Buckley > Hird > Voss

[Nandoz]

Stats mean jack champ

what one produces when it matters, in the big games - is what matters

with the exception of abblett and carey, we havent seen better big game players than sir jim or vossy over the past 15 years

even the most diehard collingwood man can/should admit to that

for mine, voss may JUST be shading jim, but had he not lost the best part of 4 years of his career, james would be by far simply the best

besides, why is robert harveys name never produced in such discussions?

 

[bunsen burner]

Premierships mean 0 in an individual debate. So those of you spouting flags, shut up. And Zeke, stats mean little.

Hird > Voss > Buckley

 

[DG-Man]

[besides, why is robert harveys name never produced in such discussions?[/quote]

It was by me. Bucks = Roo = Hird = Harvey (All 4 very hard to split)

Voss above them all.

As much as Geke likes to go on about it. This whole thread is summarised like this:

Coll supporters rate Bucks 1
Bris Supporters rate Voss 1
Independant supporters rate Voss 1

End of story!

 

[Zeke]

Independant supporters rate Voss 1

There is no such thing as an independant supporter when Collingwood is concerned.

We so polarize the football community that no one is indifferent to us or our players.

 

[Warwick]

Voss > Harvey > Hird > Buckley > Mark Bolton.

 

[Nandoz]

maybe they can only be separated in their performances against each other?

hird always has the better of bucks
voss has the edge over jim
cant really comment on voss v bucks head to head

but then again, the quality of team that voss has had the privelege of over the past 5 years has been unrivalled for the best part of 2 decades

 

[Warwick]

maybe they can only be separated in their performances against each other?

hird always has the better of bucks
voss has the edge over jim
cant really comment on voss v bucks head to head

but then again, the quality of team that voss has had the privelege of over the past 5 years has been unrivalled for the best part of 2 decades

And yet he has stood out. Voss has been playing without knees for 6 years. He played the game with a steel rod as a leg for a season.

If you want a comparison between Voss and Bucks watch the 2002 GF. Both dominant performances - pity about the Norm Smith being voted on at 3-quarter time. Vossy's last quarter got the lions home.

 

[Nandoz]

if jim didnt miss 7 games with injury in 2003?? was it that year?, its likely he would have gained an extra 3 votes minimum to win the brownlow, buckley, goodes and roo would be brownlowless to date!

would that have altered any opinions?

 

[DG-Man]

There is no such thing as an independant supporter when Collingwood is concerned.

We so polarize the football community that no one is indifferent to us or our players.

I think you need to wake up Zeke. Your imagination is running wild. We rate Voss from watching him and admiring his abilities. It has nothing to do with Collingwood.
There are anti collingwood people, like there are with many clubs. But i don't think the Pies would be top of many lists. Maybe 50 years ago, but IMO it is the successful clubs that teams love to hate, not the Pies, Cats, Freo, Doggies of the league! Eddiegate may make a few people dislike Collingwood, but it does not brainwash people into judging Voss over Buckley.

 

[Zeke]

if jim didnt miss 7 games with injury in 2003?? was it that year?, its likely he would have gained an extra 3 votes minimum to win the brownlow, buckley, goodes and roo would be brownlowless to date!

would that have altered any opinions?

If my Aunty had balls, would that alter any opinions on her being a woman?

 

[Grimreepah]

Premierships mean 0 in an individual debate. So those of you spouting flags, shut up.

It means something if you are captain.

 

[Ari]

If my Aunty had balls, would that alter any opinions on her being a woman?

Well you are from Tassie, so who knows!

 

[manmountain]

what one produces when it matters, in the big games - is what matters

Like Grand Finals for example?

2002 Norm Smith Medallist - Nathan Buckley.

He produces in the big games. Unfortunately he never played a lot of them because his career was spent surrounded by the likes of:

B: Luke Godden Scott Crow Jon Hassall
HB: Kent Butcher Mark Richaardson Frankie Raso
C: Stephen Paterson Shane Watson Mark Fraser
HF: Tony Woods Ben Kinnear Brad Rowe
FF: Alex McDonald Brent Tuckey Paul Sharkey
R: Matthew Francis Jason Wild Chris Curran

That's the calibre of players Buckley was surrounded by the majority of his career at Collingwood, in addition to being coached by Tony Shaw (makes Danny Frawley look like Norn Smith). Now you can all talk all the rubbish you want, but there is no way your precious, oh-so tough leaders in Voss and Hird would have led a team like that anywhere near a finals berth. They owe as much to the players around them (stars like Mercuri, Misiti, Wellman, Leppitsch, Black, Akermanis) as those players owe to Voss and Hird.

If you want to go further and suggest that Voss and Hird make their teammates better players, then surely Buckley deserves similar kudos for leading Collingwood to 2002 and 2003 grand finals with what are widely recognised as just reasonable lists, performing above themselves?

Bottom line. I think Buckley is the best player I have seen in the last decade. Whether any other bozo agrees or not makes no difference to me at all.

 

[Coin_Toss]

Great leaders bring the best out of their fellow players. Buckley is not a great leader.

Another dimwit!
When we needed someone to take control at the weekend, Buckley did just that!
Holland said the others followed by example.

 

[KING-JAMES]

There all good why doesw there have to be a best? Get over it.

 

[Ari]

There all good why doesw there have to be a best? Get over it.

You need to work on your their, there and they're.

A good way to look at it.

They're means THEY ARE, AS IN THEY ARE COOOOOL.
There means ITS OVER THERE, PAST THE HILL.
Their means ITS THEIR TASTY SANDWICH NOT MINE.

 

[MickZu]

Who the players rate http://www.aflpa.com.au/index.cfm?menuid=D2B025FC-0158-3DFC-4F16358B8D4390B1

Lock this thread!!!!!!

 

[Grimreepah]

Another dimwit!
When we needed someone to take control at the weekend, Buckley did just that!
Holland said the others followed by example.

I'm not talking about the odd match. I'm talking about over their careers.

 

[Thongdam]

You need to work on your their, there and they're.

A good way to look at it.

They're means THEY ARE, AS IN THEY ARE COOOOOL.
There means ITS OVER THERE, PAST THE HILL.
Their means ITS THEIR TASTY SANDWICH NOT MINE.

Huh?!

You are correct but so is this example "why does there have to be a best person". You can't use their or they're in this instance.

Edit: Oops, just noticed the first use of 'There' in KJ's post. I agree with you Ari 100%. A few more posters would do well to watch their use of their/there/they're!

 

[MickZu]

Great leaders bring the best out of their fellow players. Buckley is not a great leader.

Disagree, he showed what a magnificent great leader that he is when he tactically wipes his blood on another player. Change the course of the game that did, what a legend.

 

[doppleganger]

another interesting thing to note with the stats, is that for ages buckley was collingwoods designated kick in player......he would set up play from the backline but none of these disposals would ever count

head to head is interesting, hird always killed the pies but rarely played on bucks, interesting to note that over his career hird has the best record against collingwood

bucks absolutely smashes voss head to head, buckley has awesome team records against the bears & lions

voss has been rubbish against the pies over his career which may be why many pies fans dont really rate him as highly

buckley is better on the big stage too, winning norm smith, bog in a SANFL GF also....equivalent to a VFL flag according to out SA friends!!

where was voss in the 04GF when his team needed him??

 

[MickZu]

where was voss in the 04GF when his team needed him??

Players who have single handed won a GF from their own performance.
Hart 1
Voss 1
Black 1

Buckley 0

Have a nice day.

 

[Andrew Mc]

I have a hard time separating Hird and Voss (I rate Hird just ahead), but have no such problem with Buckley. The other 2 are clearly above him IMHO. Which is not to say he's not a great player, just not as good as the other 2.

 

[F/D]

Buckley hasnt impacted matches the same way Hird and Voss have.

Obviously this year Buckley has been the better footballer.

Over the year though? Voss Hird then Buckley.

 

[Grimreepah]

bucks absolutely smashes voss head to head, buckley has awesome team records against the bears & lions

voss has been rubbish against the pies over his career which may be why many pies fans dont really rate him as highly

Lions vs Collingwood

Voss - 14 wins as captain
Buckley - 3 wins as captain

buckley is better on the big stage too, winning norm smith, bog in a SANFL GF also....equivalent to a VFL flag according to out SA friends!!

Grandfinals

Voss - 3 wins and 1 loss as captain
Buckley - 2 losses as captain.

where was voss in the 04GF

playing