posts I have not once suggested taking the pick to the draft as a first option, that first option is to either split the pick or trade back.

Yes my 2nd option would be to take it to the draft, rather than spending that currency on a 26 year old, OOC, HB

You must be really desperate for success, to use that pick alone on Saad, what is the tipping point? Scum want a pick in the top 4 and ask us to create that scenario for them? Or pick 8 and our 2nd with a 3rd coming back?

What's the most you would give up?

Yes, I took it there when I initiated the conversation by asking you the question. It was a hypothetical which you have answered. Thats why I keep bringing you back to the point of where 2020 pick 8's value is.

The most I would pay is subjective, depending on your own values. I wouldnt straight swap pick 8 for Saad with *. I would however draft him with it. I would like to use pick 8 to obtain Saad for strengthening our 2021 draft hand. Thats the best value pick 8 delivers.

Splitting the pick is not something I would do. Its a pointless exercise which sure, "wins" on paper but what do we gain? Saad and an extremely speculative pick nearing pick 20. Dont see the point of it. I dont see the gain.

I wanna hear about those 6 kids that are going pick 8 or later.

 

[norway blue]

We have a $100,000 Cap to spend on the reserves side, maybe McCartin is for the reserve's?

If that meant Harry and Charlie on opposite wings . Oh

 

[an unbiased carlton man]

KPD with war wounds, not overly athletic and already undersized at 194cm.

You're kidding.

Yeah you’re right I’m kidding - we’re just running him through a medical for fun. Be a right laugh wouldn’t it guvnah?

 

[FitzroyBlueBagger]

Geelong won't do that. My point was if we want a lightning half back flanker, I'd sooner pay Pick 8 for Clark over Saad. The kid is crazy talented.

**** yeah ODN kid is a gun, halfback and wing kid is freakishly talented... I’ve voiced my opinion on Saad a very good player but would not be handing over pick8 for him pick15 is bang on imo...

 

[Jabba73]

KPD with war wounds, not overly athletic and already undersized at 194cm.

You're kidding.

But, but, but .... he is freeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeee

 

[jelly]

I hearing

Essendern: 29 & Walker
Melbourne: Brown
North: 25 & 50
Carlton: Saad

 

[RoyalParade]

Pick 8, yeah let’s just hand over our most valuable pick for a bloke that * coughed up pick 35 for 3 years ago whose stats have improved by only two possessions.
* want a first rounder for Fantasia, they wanted 7 plus 3/4 of our most exciting talented young players for a back pocket/half back flanker!!
Where am I isolating the utter garbage that sh*tstain club is playing at?
Walk him to the draft, you think them having 6,7 and us gift wrapping up 8 is good business?
As I’ve already stated, he’s not worth 8 and the pick coming back better damned ******* good or we’ve been played on a massive con job.
He won’t be responsible for winning us games, he’s a cog, is he a pick 8 cog?
Picks in the top ten are for elite talent, if you don’t agree then fine, but I disagree with you, Mexican standoff!

Your negative emotions re * are clouding your judgment.

Your not alone on this forum though .

 

[FitzroyBlueBagger]

Throw in a sweetener Clarke kid is an absolute jet make no mistake he’s a jet waiting for opportunity and fuel

No chance they let Clark go, not this year if so his going back to WA ‘freo’

 

[Skull Face]

Suns sign Saad until end of 2018.

2017 * poach contracted Saad for pick 22 (Blues also tried).

2020 * pass uncontracted Saad to the Blues for pick 8 minus change.

Correction * got him for pick 35 not 22

 

[Zuribagger]

So Carlton should not have recruited Diesel?


Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk

Dodo has done a good deal if he can buy a contracted Saad for pick 22 in 2017 and “sell” an uncontracted Saad for pick 8 (minus change) in 2020. Dodo also beat us to Saad in 2017. Saad would have been very useful in Doc’s absence.

Anyway the ship has pretty much sailed, Saad’s from a good Carlton family, seems to have a great work ethic and fills a need. Fingers crossed he stays injury free and has Simmo-like longevity.

Hopefully Austin can get single figure draft picks in the future when we are forced to part with uncontracted players of a similar type. Otherwise we should sack him and poach Dodo LOL

 

[BlueZombie]

I doubt the club was planning this exact scenario



No one is questioning if Saad improves us, but that is separate from currency you give up

EXACTLY.

 

[dumb]

paddy mccartin didn't exactly set the world on fire before his mounting concussions. some of those concussions he got while playing reserves, too.

there must be other speculative types we could pick up before mccartin. our own pat kerr

Pat Kerr

Age

26

Ht

197cm

Wt

97kg

Pos.

Fwd

Career

Season

Last 5

D

9.3

2star

K

7.0

3star

HB

2.3

2star

M

4.3

4star

T

0.8

3star

G

0.5

3star

No current season stats available

D

9.3

3star

K

7.0

3star

HB

2.3

3star

M

4.3

4star

T

0.8

3star

G

0.5

3star

, if he isn't already in the northern blues.

 

[BlueZombie]

I would have no qualms trading 8 for Saad and a second. We need to live in the now and play finals, not fascinate over a kid that’ll take 2-3 years to develop

8 for Saad and a 2nd is a whole lot different than 8 for Saad & 41 & having to put up with Dodo's gigantic sh*t-eating grin for god knows how long - knowing full well he screwed us on this. A late 1st is more than fair value for Saad.

 

[BlueZombie]

8 for Saad and a 2nd is a whole lot different than 8 for Saad & 41 & having to put up with Dodo's gigantic sh*t-eating grin for god knows how long - knowing full well he screwed us on this. A late 1st is more than fair value for Saad.

Dodo knows this - the weasel just wants to screw us.

 

[ferrisb]

Some posters are getting ready to throw Austin to the wolves and he hasn't even started his first trade period.

Oh, Carlton supporters. Never change...

 

[FitzroyBlueBagger]

Makes absolutely no sense we’d seek another tall forward



Sent from my iPhone using BigFooty.com

If you look at our reserves stocks and age demographic Nobby we’re going to need to draft another young KPF and KPD for development and list balance particularly with players we have on the last part of their career, right out a best firsts and reserves side should give you a clearer indication of the those spots along with another ruck/forward and small forwards... McCartin btw should not be in our plans imo wish him all the best seems a little risky...