Bluemour Melting Pot XXVI

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As per the Bluemour File OP, this is a thread for discussing Carlton related rumours.
http://www.bigfooty.com/forum/threads/bluemour-file.1085141/

Rumour posters should post their rumours in both threads for those that like just to read rumours and for those that like to have get lost in their rumour files.

Remember ... #Bluemour





Continued from here ...

Bluemour Melting Pot XXV

Continued here ... https://www.bigfooty.com/forum/threads/bluemour-melting-pot-xxvi.1250444/
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Continued here:

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Bluemour Melting Pot XXVII

As per the Bluemour File OP, this is a thread for discussing Carlton related rumours. http://www.bigfooty.com/forum/threads/bluemour-file.1085141/ Rumour posters should post their rumours in both threads for those that like just to read rumours and for those that like to have get lost in their...
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JustaBattler said:
Austin and Co are getting tested - like all noobies they might fear standing up to experienced bully they might have a bully standing over their shoulders wanting some 'action' the type of bully who doesn't mind overspending if it helps him meet his KPI's


- all they have to do is man up and Redfern Kiss the tossa from Essendone.
Click to expand...
Austin walks into meeting with Dodo, greetings are exchanged

Austin: Need to know what you are asking for the OOC player that has nominated us as his club of choice. We know we can use that type of player, we also know what they are worth when they are trouble makers, thanks for the heads up on that. What is your best asking price?

Dodo: Well young fella, been in this game for a while, you get to know the real worth of players with experience. This bloke has placed highly in our B&F for years and we want a fair deal. Forget what we have said in the media, it is just a bit of joking around with the new blokes and a shot across the bow of other players who might be looking for a pay rise. We don't really want pick 8 and Sam Walsh, we know that is ridiculous. What we need is a player that will make a difference to our side in the same way Saad will improve yours, a player like Harry McKay for example. Of course, we could swap some late picks to make it look good for you given this is your first big trade.

Austin: A player like Harry or are you asking for Harry?

Dodo: Asking.

Austin:

Dodo: If you can only do picks, it is 8 and your second for Saad and our third.

Austin looks over list of available players and draft picks on notepad, grimaces, then stands up.

Austin: Sorry to have wasted your time Mr Dodo. Unfortunately we are very new at this game and don't have the time or assets to try and get close to your request when there are so many other deals we are working on. I will get slaughtered if I don't get something done when we have offers from players at 7 other clubs. Have taken the liberty of setting aside an appointment for you 45 minutes prior to the lodgement deadline where we can review any other offers you care to make with whatever assets we still hold at that time. Enjoy your trade week.

Austin walks out
 
J-dog said:
If we trade our first this year and no first comes back, we won't be able to trade 21 and 22 firsts for a gun mid next year. And we don't want to wreck our cap walking players to the draft.

So really, our only option is to split the pick and try to get a 20 first and a 21 first.
The gamble is if Ess take it (would be particularly bad trading if they didn't), and try to get a gun to choose us this year and use the 2x21 firsts to do it, otherwise have a dip next year with said currency.

There is no other option.
Do it now Blues, and let Dodo and the Ess heirarchy stew on what to do with Saad and our late first until the end of trade week. We will still have time to move on another target in the meantime.

There is no other choice.
Click to expand...
Collingwood perfectly placed for this trade.
 

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JustaBattler said:
A lot of discussion is ignoring the actual statements from relevant parties out there in teh public domain...

Statement #1 came from Saad's own management- if Essendone are unwilling to act fairly - there is always the PSD route... card was played by teh player's management and put out to the press weeks ago...

Statement #2 came out from Essendone - how Saad was not a team player etc etc

shortly afterwards the Essendone Director of Football or whatever- was fired.

Essendone actually have a weak hand - the only pressure on Carlton to give more than is fair is Carlton conjuring and that is based on the reverse error of SOS's last year - which was waiting tow weeks for a no on Papley huge error by SOS - this year the error was premature announcement before all the ducks were actually lined up...

All these pages and pages of nuff nuffery mostly igmnoring the only facts on the public reccord.
Click to expand...
Fully aware, which is why we need to at least see what they are offering/asking for. Asking players to walk to the PSD should be a last resort, not an opening gambit. Don't need to prove we are not bluffing, have already done it.

We hold all the cards here, * are simply representing they have something they don't to try and buy the pot. No point going all in and making them fold if you can milk them of half their stack and hurt them badly for future hands. Teaches everyone to play nice at the table.
 
J-dog said:
If we trade our first this year and no first comes back, we won't be able to trade 21 and 22 firsts for a gun mid next year. And we don't want to wreck our cap walking players to the draft.

So really, our only option is to split the pick and try to get a 20 first and a 21 first.
The gamble is if Ess take it (would be particularly bad trading if they didn't), and try to get a gun to choose us this year and use the 2x21 firsts to do it, otherwise have a dip next year with said currency.

There is no other option.
Do it now Blues, and let Dodo and the Ess heirarchy stew on what to do with Saad and our late first until the end of trade week. We will still have time to move on another target in the meantime.

There is no other choice.
Click to expand...
Not 100% sure about that J-dog.

The AFL website states "Under the AFL's future trading rules clubs must use two first-round picks at the NAB AFL Draft over a rolling four-year period to ensure they aren't able to swap selections and trade themselves into long-term list strife."

www.afl.com.au

Hands tied: Why two big Vic clubs can't trade first pick

The clubs will both need to take a first-round pick to this year's NAB AFL Draft under League rules
www.afl.com.au www.afl.com.au
.

We used two first round picks in 2019 on Kemp and Philp....so technically we should be able to trade 2020, 2021 and 2022 firsts.

Although who the **** knows how the AFL interpret these rules.
 
Bamboo Harvester said:
Not 100% sure about that J-dog.

The AFL website states "Under the AFL's future trading rules clubs must use two first-round picks at the NAB AFL Draft over a rolling four-year period to ensure they aren't able to swap selections and trade themselves into long-term list strife."

www.afl.com.au

Hands tied: Why two big Vic clubs can't trade first pick

The clubs will both need to take a first-round pick to this year's NAB AFL Draft under League rules
www.afl.com.au www.afl.com.au
.

We used two first round picks in 2019 on Kemp and Philp....so technically we should be able to trade 2020, 2021 and 2022 firsts.

Although who the **** knows how the AFL interpret these rules.
Click to expand...
Essendon haven't drafted a 1st since 2016.
 
RPCB said:
I am confused. Don’t Adelaide have Pick 1 in the PSD?
Click to expand...
Already committed to using it to keep Bryce Gibbs at the club, pretty sure
 
We keeping quiet -- we want Oliver if not happening we will take treloar end up collingwood first next year and saad .. you don't keep Murphy betts these last years unless you want to go full tilt .. treloar kicking it long quick to 202cm h McKay not to bad ..
 
Jimmyonesix said:
We keeping quiet -- we want Oliver if not happening we will take treloar end up collingwood first next year and saad .. you don't keep Murphy betts these last years unless you want to go full tilt .. treloar kicking it long quick to 202cm h McKay not to bad ..
Click to expand...
If that happens, he was aiming for Casboult and missed him by 30 metres
 
Jabba73 said:
Austin walks into meeting with Dodo, greetings are exchanged

Austin: Need to know what you are asking for the OOC player that has nominated us as his club of choice. We know we can use that type of player, we also know what they are worth when they are trouble makers, thanks for the heads up on that. What is your best asking price?

Dodo: Well young fella, been in this game for a while, you get to know the real worth of players with experience. This bloke has placed highly in our B&F for years and we want a fair deal. Forget what we have said in the media, it is just a bit of joking around with the new blokes and a shot across the bow of other players who might be looking for a pay rise. We don't really want pick 8 and Sam Walsh, we know that is ridiculous. What we need is a player that will make a difference to our side in the same way Saad will improve yours, a player like Harry McKay for example. Of course, we could swap some late picks to make it look good for you given this is your first big trade.

Austin: A player like Harry or are you asking for Harry?

Dodo: Asking.

Austin:

Dodo: If you can only do picks, it is 8 and your second for Saad and our third.

Austin looks over list of available players and draft picks on notepad, grimaces, then stands up.

Austin: Sorry to have wasted your time Mr Dodo. Unfortunately we are very new at this game and don't have the time or assets to try and get close to your request when there are so many other deals we are working on. I will get slaughtered if I don't get something done when we have offers from players at 7 other clubs. Have taken the liberty of setting aside an appointment for you 45 minutes prior to the lodgement deadline where we can review any other offers you care to make with whatever assets we still hold at that time. Enjoy your trade week.

Austin walks out
Click to expand...

I dont agree that using the PSD when faced with strong arm belligerence is a bad indicator to agents and players in future.

If this kind of thought was really relevant as oppossed to being percieved to be relevant - despite best endeavours on our part

then why would ANY player wish to go to Essendone - knowing how THEY treat exiting players?

NO - the reality is that players shift for more opportunity - where they can get it and or more cashola.

the being a good citizen and just paying whatever to be seen to be a nice good citizen in a land which actually doesn't exist is a recipe for overpaying - always.

this whole scenrio is testing the new regime and its agenda.

If pick8 goes to Essendone for a HBF or next year's first (even) it will be a very bad use of resources as far as list goes - maybe an ok use if marketing is the #1 priority.

Anyway this is my view- I can see the arguments for the whole "just pay the price asked " perspective and lets move on...

SOS pretty much hung himself over the botched Papley trade fiasco last year today btw - HE had committed to Papley and said that therefore 'we' didnt have the collateral to emntertain Wine's management approach to us...I called teh disaster last year really pizzed me off that failed papley trade and missing other really good players waiting waiting waiting for a deal that was NEVER on...dodoro kicked SOS in the nuts over that one and Carlton was the loser

WHAT a dissaster of a miss for Carlton - allowing Doodo to dictate time and terms and forcing us to wave a genuine gun like Wines away....what an absolute DISASTER - especially in the context of papley (thsi year) happy to stay on at Sydney- what happened to HIS conmmitment to Carlton ???

nahh not a buyer at all - not for one second that we owe a player anything except best endeavours - Club first - always.



Just mu 2cents as they say.
 
Zlatan said:
I’m as anti-dodo as anyone here but we need to remember that we pursued Saad. We knew Dodo was the list manager and what was about to happen re: his unrealistic demands.

We saw the barking dog foaming at the mouth, jumped the fence anyway and now we shouldn’t complain if we get bitten.

Next time, focus on players from the other 16 clubs.
Click to expand...
This continued gnashing of teeth is bewildering to me. The other 16 clubs don’t have between them many options better than Saad.

No one thinks Saad is worth 8 alone. And won’t happen. Noone thinks he’s worth outside first round.

I bet we do the deal and get Bonbers second next year back.
 

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Zlatan said:
Valid points. All I’m saying is we can jump up and down about Dodo all we want, but we chose to engage.

In a sense, we’ve brought the madness upon ourselves.
Click to expand...
But what’s the madness? Where is the hysteria? Dodo was very measured today. He implied he would take our future first. Should be a pick in the teens. Seems fair to me.

It feels like you’re trying to say “because the Bombers are hard to deal with we shoulnt Have bothered with Saad.

Bet you’ll be glad we DID next year.
 
JustaBattler said:
I dont agree that using the PSD when faced with strong arm belligerence is a bad indicator to agents and players in future.

If this kind of thought was really relevant as oppossed to being percieved to be relevant - despite best endeavours on our part

then why would ANY player wish to go to Essendone - knowing how THEY treat exiting players?

NO - the reality is that players shift for more opportunity - where they can get it and or more cashola.

the being a good citizen and just paying whatever to be seen to be a nice good citizen in a land which actually doesn't exist is a recipe for overpaying - always.

this whole scenrio is testing the new regime and its agenda.

If pick8 goes to Essendone for a HBF or next year's first (even) it will be a very bad use of resources as far as list goes - maybe an ok use if marketing is the #1 priority.

Anyway this is my view- I can see the arguments for the whole "just pay the price asked " perspective and lets move on...

SOS pretty much hung himself over the botched Papley trade fiasco last year today btw - HE had committed to Papley and said that therefore 'we' didnt have the collateral to emntertain Wine's management approach to us...I called teh disaster last year really pizzed me off that failed papley trade and missing other really good players waiting waiting waiting for a deal that was NEVER on...dodoro kicked SOS in the nuts over that one and Carlton was the loser

WHAT a dissaster of a miss for Carlton - allowing Doodo to dictate time and terms and forcing us to wave a genuine gun like Wines away....what an absolute DISASTER - especially in the context of papley (thsi year) happy to stay on at Sydney- what happened to HIS conmmitment to Carlton ???

nahh not a buyer at all - not for one second that we owe a player anything except best endeavours - Club first - always.



Just mu 2cents as they say.
Click to expand...
Agree we ****ed up by tying our deal to one including Dodo as a party to it. Let's not do that again any time soon.

Also hope we keep a record of what the peanut at * is asking for Saad and if we cannot reach a deal, hope we make it very public how unreasonable he was by letting it slip that "as a club, there was no way we could part with pick 8 and Sam Walsh for Saad, as it would defeat the purpose of bringing him into the club to win finals" or something similar.

Would not spend more than 30 minutes with Dodo on the proposed trade, keep a running timer like a chess game and smack it every time he starts talking, until he stops. Walk away when the time is up and get the rest of the list sorted out.
 
Jed Anderson would be great per the rumour thread. . Maybe a player swap or Upgrade their 11 to 8 with players involved. JSOS maybe, if that’s untenable now. Add MCGovern in for Polec and some payment. Polson may be off interest.

Ok, it’s late, time to go count sheep. Good luck tomorrow. 🐑 zzzz 🐑 zzzz 🐑 zzzz 🐑 zzzz 🐑 zz.....
 
windows1 said:
Fisher. Working hard on it.
Click to expand...
He has got the small bit sorted, now to work on the forward part ...

If he can kick 4 goals in a match, might be worth persisting with in that role.
 
JustaBattler said:
I dont agree that using the PSD when faced with strong arm belligerence is a bad indicator to agents and players in future.

If this kind of thought was really relevant as oppossed to being percieved to be relevant - despite best endeavours on our part

then why would ANY player wish to go to Essendone - knowing how THEY treat exiting players?

NO - the reality is that players shift for more opportunity - where they can get it and or more cashola.

the being a good citizen and just paying whatever to be seen to be a nice good citizen in a land which actually doesn't exist is a recipe for overpaying - always.

this whole scenrio is testing the new regime and its agenda.

If pick8 goes to Essendone for a HBF or next year's first (even) it will be a very bad use of resources as far as list goes - maybe an ok use if marketing is the #1 priority.

Anyway this is my view- I can see the arguments for the whole "just pay the price asked " perspective and lets move on...

SOS pretty much hung himself over the botched Papley trade fiasco last year today btw - HE had committed to Papley and said that therefore 'we' didnt have the collateral to emntertain Wine's management approach to us...I called teh disaster last year really pizzed me off that failed papley trade and missing other really good players waiting waiting waiting for a deal that was NEVER on...dodoro kicked SOS in the nuts over that one and Carlton was the loser

WHAT a dissaster of a miss for Carlton - allowing Doodo to dictate time and terms and forcing us to wave a genuine gun like Wines away....what an absolute DISASTER - especially in the context of papley (thsi year) happy to stay on at Sydney- what happened to HIS conmmitment to Carlton ???

nahh not a buyer at all - not for one second that we owe a player anything except best endeavours - Club first - always.



Just mu 2cents as they say.
Click to expand...
The Saints had a first year list manager last year who just completely nailed it. When Freo refused their offer for pick 6 for Hill, rather than sitting on his hands, he just said "**** you", went ahead and split the pick with GWS becuase they had other good players waiting in the wings they were trading for.

AND they ended up getting Hill anyway of course because Freo folded, as well as ALL their other trade prospects.

AND this year they just nailed a free agent by threatening to go to the PSD if the Cows matched. Done deal.

I'm not sure if I've read anywhere that they are too difficult to deal with, or no list manager wants to deal with them now, and that no player will want to go there in the future.

There has never been any goodwill between us and Essendone....ever...so why would we even entertain the prospect of being the 'nice guys' in a trade with their strong arm list manager when they have a piss weak hand to play with?
 
branedotorg said:
Whelmed at Jed Anderson. Good tackler, high effort but he's pretty small (Marc Murphy sized) and not great with the ball.
Click to expand...

Size isn't a huge issue if you are hard at it. We'd take Gresham regardless of size for instance. I don't mind the idea of some toughness around the clinches. He'll definitely block for Cripps.
 
Totally agree with this Jab. There’s a lot of talent on the table this trade period, much of it going cheap.

JustaBattler said:
WHAT a dissaster of a miss for Carlton - allowing Doodo to dictate time and terms and forcing us to wave a genuine gun like Wines away....what an absolute DISASTER - especially in the context of papley (thsi year) happy to stay on at Sydney- what happened to HIS conmmitment to Carlton ???

nahh not a buyer at all - not for one second that we owe a player anything except best endeavours - Club first - always.
Click to expand...

Media parties suggesting we are committed etc are simply trying to tie our hands and deliver us up to Dodo.
 
branedotorg said:
Whelmed at Jed Anderson. Good tackler, high effort but he's pretty small (Marc Murphy sized) and not great with the ball.
Click to expand...

This could be a description of Ed Curnow as well, and he's been one of our best and most consistent players for the last 5 or so seasons. Would be rapt with him as he's a perfect Ed replacement.

Also, pretty sure I suggested him as a left-field option here last year and got told he's no good. The difference a year can make.
 
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