Brett Deledio vs Ryan Griffen

[Igloo]

I'm fairly sure Griffen is not faster than Deledio. Do you have a measure of their speed?

Watching over their careers, it's pretty clear he is. Deledio undoubtedly has better endurance, but Griffen is definitely faster.
Don't have a measure of speed, but you can see it pretty clearly when both are running full pace in a game.

edit: Found Deledio's 20m sprint time - 2.90 (at draft camp). Not really relevant though, as im talking over a larger distance than 20m.
edit #2: I don't think Griffen tested at draft camp.

 

[Elite Master]

Griffen really extracts himself with bursts of speed, he appears more explosive off the mark with his gut busting style, where as Deledio is more calm and composed. Both are effective with plenty of pace regardless.

To put it into context, Griff reminds me of Nadal and Dids reminds me of Federer.

 

[Igloo]

Griffen really extracts himself with bursts of speed, he appears more explosive off the mark with his gut busting style, where as Deledio is more calm and composed. Both are effective with plenty of pace regardless.

To put it into context, Griff reminds me of Nadal and Dids reminds me of Federer.

That's actually pretty spot on. Nice comparison

 

[Elite Master]

That's actually pretty spot on. Nice comparison

Thanks mate. I've been waiting to use that analogy for a while.

 

[TigerTime88]

Where did i directly say he cant do anything as a forward or back? i said i cant see him doing AS MUCH as deledio as a back or forward.

Isolate last year i would take griffen, over career and future potential improvement id take deledio. Deledio could play in your team and play more roles making him more versatile and he has great athletic ability.

Still my point is that it is easier for him to do what he did with better players around him. Do you think he could do what he has done if he was the no1 midfielder and not let say 3rd in the pecking order?

I agree.

Deledio takes a much better overhead mark and would be more damaging if they both played as a full time forward.

In the middle I think they are fairly even and I think although Griffen has played well off HBF he hasn't matched Deledios efforts.

As pointed out by big luch you are kidding yourself if you don't think players play better in a winning team....

 

[RedWhite&Blue]

Griffen really extracts himself with bursts of speed, he appears more explosive off the mark with his gut busting style, where as Deledio is more calm and composed. Both are effective with plenty of pace regardless.

To put it into context, Griff reminds me of Nadal and Dids reminds me of Federer.

not bad at all

 

[ManOfClay]

I agree.

Deledio takes a much better overhead mark and would be more damaging if they both played as a full time forward.

In the middle I think they are fairly even and I think although Griffen has played well off HBF he hasn't matched Deledios efforts.

As pointed out by big luch you are kidding yourself if you don't think players play better in a winning team....

All I'm seeing from you is potentials. Deledio would be better if. Deledio would be more damaging if. Along that line I could say Deledio could be a better player if he had more talent than Griffen.

Deledio should have played better at HBF. He's been at his peak and playing there. Griffen played half back when he was still a kid.

Point number three, is a team a winning team because it's players are playing well, or do players play well because their team is winning? Griffen has been our best player in our winning teams, so it's not like he is being made to look good. He's the one making others look good.

 

[Bulldog1954]

In the middle I think they are fairly even and I think although Griffen has played well off HBF he hasn't matched Deledios efforts.

If Deledio was matching Griffen for performances in the middle he would be playing there. Deledio is getting an easy ride playing half back, its just about the easiest role in football particularly for a player of his ability. Griff played half back when younger, he moved to the middle and hasn't looked back, something Deledio still needs to do

 

[TigerBlood87]

If Deledio was matching Griffen for performances in the middle he would be playing there. Deledio is getting an easy ride playing half back, its just about the easiest role in football particularly for a player of his ability. Griff played half back when younger, he moved to the middle and hasn't looked back, something Deledio still needs to do

I know you don't believe this. Deledio has been our best player consistently bar Matthew Richardson since coming to the Tigers. He has been playing on the hbf due to necessity and nothing else. We haven't had a decent ruckman since Greg Stafford retired and even then he was in the twilight of his career. Not having a decent ruck division means your midfield doesn't get first use of the ball which then means that your backline is under consistent pressure. This is why Deledio has had to play there for so long to try and stem the flow of goals. Now that we have a serviceable ruckman in Maric, the pressure on our mids to rove the oppositions taps will be far less, resulting in more clearances from the middle and less ball streaming into our defensive 50. Just watch.

If Lids is released into the midfield (and even the forward 50 all going well) like all Richmond supporters hope/pray he does, with players like Cotchin and Martin standing beside him this won't be an argument come the end of the year as he may not take the hard tag each week. Much like the support Griffen has had in players like Scott West and Matty Boyd.

 

[Bulldog1954]

I know you don't believe this. Deledio has been our best player consistently bar Matthew Richardson since coming to the Tigers. He has been playing on the hbf due to necessity and nothing else. We haven't had a decent ruckman since Greg Stafford retired and even then he was in the twilight of his career. Not having a decent ruck division means your midfield doesn't get first use of the ball which then means that your backline is under consistent pressure. This is why Deledio has had to play there for so long to try and stem the flow of goals. Now that we have a serviceable ruckman in Maric, the pressure on our mids to rove the oppositions taps will be far less, resulting in more clearances from the middle and less ball streaming into our defensive 50. Just watch.

I do believe that Deledio has been your best player since Richo, he is a very very good footballer but with no trolling intended until Cotchin and Martin came along being the Tigs best player wasn't that difficult.

It's also a very simplified argument putting so much down to the quality of ruckman. Griffens best years have come with Hudson as ruckman, made a great contest and was good with the ball on the ground but hardly dominant in the hit outs. There is nothing wrong with being a very good half back flanker which Deledio has been, but with his ability he should be in the middle rather then the easier role he has now. He may be down back to help stem the flow of goals as you state but him being in the middle winning clearances and using his fantastic skills and athleticism also can help stem that flow. It's similar to the arguments being made in the Cotchin v Gibbs thread - give me the proven midfield gun over the gun half back flanker

 

[StringyDog]

Now that we have a serviceable ruckman in Maric, the pressure on our mids to rove the oppositions taps will be far less, resulting in more clearances from the middle and less ball streaming into our defensive 50. Just watch.

If you are expecting this you are in for disappointment as Maric while an upgrade of Graham around the ground is actually a downgrade in terms of tapwork, he is a below average ruckman.

If Lids is released into the midfield (and even the forward 50 all going well) like all Richmond supporters hope/pray he does, with players like Cotchin and Martin standing beside him this won't be an argument come the end of the year as he may not take the hard tag each week. Much like the support Griffen has had in players like Scott West and Matty Boyd.

What is different to last year you had Newman and Houli playing back and Deledio was still playing there instead of midfield when the team was being smashed out of middle and needed him. Ellis while looking a good prospect has played 0 games and Morris looks dodgy as in terms of skills coming out of backline, I predict before round 6-7 Deledio will be back again after teams target him hard through he middle.

 

[TigerBlood87]

If you are expecting this you are in for disappointment as Maric while an upgrade of Graham around the ground is actually a downgrade in terms of tapwork, he is a below average ruckman.



What is different to last year you had Newman and Houli playing back and Deledio was still playing there instead of midfield when the team was being smashed out of middle and needed him. Ellis while looking a good prospect has played 0 games and Morris looks dodgy as in terms of skills coming out of backline, I predict before round 6-7 Deledio will be back again after teams target him hard through he middle.

First point - Have you seen Gus Graham play? I have, for far too long. Maric is a much better kick, mark and his efforts around the ground and around the contest are far superior to Graham. The fact that we haven't had a serviceable ruckman since as I've said Stafford retired cannot be said enough. Graham's efforts have frustrasted Tiger faithful to no end and watching big Ivan jump into Goldstein was a breath of fresh air. Graham wins more taps yes, but he doesn't hit many of them to advantage which is of no use to anyone.

Second point - Last year we were plagued by injuries in defence. Grimes (one of the league leaders in spoils) did a hammy in round 7 (I think). Batchelor got injured and was one of our best performed off the half-back flank and pocket. Newman, our most experienced player in the team and best small/medium defender got injured against the Cats which meant our defensive 6 consisted of:
HB: Houli (44g), Post (22g), Deledio (150g)
B: Rance (44g), Dea (7g), Conca (17g)
These are games currently played, not at the time. That is an extremely inexperienced backline especially at the KPD positions and we were lucky that Alex Rance had a break out year or we would have taken more losses and the drubbings (from Carlton, Haw and Collingwood) would have been worse. Ellis looks a bit underdone to me, whereas Steven Morris just needs to adjust to the pace of the game and will be fine. He is ready made for AFL and should be able to take the lockdown role we have needed for so long on the small forward in the pocket. If Lids gets tagged out of games, we still have guys like Foley, Martin, Conca and Cotchin that can open up games when he's quiet and will thrive with less pressure.

 

[The_Bulldogs_Bite]

Maric is crap.

Graham is worse than crap.

We'll see what Deledio is made of when he actually plays midfield. Until then, if we are comparing them as mids? Griffen is a long, long, LONG way in front. He's proven it in big games, in finals, and he's been consistent for two years.

Deledio still needs to not only make the transition from half back to midfield, but he has to become an elite mid -- which is what Griffen is.

 

[slimdusty4]

Maric is crap.

Graham is worse than crap.

We'll see what Deledio is made of when he actually plays midfield. Until then, if we are comparing them as mids? Griffen is a long, long, LONG way in front. He's proven it in big games, in finals, and he's been consistent for two years.

Deledio still needs to not only make the transition from half back to midfield, but he has to become an elite mid -- which is what Griffen is.

griffen played as 2nd/3rd/4th string under guys like west cross cooney boyd etc etc whilst deledio jumped in as one of our most important players after 1/2 a season, by the end of second season he was being given the oppositions best tag, hell half the time he plays as attacking HBF he is tagged, and has been for a while, how long has griffen been receiving the oppositions best tagger?

put it to you this way, put deledio in any position on the field in a collingwood/geelong/hawthorn, and he would ******* kill it, anywhere, but specifically to this argument, in the midfield, as 2nd string to swan and pendlebury. more so than what what griffen would do, until 18 months ago, this is the role griffen was playing. i mean another way to look at it is, less responsibility for deledio, more freedom, and better suppliers of the ball, doesn't take a rocket scientist to do the math on that, it adds up well for deledio.

you cant question the guys credentials or his consistency, and as richmond improve, he will only shine brighter. i believe he has more upside too, whilst griffen is a fantastic footballer, i think he is a tad two dimensional, and hasnt got much more to give than what he is outlaying at the moment (and thats still pretty impressive), but deledio has kicked 2 more goals from 6 more games, at around .66 a game. watch that rise to 1-1.3 a game over the next 2 seasons, his clearances will rise, his inside 50s will rise, and being the most elite kick at the club, means he will probably be the source of a hell of a lot of Goal assists.

summary: griffen will keep his strong numbers intact which are solid, deledios also solid numbers will only improve.

also, to the bloke (sorry for using this word, moronic) that made the moronic comment that said that deledio isn't quick, let alone quicker than griffen:

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=gXNunNeqCyI


http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=y7-X459oetw

(watch from 1:40 on the second video)

for those who wont look, the videos are (1) deledio burning judd, and two winning the GF sprint

 

[ManOfClay]

Richmond posters argument: Deledio would be better in a better side. One again throwing up hypotheticals and treating them as fact. News flash: he's not in a better side. Can only play where you are placed, and by that measure Griffen has been better.

I also bow to Deledio winning the grand final sprint. We all know that is what every player wants to do as a show of how good they are. That first video, he was at full sprint when he got the ball and moving in a straight line. Yet Judd nearly ran him down despite not sprinting at the start and having to change direction.

If you want real speed, watch the below:
[youtube]WzfPJYFRoZk[/youtube].
[youtube]WkiSzQNPP-M[/youtube].


And for those questioning Griffen's ability inside forward 50:
[youtube]QPwRUNI6Ol8[/youtube].


Speed, strength and agility. I think the only thing that Deledio has an advantage on is marking.

 

[DerpWerls]

Richmond posters argument: Deledio would be better in a better side. One again throwing up hypotheticals and treating them as fact. News flash: he's not in a better side. Can only play where you are placed, and by that measure Griffen has been better.

I also bow to Deledio winning the grand final sprint. We all know that is what every player wants to do as a show of how good they are. That first video, he was at full sprint when he got the ball and moving in a straight line. Yet Judd nearly ran him down despite not sprinting at the start and having to change direction.

Speed, strength and agility. I think the only thing that Deledio has an advantage on is marking.

Poll suggests Deledio is better
We should start a Griffen Vs Deledio (AGILITY) poll. That will be a real test

You also said on the last page that Griffen had the better of Ablett. Ryan Crowley can claim that too. Deledio has played on Judd and Goddard and done brilliant defensive jobs. I'm not saying Deledio is better than Griffen.

It is my opinion they are pretty close. Both are guns.
Care factor as to who is better - ZERO. Would be very pleased with either

 

[donbooger]

Richmond posters argument: Deledio would be better in a better side. One again throwing up hypotheticals and treating them as fact. News flash: he's not in a better side. Can only play where you are placed, and by that measure Griffen has been better.

Hypotheticals are absolutely neccesary when comparing a hbf to a midfielder, a tagged player to a non tagged player, the quality of the support around him, etc. You will get very few polls where you will get the luxury of perfectly matched circumstances, hypothesizing and thinking is the best part of this board.

 

[Igloo]

also, to the bloke (sorry for using this word, moronic) that made the moronic comment that said that deledio isn't quick, let alone quicker than griffen:

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=gXNunNeqCyI


http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=y7-X459oetw

(watch from 1:40 on the second video)

for those who wont look, the videos are (1) deledio burning judd, and two winning the GF sprint

I didn't say Deledio wasn't quick. He obviously is. Just Griffen is quicker. ManOfClay gave a nice little example in his post. Just a quick note about that first video in his post, at the 1 second mark of the video, Griff is in the middle of the defensive 50. Enjoy

This is another very good example of his speed. After running 50m or so already, watch this burst of speed, and then slots a nice goal.
(not the best quality video)

[YOUTUBE]QQYkf8PVvho[/YOUTUBE]

 

[Jex]

I didn't say Deledio wasn't quick. He obviously is. Just Griffen is quicker.

Doubt it. Deledio is quicker, a better mark and a bit more versatile. If I had a choice between the two, I'd still choose Griffen. I'm picturing his best footy as Jobe Watson with pace and brilliant kick. Right now, they're pretty even and anyone who says one or the other by a fair distance is a tool.

 

[Big_Luch]

Hypotheticals are absolutely neccesary when comparing a hbf to a midfielder, a tagged player to a non tagged player, the quality of the support around him, etc. You will get very few polls where you will get the luxury of perfectly matched circumstances, hypothesizing and thinking is the best part of this board.

Totally agree....however it doesnt suit dogs supporters arguements so the points you made are obviously irrelevant. haha

 

[ManOfClay]

I could hypothetically say that if Griffen player half back for us he'd do a better job. But he doesn't.

So lets look at the facts:

Griffen has played better as a midfielder.

Deledio has played better as a halfback.

 

[donbooger]

I could hypothetically say that if Griffen player half back for us he'd do a better job. But he doesn't.

So lets look at the facts:

Griffen has played better as a midfielder.

Deledio has played better as a halfback.

With Deledio heading into the midfield I believe those will be the facts for only a few months longer, Ill stick with him if you dont mind.

 

[ManOfClay]

That's fine, it's your opinion.

However Griffen is a best and fairest winning midfielder in a top four team. Deledio would want to play pretty well.

 

[MightyTiger]

That's fine, it's your opinion.

However Griffen is a best and fairest winning midfielder in a top four team. Deledio would want to play pretty well.

Considering Deledio won 2 BnFs playing as a midfielder, Griffen might want to play pretty well to catch up to Deledio.

 

[Bulldog1954]

Winning best and fairests is always a good achievement but just for perspective in 2008 the runner up to Deledio was Shane Tuck, in 2009 it was Daniel Jackson. When Griffen won it there were six players who have made All Australian teams in the top ten, some are easier to win then others