Bluemour Melting Pot XXXI - Feeling Hot, Hot, Hot! 🔥 🔥 🔥

[Jorge]

The media are setting the agenda. That is fine. And it is arguable that Sayers had held the same line the whole way. However, how and why are Liddle and Lloyd on the coaching panel. That I cannot get my head around.

They can’t not be on the panel whilst they’re still in their roles though can they?

 

[SkyhorseTamer]

Caro did call it on FC... she said she thinks he's trying to run it like a business...

Pretty meaningless statement though. It is a business

 

[Gavstar]

We have a women's footy team don't forget and a good proportion of our members and fans are women and girls.

Again what has Ross done that a bit of PR couldn’t overcome. I’m sure he’d be willing to participate in some additional training to bring him up to the exacting standards of the footy club.

 

[ferrisb]

It’s not the primary purpose of the football club. Players do many things that damage the image of the club and are rarely sacked.

The more important question is why has domestic violence been conflated with Ross Lyon and by whom? Whose patch would benefit.

If he did what Elijah Taylor did to his girlfriend fair enough.

I don't think we know for a fact that Lyon was rejected because of harassment concerns. It is simply a theory.... and right now, the BF Blues board is jumping at shadows. And jumping so high, it wouldn't dream of sharing an olympic gold medal.

The poster that I quoted lambasted the existence of the Carlton Respects campaign, full stop. Not specifically its relationship to LyonGate. That's what I took offence to.

 

[StandByyourMan]

They can’t not be on the panel whilst they’re still in their roles though can they?

Good question. I don't know. But why not? We can head hunt a coach, why can't we set up a panel independent of those two persons?

 

[Beast__Mode]

You don’t just hire someone without an interview process.

Yes you can headhunt them, but the expectation would be they need to present their plan for the team, no matter how qualified they think they are.

Says more about Lyon this news than Carlton.


Sent from my iPhone using BigFooty.com

100% this.

Firstly there’s a difference between a process to determine if a person can coach, and activity to understand whether a person’s appointment is going to cause, or have the potential to cause, reputational harm. Lyon would sail through the first activity, so why is he worried about that?

if Lyon is put off by the thought of needing to give the maximum amount of clarity - legally permitted - around circumstances of his time in, and departure from Fremantle and St Kilda, he can’t possibly believe he has any right, regardless of any representation made to him, to coach the Carlton Football Club.

I say this because it’s ultimately the club that will bear the brunt of external questions, insinuations on these topics. It’s the club that will need to answer how hiring Lyon supports Carlton Respects. And it shows a complete lack of respect from Lyon towards both the club and anyone involved in both the coaching search and a leadership position in the club that he expects to be hired without giving the organisation and leaders within it both the comfort and context to support him and the club in navigating that environment.

Lyon the coach I would be happy to have, I think the discipline and accountability he brings are exactly what this group needs right now. But this episode is a bright red flag on Lyon the individual and the club is better off moving forward without him.

 

[DamianBis]

Caro did call it on FC... she said she thinks he's trying to run it like a business...

Her criticism(or more specifically what she focused on) was laughable though

Acting like Presenting feedback to staff is "running it like a consultancy/accounting firm"



Sent from my CPH2145 using Tapatalk

 

[swuzzlebubble]

Again what has Ross done that a bit of PR couldn’t overcome. I’m sure he’d be willing to participate in some additional training to bring him up to the exacting standards of the footy club.

If the background chats with former players and assistants didn't shed him in a favourable light that may have compounded the hesitation.

 

[Healer]

The pile on here is ridiculous. Sayers has set about to right the good ship Carlton. He is obviously naive to the mechanics of the largely incestuous environment that is AFL, with everything tempered by journos happy to create mischief through half truths or blatant fabrication. Add that to the increasing number of former players, officials and journos wanting to extend or relive their short lived time in the limelight and this is the source of the apparent cluster**** taking place.

The only real mistake Sayers has made is to work innocently towards an environment where he and the board can move quickly once the essential dominos fall. It has been reported in the media and by our various posters with a degree of inside info that he has contracted pretty much anyone who may be a target to fill a role. Either administrators or assistant and/or former have been contacted to identify their availability and interest in a possible role with the club. I don’t believe his intent was ever to make any appointment without a process from the board or senior officials. The reaction to the withdrawal of Lyon is ludicrous. Sure, in terms of experienced coaches Clarkson and Lyon (along with Roos) are the highest profile in the business. Clearly Lyon thought his time was up and had resigned himself to maintaining relevance with his media presence. An opportunity seemed to present piquing his interest, and seemingly offering a path back to the big time. We can only guess at the level of the skeletons in his closet with only bits and pieces being public knowledge. It would seem Lyon responded positively and eagerly to the overtures from Sayers and with Clarko seemingly out of the race viewed the position as his, like many in the media and the public.

Sayers clearly did not have the mandate to appoint Lyon directly even if he had any desire to do so. This in no way should be assumed. By putting a process in place with a purpose formed committee, there was no way Lyon could avoid certain levels of scrutiny so hastily withdrew, seemingly resigned to the fact he would not survive a significant level of scrutiny.

There is enough information available to us to suggest Liddle and Lloyd are likely in the “dead man walking” category. Clearly Sayers and the board are utilising their services pending availability of replacements and perhaps to mercifully minimise any professional blowback to those individuals. Allowing for a lower key ”career move” as opposed to a summary sacking would seem kind to these officials. Unfortunately it is likely that rather than carry out their tasks to the best of their abilities, one or both are taking any opportunity they have to lob grenades at management. Things are escalating, but I for one have not lost faith in Sayers. He has shown admirable courage and intent to remove any toxic influences from the management and has my support. It is not prudent to dump both CEO and Head of Football when we are working through list management decisions. There is some logic to retaining this pair pending replacements.

The latest revelations and the determination of the media to destabilise the club have serious ramifications around player retention and recruitment and need to be addressed. I would defy any individual posting garbage on our board to have the skill set to seamlessly manage such a circumstance within an organisation requiring obvious levels of corporate governance, and under such public scrutiny. I really hope all of the stirrers driving their own little agendas would back off unless they have something relevant and beneficial to add to the discussion.

How about we Carlton supporters actually support Carlton…………..

Spot on Coona.
Rational and realistic.

 

[DEliades]

The dream is clarko but I’d be looking at Yze.

 

[Pentatonic Flat Fifth]

I’ll tell you this straight up; when I was approached a year ago by a CEO to change employers and head up the relevant dept, they already knew who I was, my previous experience, skills and people who would act as referees.

The minute I heard “multi-stage interview process” I told them I wasn’t interested.

This is 100% completely normal in any occupation and don’t be surprised when no experienced coach wants to go through the same nonsense.

NO coach would be hired without going through the process and no CEO would be hired without going through it either - you weren't hired.

The idea that anyone would walk into a CEO position or senior coaching position without going through the process is honestly not really worth even discussing, its just not remotely plausible.

Maybe at some concrete factory in sunshine - or the Toogarook under 14 brown division.

 

[Gavstar]

Spot on Coona.
Rational and realistic.

Sayers will be judged on whether he lands the “best experienced” coach

The panel process is now unlikely to give that outcome.

 

[tarczonandjane]

For what it’s worth, Damien Barrett gets the boots stuck into Ross Lyon rather than us about all of this in his AFL website puff piece today. And he usually takes every opportunity to have a shot at us when he can. He basically says, it was a strange campaign from Ross.

And yes, I know it’s Damien Barrett. But people seem to be quoting everybody else they can in the media regardless of their bona fides (to throw a favourite David Parkin comment in).

 

[BuxbaumBixby]

The pile on here is ridiculous. Sayers has set about to right the good ship Carlton. He is obviously naive to the mechanics of the largely incestuous environment that is AFL, with everything tempered by journos happy to create mischief through half truths or blatant fabrication. Add that to the increasing number of former players, officials and journos wanting to extend or relive their short lived time in the limelight and this is the source of the apparent cluster**** taking place.

The only real mistake Sayers has made is to work innocently towards an environment where he and the board can move quickly once the essential dominos fall. It has been reported in the media and by our various posters with a degree of inside info that he has contracted pretty much anyone who may be a target to fill a role. Either administrators or assistant and/or former have been contacted to identify their availability and interest in a possible role with the club. I don’t believe his intent was ever to make any appointment without a process from the board or senior officials. The reaction to the withdrawal of Lyon is ludicrous. Sure, in terms of experienced coaches Clarkson and Lyon (along with Roos) are the highest profile in the business. Clearly Lyon thought his time was up and had resigned himself to maintaining relevance with his media presence. An opportunity seemed to present piquing his interest, and seemingly offering a path back to the big time. We can only guess at the level of the skeletons in his closet with only bits and pieces being public knowledge. It would seem Lyon responded positively and eagerly to the overtures from Sayers and with Clarko seemingly out of the race viewed the position as his, like many in the media and the public.

Sayers clearly did not have the mandate to appoint Lyon directly even if he had any desire to do so. This in no way should be assumed. By putting a process in place with a purpose formed committee, there was no way Lyon could avoid certain levels of scrutiny so hastily withdrew, seemingly resigned to the fact he would not survive a significant level of scrutiny.

There is enough information available to us to suggest Liddle and Lloyd are likely in the “dead man walking” category. Clearly Sayers and the board are utilising their services pending availability of replacements and perhaps to mercifully minimise any professional blowback to those individuals. Allowing for a lower key ”career move” as opposed to a summary sacking would seem kind to these officials. Unfortunately it is likely that rather than carry out their tasks to the best of their abilities, one or both are taking any opportunity they have to lob grenades at management. Things are escalating, but I for one have not lost faith in Sayers. He has shown admirable courage and intent to remove any toxic influences from the management and has my support. It is not prudent to dump both CEO and Head of Football when we are working through list management decisions. There is some logic to retaining this pair pending replacements.

The latest revelations and the determination of the media to destabilise the club have serious ramifications around player retention and recruitment and need to be addressed. I would defy any individual posting garbage on our board to have the skill set to seamlessly manage such a circumstance within an organisation requiring obvious levels of corporate governance, and under such public scrutiny. I really hope all of the stirrers driving their own little agendas would back off unless they have something relevant and beneficial to add to the discussion.

How about we Carlton supporters actually support Carlton…………..

I like the sentiment CB .... but don't think the narrative of Sayers being some sort of political lamb to the slaughter rings true .... he was heading up PwC - an environment that would be more of a political viper pit than most workplaces in Australia.

I reckon it'd be more believeable that Sayers is used to getting what he wants, when he wants it, and it's maybe not coming as easily as he expects it - big consulting shops focus on the outcome and getting the 'optics' right (ethics and process are often way down the chain) .... and I suspect that his frustration is that he's struggling to control the optics. Needs to rip off the Liddle and especially the Lloyd band-aid.

Just my $0.02 but hoping to see Cook and B Scott come in - good operators and great media performers - those 2 would give us the opportunity to put all this behind us fairly quickly and focus in on 2022.

 

[LanceRomance]

The dream is clarko but I’d be looking at Yze.

What makes Yze anymore experienced than Teague?

 

[NavyBlueHeaven]

Again what has Ross done that a bit of PR couldn’t overcome. I’m sure he’d be willing to participate in some additional training to bring him up to the exacting standards of the footy club.

My reference was in relation to the Respects program not Ross

 

[Gavstar]

100% this.

Firstly there’s a difference between a process to determine if a person can coach, and activity to understand whether a person’s appointment is going to cause, or have the potential to cause, reputational harm. Lyon would sail through the first activity, so why is he worried about that?

if Lyon is put off by the thought of needing to give the maximum amount of clarity - legally permitted - around circumstances of his time in, and departure from Fremantle and St Kilda, he can’t possibly believe he has any right, regardless of any representation made to him, to coach the Carlton Football Club.

I say this because it’s ultimately the club that will bear the brunt of external questions, insinuations on these topics. It’s the club that will need to answer how hiring Lyon supports Carlton Respects. And it shows a complete lack of respect from Lyon towards both the club and anyone involved in both the coaching search and a leadership position in the club that he expects to be hired without giving the organisation and leaders within it both the comfort and context to support him and the club in navigating that environment.

Lyon the coach I would be happy to have, I think the discipline and accountability he brings are exactly what this group needs right now. But this episode is a bright red flag on Lyon the individual and the club is better off moving forward without him.

Again we are talking about sporting coaches would Bellamy be made to go through a process if wanted to coach another Rugby league team no way in hell.

 

[1981]

I’ll tell you this straight up; when I was approached a year ago by a CEO to change employers and head up the relevant dept, they already knew who I was, my previous experience, skills and people who would act as referees.

The minute I heard “multi-stage interview process” I told them I wasn’t interested.

This is 100% completely normal in any occupation and don’t be surprised when no experienced coach wants to go through the same nonsense.

Congratulations.

 

[Healer]

Sayers will be judged on whether he lands the “best experienced” coach

The panel process is now unlikely to give that outcome.

Sayers will be judged on whether the club lifts to be a finals contender and premiership winner.

 

[Pentatonic Flat Fifth]

You don’t just hire someone without an interview process.

Yes you can headhunt them, but the expectation would be they need to present their plan for the team, no matter how qualified they think they are.

Says more about Lyon this news than Carlton.


Sent from my iPhone using BigFooty.com

Lyon chucked the toys from the pram. The guy understands footy - but seriously brings way to much baggage to the table through his personality - its just not ok in the modern age - fair bit of professionalism there similar to Malthouse.

He played out his entire negotiation in the media - really poor form and should be struck off for that alone.

Would prefer almost anyone else.

 

[Zlatan]

NO coach would be hired without going through the process and no CEO would be hired without going through it either - you weren't hired.

The idea that anyone would walk into a CEO position or senior coaching position without going through the process is honestly not really worth even discussing, its just not remotely plausible.

Maybe at some concrete factory in sunshine - or the Toogarook under 14 brown division.

Ross was prepared for a process, but not the one that eventuated. That means the terms changed.

 

[Pentatonic Flat Fifth]

Sayers will be judged on whether he lands the “best experienced” coach

The panel process is now unlikely to give that outcome.

It will be judged on whether he lands the best available coach and best suited.

People throwing hissy fits for due diligence is pretty outrageous.

 

[BluesRule]

What makes Yze anymore experienced than Teague?

Teague has won as many AFL Flags as Lyon or Brad Scott or Voss or Ratten etc. etc...
And I don't want another dinosaur, so what is the real key metric for a new hiring?

 

[new_blue]

Bit of a random thought, but how about we bring in both Scott Bros.

Chris - Head Coach
Brad - Head of Football

I reckon they’d work really well together.

 

[Pentatonic Flat Fifth]

Ross was prepared for a process, but not the one that eventuated. That means the terms changed.

No it doesn't. It means Ross has been playing pantomimes in the media since day one - everyone knows this - he has pulled every dodgey trick there is to get this gig and this is just another in a long line.

He has done himself no favours and its disrespectful to Carlton. He can jog right on - and has been told to do so - which is excellent.

Never performed, unproffessional, bad player interactions, long list of issues.

He is firmly in the Grant Thomas / Mick Malthouse old school of - no thanks mate.