Autopsy Brave Swans fall 9 points short

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Papley had it 18 times for 55% disposal efficiency.
Gulden had it 23 times for 56% disposal efficiency.
Campbell had it 6 times for 33% disposal efficiency.


So here I go!
We fought hard to keep Papley from leaving for Carlton. We wanted a pick 9 for him.
Our Academy produced the other two as prized & envied young players, with Campbell costing the club pick 5.
Gulden basically handed the ball over 11 times on Saturday so between that & Papley missing very gettable goals, we have a real problem with how we rate our players & on what basis they are selected for senior footy.

It's quite clear that Campbell needs to finish off the season in the twos to work on his game until he dominates. He is not senior standard at this point with the opposition pressure being placed on him. Papley gets one more chance this week but I he deserves to get dropped to send a message about selfishness. Watched it again.
Paps was very costly. Along with some midfielders, Mills included, who didn't defend well at all & were playing selfish games more worried about their own game on the day.

A few of our players believe the hype about themselves & very rarely deliver on it. The sooner they are force fed with where their individual importance to the team lies, the sooner our club will get back to the selfless days our more recent p'ship success was based on.
I now lean my credit of the 2012 premiership to Paul Roos rather than Horse because it was his recruitment & development of players that did the important jobs on GF day.
I'll list them! ROK, Mattner, Richards, Grundy, Pyke, Shaw, LRT, Goodes, Mumford, JPK, etc ,etc,...........

These guys were his recruits.
Longmire's legacy will be that he coached a more talented bunch of individuals through his time, that played pretty & exciting footy at times but without the selfless team ethic of Roos' teams that extracted every little bit of talent & consistency from their bodies. Roos had a talented Goodes on his team but it wasn't until Goodes leadership was challenged that he became a better team player, yet a bigger star than if he wasn't challenged by Roos.

Horse is at the cross road right now with his list that has many more "talented" players.
Hard calls have to be made. I see Heeney as a younger Adam Goodes. I see Paddy McCartin as a young Ted Richards with a second chance at a great career. Warner for me shows some leadership that the team can be built around. He is a standout.
Now that I sit back & think of the players that were brought to the club & gifted to Horse as coach, I think of Buddy, Tippett, Heeney, Mills, Campbell, Gulden, Hayward, Papley, Florent, McDonald.

I fear that these younger guys on the list will miss a premiership at the Swans because they are pretty talented individuals who like Buddy, will be incapable of getting our club to a p'ship unless they are taught by Longmire some very hard lessons about team footy. Now this may ruffle some feathers & they want out but I think it's time as a club, we find out who actually has the ticker of a Jude Bolton who was offered for trade, or Nick Smith or Malceski or Rhys Shaw, Richards, Grundy & Pyke.
There is no doubt that Paul Roos ultimately was the man responsible for Adam Goodes being an AFL & Swan legend.

Time to find out who on our list has some ticker.

I'll nominate Fox as the unlikely one. Not the most talented but he is fast becoming one of the players I enjoy watching because he cops it from selectors & could have left like Newman did but he has hung around & should be left in the 21 to fight out his career week by week.
For this I can trust him as a supporter. I can cope with him coughing the ball up when he shows consistent effort but spare me the Papley show we saw on the weekend.
 
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Coaches votes
Essendon v Sydney

8 Chad Warner (SYD)

8 Nicholas Hind (ESS)
7 Zach Merrett (ESS)
3 Dyson Heppell (ESS)
2 Mason Redman (ESS)
1 Jake Kelly (ESS)
1 Brandon Zerk-Thatcher (ESS)

LEADERBOARD​

83 Clayton Oliver (MELB)
68 Lachie Neale (BL)
65 Touk Miller (GCFC)
65 Christian Petracca (MELB)
64 Andrew Brayshaw (FRE)
63 Jeremy Cameron (GEEL)
60 Patrick Cripps (CARL)
52 Connor Rozee (PORT)
48 Callum Mills (SYD)
45 Sam Walsh (CARL)

Coaches' votes, R16: Oliver extends lead as star Dees teammate takes perfect 10

1
2
3
4
5
6
7
8
9
10
11
12
14
15
16
Total
Callum Mills​
8​
3​
10​
10​
10​
3​
4​
48​
Chad Warner​
1​
6​
8​
6​
8​
29​
Isaac Heeney​
5​
10​
2​
5​
22​
Lance Franklin​
5​
7​
9​
21​
Luke Parker​
10​
3​
2​
1​
2​
18​
Justin Mcinerney​
10​
5​
15​
Peter Ladhams​
7​
4​
4​
15​
Oliver Florent​
5​
3​
7​
15​
Jake Lloyd​
1​
1​
10​
12​
Patrick McCartin​
2​
4​
2​
8​
Nick Blakey​
1​
7​
8​
Errol Gulden​
1​
1​
4​
6​
Sam Reid​
6​
6​
Logan McDonald​
4​
2​
6​
Tom Papley​
5​
5​
Tom McCartin​
2​
1​
1​
4​
Dylan Stephens​
1​
1​
 
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I thought that this pre season was all of that after throwing away the first semi final last year.
I think it is reasonably straightforward. We need two A grade mids - one in and under beast and one Hannebery style outside runner. No Heeney in the middle.

We also need to switch to one on one when the zone is being picked through. I strongly believe that we would have stemmed the tide in the second half against ESS.

Finally, we need a defensive forward. Full time. AFL seems to have evolved into a turnover game off half back. This needs to be stopped.

The rest is up to the coaches to fire up the squad and bring the intensity for four qtrs.

I’m sure this is an overly simplistic way to look at the game but there we have it.
 

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Nothing against our boys, it was an away game, and after the ducking sledge from Parker, the Bombers wanted it more.

Our midfiield grunt lacking in 2022?

I said in the Trading Hypotheticals thread last year.. go get Will Brodie, then at the Suns. He seemed out of favour, and under-performing, he was not getting games.

Big bodied inside mid, from a tough country league, the Ovens and Murray in NSW. ..But not one word of support in here, it was like, who?

And where is he now? Shooting the lights out at Fremantle, clear across the country. .A NSW boy!
 
And while I'm at it...spare a thought for Brett Kirk, our 2022 game day runner.

How frustrated he must feel! There were no concentration lapses or squandered leads under his captaincy! You got in and under and went to the next contest, all day.. And Paul Kelly before him..
 
And while I'm at it...spare a thought for Brett Kirk, our 2022 game day runner.

How frustrated he must feel! There were no concentration lapses or squandered leads under his captaincy! You got in and under and went to the next contest, all day.. And Paul Kelly before him..

No squandered leads or concentration lapses? Not sure if sarcasm or not..
 
I took a few days to calm down my frustration after watching that game on Saturday. When I look at things with a little less emotion (because I had a lot of it after watching that loss), I do think this could be the growing pains of a bunch of youngish guys who have drunk their own bathwater a little and will learn how to be more consistent across a game. It's so frustrating, bordering on angering, seeing a side with so much ability allow bottom 8 sides to do what they please for huge stretches of the game. I've never seen a Swans side this inconsistent during games. It makes for a strange season in which we rarely get absolutely thumped at the end of the game on the scoreboard but we go enormous stretches of games being basically unable to stop the other side from doing as they please. From memory, we've played about 4 full-four-quarter games this year (WCE, Geelong, Essendon first time, St.Kilda) which is bizarre to think that we're still sitting at 3 games over a 50-50 split of our games and in the 8.

I think ultimately a lot of it falls on our midfield currently. The way the Bombers midfield was walking out of the middle untouched time after time suggests to me that our midfield isn't made of tough enough stuff yet to play 4 full quarters week in and week out. I think that will change as Warner, Rowbottom, Gulden, McInerney etc. get older but it's frustrating as hell right now to watch.

We should have won that game with the amount of dominance we had in the 3rd and first half of the last. To let it slide from there indicates to me that this bunch is still learning the basics of how to be a genuinely good team. You can't rest on your laurels as often as this side do if you want to make the top 4 and compete for a flag. I think over time they'll sort it out but f*** me is it insanity-inducing to watch it right now.
At the end of the day, it was a game where had we kicked even half reasonably, we would have won. Had Essendon's conversion been similar to AFL average we would have won by 8-9 goals and no-one would be complaining. However. the likes of Papley, Franklin and many of the other forwards are paid to kick goals. That is their job and regularly they don' do it.
The ability of our opponents to walk the ball out of the centre on a regular basis is a major concern. As bad as it was against Essendon, the game against Carlton was even worse and that was when competing against Silvagni as their ruck. I think we are in urgent need of a centre clearance bull and we should go all out to convince Hopper to join us. On top of that our young mids in Warner and Rowbottom will take time to learn the defensive side of being a mid. It's not just all about offence. We are said to have a brilliant list of under 23s but with inexperience comes inconsistency.
The unfortunate reality is that we seem to be a very good side whilst we have momentum and things are going our way but when momentum turns we seem to be completely unable to do about it.
In the past, the media would always make the comment that "you know what you're going to get when playing against the Swans". "A hard fought, in tight contest with every possession being a struggle". We are now so far away from that team, it's not funny. I'm not saying that that is necessarily a bad thing as I hated our old style of stoppage after stoppage but the team must be able to revert to this when the tide does turn.
 
Yeah I got the tongue in cheek bit, but two days on I'm with Bedders, should be pathetic Swans.
How can anyone say "it was tongue in cheek" when you read what he said after making the title.

Boys gave it their all for Parker 250th reckon he would be quietly proud behind the scenes.
Mills * me did he try hard all day or what? sure didn't get much of it but never stopped trying
Heeney pretty tough to play out the game with a huge corkie much respect to him for sticking it out and trying to play through it
Papley does this bloke bleed for the team or what? always backs his own skill and judgement sometimes it works sometimes it doesn't but hey who can doubt him
Blakey how good is his defensive running from HB? always tries to create options just wasn't his day today most of his little dangerous kicks were called not 15.
Conditions were extremely difficult for goal kicking hopefully most of the players out there brought wind gauges in their pockets could make a big difference in September
Solid hitout at the MCG good for our younger brigade to get more exposure playing infront of a vocal and loud crowd.


That seems to me that he was fair dinkum in his assessment that we were brave. The title should have been altered by the mods.
 
-We can't defend. Over 90 points scored against us.

-We get ahead of ourselves during the game, letting the opposition back into the game. It happened twice on Saturday.

-Buddy can no longer play a whole game running further up the ground which makes him more dangerous & allows better marking forwards to become relevant in the game. McDonald for one is affected when Buddy goes back deep forward. I blame the coaches. Fix it now.

-Younger next step players sit back comfortably during periods after we regain ascendancy in games & their drop off is a big reason why teams svore unanswered consecutive goals of 3, 4 & 5 or more.
 

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I took a few days to calm down my frustration after watching that game on Saturday. When I look at things with a little less emotion (because I had a lot of it after watching that loss), I do think this could be the growing pains of a bunch of youngish guys who have drunk their own bathwater a little and will learn how to be more consistent across a game. It's so frustrating, bordering on angering, seeing a side with so much ability allow bottom 8 sides to do what they please for huge stretches of the game. I've never seen a Swans side this inconsistent during games. It makes for a strange season in which we rarely get absolutely thumped at the end of the game on the scoreboard but we go enormous stretches of games being basically unable to stop the other side from doing as they please. From memory, we've played about 4 full-four-quarter games this year (WCE, Geelong, Essendon first time, St.Kilda) which is bizarre to think that we're still sitting at 3 games over a 50-50 split of our games and in the 8.

I think ultimately a lot of it falls on our midfield currently. The way the Bombers midfield was walking out of the middle untouched time after time suggests to me that our midfield isn't made of tough enough stuff yet to play 4 full quarters week in and week out. I think that will change as Warner, Rowbottom, Gulden, McInerney etc. get older but it's frustrating as hell right now to watch.

We should have won that game with the amount of dominance we had in the 3rd and first half of the last. To let it slide from there indicates to me that this bunch is still learning the basics of how to be a genuinely good team. You can't rest on your laurels as often as this side do if you want to make the top 4 and compete for a flag. I think over time they'll sort it out but f*** me is it insanity-inducing to watch it right now.
Great post.

I was struck by Horse’s comment about Warner when a journo said he must be happy with his game. Horse essentially said Warner was young, good and will learn from some of the tape after the game.

So while Warner had a good game overall, there are clearly things Horse thinks he could have done better to stem the tide in the final quarter.

Perfectly fine for Warner to make mistakes. He is young and still learning the caper. I think our young mids will get more consistent over the next year or two, it takes time and learning from mistakes to get there.
 
I think he meant that applied under Kirk's time. Not last week.

I'm aware, my question stands. Plenty of poor games under Kirk.
 
How can anyone say "it was tongue in cheek" when you read what he said after making the title.

Boys gave it their all for Parker 250th reckon he would be quietly proud behind the scenes.
Mills * me did he try hard all day or what? sure didn't get much of it but never stopped trying
Heeney pretty tough to play out the game with a huge corkie much respect to him for sticking it out and trying to play through it
Papley does this bloke bleed for the team or what? always backs his own skill and judgement sometimes it works sometimes it doesn't but hey who can doubt him
Blakey how good is his defensive running from HB? always tries to create options just wasn't his day today most of his little dangerous kicks were called not 15.
Conditions were extremely difficult for goal kicking hopefully most of the players out there brought wind gauges in their pockets could make a big difference in September
Solid hitout at the MCG good for our younger brigade to get more exposure playing infront of a vocal and loud crowd.


That seems to me that he was fair dinkum in his assessment that we were brave. The title should have been altered by the mods.
Do you think it's normal to be continuing to litigate how someone posted days ago?
 
It’s very clearly 100% tongue in cheek. I know sarcasm is sometimes hard to detect online, but I think it’s pretty obvious in this case.
I’ll admit I was weighing up if the OP was tongue in cheek or serious until the final paragraph. But clearly the kicking conditions were fine and players didn’t need wind goggles!
 
What makes you say this other than the fact that they were not close to being brave?

Absolutely no one in their right mind would seriously call such a meek loss to a bottom 3 side “brave”. Especially not Heeney2Franklin, who is one of the more critical and pessimistic posters in the gameday threads. Also, “wind goggles”. Also, the amusingly enthusiastic faint praise for precisely the players who had an off night.

This isn’t even up for discussion. The OP was sarcasm all the way. Maybe a little subtle, but it comes through enough to leave one in no doubt that it’s a pisstake.
 

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Autopsy Brave Swans fall 9 points short

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