Bluemour Melting Pot XXVI

[The Old Dark Navy's]

As per the Bluemour File OP, this is a thread for discussing Carlton related rumours.
http://www.bigfooty.com/forum/threads/bluemour-file.1085141/

Rumour posters should post their rumours in both threads for those that like just to read rumours and for those that like to have get lost in their rumour files.

Remember ... #Bluemour





Continued from here ...

Bluemour Melting Pot XXV

Continued here ... https://www.bigfooty.com/forum/threads/bluemour-melting-pot-xxvi.1250444/

www.bigfooty.com

Continued here:

Bluemour Melting Pot XXVII

As per the Bluemour File OP, this is a thread for discussing Carlton related rumours. http://www.bigfooty.com/forum/threads/bluemour-file.1085141/ Rumour posters should post their rumours in both threads for those that like just to read rumours and for those that like to have get lost in their...

www.bigfooty.com

 

[Blue Dimension]

Absolutely no way in hell should we be trading pick 8 for Saad unless a mid-late first rounder comes back our way.

He is 27, and we are still desperately in need of a quality mid and small forwards.

We need the currency to continue to acquire those players and make those moves.

 

[The Old Dark Navy's]

Some posters are getting ready to throw Austin to the wolves and he hasn't even started his first trade period.

Oh, Carlton supporters. Never change...

Nobody is getting ready to do that. Is it fair to comment on a trade and what the target is worth before it happens, based on supposed inside word?

Most haven't mentioned Austin by name. Most have been talking Carlton. We know one man isn't making the decisions. We are painfully aware Austin can be overridden.

 

[FitzroyBlueBagger]

There's a fraction too much friction,
There's a fraction too much friction, yeah,
Holding on to the bygone era,
Everybody shout ‘cause we're getting nearer,
There's a fraction too much friction.

That takes me back, geez can’t remember the last time I’ve even heard that song on the dial... Cheers.. Old... Well done ForbsB2...

 

[FitzroyBlueBagger]

Hang on, a bloke that 3 years in a row kicked 60 goals then he has 1 bad year and he is worth just a second round pick, meanwhile Daniher who only once has kicked 60 goals and hasn't done anything for 3 years gets pick 7 as compo and the bombers turned down 2 first round picks for him last year?

That really seems like it is only North so who cares,

North handling was premature and ordinary Macca cost them currency big time, pick 23’ish is about the best they will get...

 

[katmanblue]

Certainly has the talent.

Went no1 for a reason. Even if he was only a top 20 talent that year, still good for a free hit.

 

[AT97]

Never can have to many GGS players on the books.

 

[Blue_Fusion]

Let's be honest if over the last 2 years we gain Saad Jack Martin

21

Jack Martin

Age

29

Ht

186cm

Wt

82kg

Pos.

Fwd

Career

Season

Last 5

D

16.2

4star

K

10.0

4star

HB

6.3

4star

M

4.9

5star

T

3.7

5star

G

0.9

4star

D

14.9

4star

K

7.9

3star

HB

7.0

4star

M

4.3

4star

T

3.6

4star

G

1.1

5star

D

8.2

2star

K

4.6

2star

HB

3.6

3star

M

1.8

2star

T

2.0

4star

G

0.6

3star

and zac Williams and only lose pick 8 i rate that

Ok, I'll be honest. Jack Martin

21

Jack Martin

Age

29

Ht

186cm

Wt

82kg

Pos.

Fwd

Career

Season

Last 5

D

16.2

4star

K

10.0

4star

HB

6.3

4star

M

4.9

5star

T

3.7

5star

G

0.9

4star

D

14.9

4star

K

7.9

3star

HB

7.0

4star

M

4.3

4star

T

3.6

4star

G

1.1

5star

D

8.2

2star

K

4.6

2star

HB

3.6

3star

M

1.8

2star

T

2.0

4star

G

0.6

3star

and Zac Williams have nothing to do with trading for Saad.

 

[ParapMarkets]

If we have given him a medical, then perhaps we have looked at these things. I can't condemn the club on the basis of that rumour. You'd hope we'd do due diligence, not for our sake as the cost would be fairly negligible, but for the sake of Paddy himself.

His situation may have changed, but if you look over his concussions they were all from innocuous incidents. There wasn’t a brutal head class or a sickening moment. Unless he can withstand normal footy contact without suffering concussion symptoms he needs to stay away. I feel for him, but suffering through the rest of your life because of problems with your brain is nowhere near the same as having to deal with arthritic shoulders etc.

 

[FitzroyBlueBagger]

Great post TW.

Just one thing though, are you basing your comments of what you think Austin believes Saad is worth on the back of the last information by 43? I have yet to hear Austin discussing the trade

On another, what would these industry leaders suggest Saad is worth, if we held pick 15, rather than 8

Austin needs to get creative, trade pick 8 to to include getting back a late 1st and something else, rather than working with pick 8 as the main component of the Saad trade

Plenty of other interested buyers

That’s the key really isn’t it Arrow ‘IF’ we can split or manufacture the right draft range pick which we think his fairer price range is... Multiple ways to do it, but can we get it done? The most obvious seem too be the obvious choices with Cats GWS Dogs BRIS the main players atm but hopefully something from left field might eventuate... Get the feeling a CARL/GWS/WBD combination could unlock things...

 

[Hands On]

Suns sign Saad until end of 2018.

2017 * poach contracted Saad for pick 22 (Blues also tried).

2020 * pass uncontracted Saad to the Blues for pick 8 minus change.

Better than investing in real estate. DODO . Man should be selling Fake Rolex Watches at Vic Market!!!

 

[bmaurizio]

His situation may have changed, but if you look over his concussions they were all from innocuous incidents. There wasn’t a brutal head class or a sickening moment. Unless he can withstand normal footy contact without suffering concussion symptoms he needs to stay away. I feel for him, but suffering through the rest of your life because of problems with your brain is nowhere near the same as having to deal with arthritic shoulders etc.

Obviously a player‘s overall health, especially mental are first and foremost. the AFL would not compromise a player. Paddy loves footy, wants to play and if a club gives him the opportunity, show duty of care doing the due diligence then he should go for it, he’s talented no doubt, a step at the time.

 

[FitzroyBlueBagger]

My physio mate told me that Saad was at the club today. Not sure if it was to try to move forward with a solution or just a simple visit to the shop..can you confirm or deny?

Thanks

$500 vouchers?

 

[ParapMarkets]

One player isn't that crucial to success

In fairness, you could say the exact same thing about whoever we may have recruited with pick 8.
Pick 8 is too high for Saad, but I think we need to be mindful that this will be a much more speculative draft than others and as such draft picks aren’t worth as much.

 

[FitzroyBlueBagger]

In a ideal world McGovern for sadd
Dow for there pick 10
Package 8 & 10 for Oliver or move up in the draft

Dow ain’t going anywhere all due respect not happening take it too the bank,,,

 

[FitzroyBlueBagger]

It's all gravy baby.

Paul Kelly..

 

[ParapMarkets]

Nobody is getting ready to do that. Is it fair to comment on a trade and what the target is worth before it happens, based on supposed inside word?

Most haven't mentioned Austin by name. Most have been talking Carlton. We know one man isn't making the decisions. We are painfully aware Austin can be overridden.

I think he is on a hiding to nothing this trade period personally. I think there are many who are more interested in “winning” the trade above anything else and it’s clouding their judgement, especially so given the team we are trading with. We need to be able to make Essendon a fair offer and unfortunately the Daniher compo has made that more difficult. I’m not convinced a very late first round pick gets the job done in this particular draft.

SOS, unless he is being vindictive, would apparently happily trade pick 8 with nothing coming back if he was in Austin’s shoes.

 

[The Old Dark Navy's]

I think he is on a hiding to nothing this trade period personally. I think there are many who are more interested in “winning” the trade above anything else and it’s clouding their judgement, especially so given the team we are trading with. We need to be able to make Essendon a fair offer and unfortunately the Daniher compo has made that more difficult. I’m not convinced a very late first round pick gets the job done in this particular draft.

SOS, unless he is being vindictive, would apparently happily trade pick 8 with nothing coming back if he was in Austin’s shoes.

Nobody wants to win the trade. We just don't want to overpay. This has been stated over and over.

 

[FitzroyBlueBagger]

I think he is on a hiding to nothing this trade period personally. I think there are many who are more interested in “winning” the trade above anything else and it’s clouding their judgement, especially so given the team we are trading with. We need to be able to make Essendon a fair offer and unfortunately the Daniher compo has made that more difficult. I’m not convinced a very late first round pick gets the job done in this particular draft.

SOS, unless he is being vindictive, would apparently happily trade pick 8 with nothing coming back if he was in Austin’s shoes.

Agree his going to be judged big time either way, hopefully fairly..
Only my opinion but there’s been a good amount on here that aren’t worried at all about winning the trade, maybe because I’m one of the majority that have the option that handing over directly pick 8 to them is way too high even though he’s a very good running half back on top of his well paid contract... The media crap and reports of what they ‘***’ want i couldn’t give a shit about, I’m well aware of us targeting him in and being upfront, committed with him to getting him across the line and into the club, but we need too stand our ground and act on our our list management elevations, fair value without being dictated by certain clubs who are difficult and ridiculous with their requests... SOS’s statements take with a grain of salt, does not mean bugger all we all know if he was incharge pick8 would not be directly going to them, his opinion in the media means nothing to us...

 

[OldBlueFan]

Some posters are getting ready to throw Austin to the wolves and he hasn't even started his first trade period.

Oh, Carlton supporters. Never change...

Not sure if you've skipped a few pages, given the rate at which this thread gets posts, but ...

There has been a lot of work done by Carlton, Saad and his management team to talk sense into the Saad deal. They’ve talked it down from 8 + (one of our under 22 year old first rounders) to working around us getting some change from Pick 8.
It’s at a tricky impasse at the moment. Daniher getting band 1 compo means any offer we make to split our pick 8 with Geelong or Brisbane can now be trumped by Essendon. The club is acutely aware of how negotiations went with Papley and Martin last year, and there is growing sentiment that when you convince a player to come, you need to make sure it happens smoothly, otherwise there are fears players and managers won’t want to work with us in the future.
As it stands the deal will have pick 8 going to the bombers with change yet to be agreed upon.

Seems to be a bit of misunderstanding of my previous comment.

The club had no intention of getting ‘bent over’. The conversations surround what is a break even point from our perspective that we are happy with the levels we’ve paid. Obviously there is a massive discrepancy on here as to what Saads worth is.

Most people internally rate him as a mid-late first rounder. Our pick 8 will be minimum pick 10, potentially 11 come draft night. If we split with Brisbane, pick 17 will be mid 20s. No matter what we think here, this will not get the deal done.
So it comes down to at what point are you jeopardizing the improvement of the team, to win the trade.

If we pay 8 and third rounder for Saad and a 2nd, that is good value, as the second is a pick we can use in trade or draft.
If we don’t want to pay more than 8 and get Saad and a 3rd. Are we likely to use the 3rd round pick or will we be able to trade it for good return? With list sizes likely dropping by 2 and an incredibly compromised draft, probably not.

We can threaten the PSD or ND all we want, but realistically, trading in such poor faith hurts our brand more than many imagine. The worst part of this is the weeks and weeks of subconsciously devaluing Saad by many of our supporter base who are transfixed on winning a trade battle with Dodo rather than improving our side.

As I said at the start, the clubs not just going to get bent over for the sake of it, but we will not be walking away from the trade.

Not sure how you interpret this, but it comes off as pretty weak to me, and to many others it would seem. Sounds like the club are just rationalising being bent over and providing mealy-mouthed explanations for it.

Getting "some" change.
Having "fears".
Raising NGA bids as though they mean something.
Telling us 8 + a 3rd with a 2nd (that the 'stains don't even have) coming back is "good value".
Worried about hurting our "brand" (wonder where that's coming from?)

At the same time, as ODN has said, this is looking like a whole-of-club thing, not just Austin. But if it costs us the currency to go after a true A-grader in this or the next trading period, I bet I know who'll be left holding baby.

 

[KnobHead]

Nobody wants to win the trade. We just don't want to overpay. This has been stated over and over.

But what does ‘overpay’ actually mean in trading?

Trading is not like retail, picking a product with a set price and paying that price. Trading is bargaining.

A player’s worth is fluid, depending on the club seeking his services and what the other club seeks in return. Saad may have higher value to a club like carlton, than, say, Gold Coast. Hence, we’re willing to pay more.

And the club wanting to buy has to come up with the pick. Pick 8 may be too high for a player, but if you’ve only pick is pick 8, what do you do? You can either walk away, try and trade pick 8 for multiple lower picks and send one on to Essendon, or trade pick 8 with something else coming back.

So, if pick 8 is too much, do we walk away from the Saad trade?



On iPad using BigFooty.com mobile app

 

[swuzzlebubble]

So, if pick 8 is too much, do we walk away from the Saad trade?

Option B or C

 

[chelseacarlton]

Your negative emotions re * are clouding your judgment.

Your not alone on this forum though .

Your strawman is not even worth the time you invested in creating it in your mind and then posting it, here have a match friend, I’ll hold your hand as we watch it burn to the ground?!

You’ll need to do better than that with me I’m afraid, I might on occasion play the joker, but I’m nobodies ****ing fool.
Now again, for the hundredth time, on not only this page but many other parts of this site, Adam Saad

42

Adam Saad

Age

30

Ht

178cm

Wt

79kg

Pos.

Def

Career

Season

Last 5

D

17.5

4star

K

10.0

4star

HB

7.5

5star

M

3.0

3star

T

2.7

4star

MG

349.1

5star

D

20.7

5star

K

12.0

5star

HB

8.7

4star

M

3.3

3star

T

2.4

3star

MG

388.3

5star

D

17.6

5star

K

10.4

4star

HB

7.2

5star

M

4.2

4star

T

1.2

3star

is not worth pick 8, never was, never ****ing will be, ever, if it ain’t a first rounder coming back, “compelling compensation”, tell **** face dodo, “I’m playing for my job for reals this time” to **** off, a bloke that has been at their club for the entirety of the 21st Century for what, 2 finals appearances or something for how many wins?

This bloke thinks he’s a winner, SOS put together a better list at two ****ing clubs in half the time he’s been there, **** ‘em, give them or any other club for that matter, nothing if they believe they are dictating terms just to be a dick or prognosticating an arrangement at the behest of my club in order to grandstand and flagellate or have others do it for them via their media buddies, whether for click bait or revenue etc.

This is about strengthening our club not just for one crack at a finals win like dodo hasn’t, this is about continued and sustained success, 17, 18, 19, 20.

I don’t want to win a final, I want battering ram the entire ****ing competition.
I’m a chess player, I want to destroy your entire kingdom before my queen slits your kings throat on his throne.
We play to have not one win, but put more than one piece(Saad) in place before we do it.

Pick 8 is a queen piece, it’s elite!

 

[BluesTragic]

Nobody is getting ready to do that. Is it fair to comment on a trade and what the target is worth before it happens, based on supposed inside word?

Most haven't mentioned Austin by name. Most have been talking Carlton. We know one man isn't making the decisions. We are painfully aware Austin can be overridden.

This is correct. The only thing I’m gonna add is that after last year’s sh1t show by Dodo bird that effectively cost us Papley we owe * nothing in the way of trading in good faith or a fair deal for Saad.
Nick, everyone’s caps are full to bursting other than North...nobody will take Saad in the draft if he doesn’t wanna go there. Be strong please team. Use pick 8 wisely, we will need it’s currency next year

 

[HARKER]

Any chance barass can drop a simple "pick 8 isn't going out for Saad" here today and order will be restored.

Fun starts tomorrow.

 

[CFCtragic]

In a sh*t side. Let's not pretend he would have gotten top 4 bnf at Richmond or Geelong.

Neither would Saad