Buckley > Hird > Voss

[Falchoon]

buckley is better on the big stage too, winning norm smith,

lol

 

[konstas_87]

If my Aunty had balls, would that alter any opinions on her being a woman?

lemme guess shes a collingwood supporter too?

 

[doppleganger]

Presenting those stats is superfluous. It doesn't take acount of time spent on the field, the position they play, the style of play (eg. possession footy). Maybe Collingwood have relied on Buckley too much, which boosts his stats, but is detrimental to the team. That's why success should be considered because your efforts are wasted if it is not part of a winning gameplan.

that is an interesting point, does playing in a successful team influence stats

well in collingwoods best year 2003, when they finished second on the home & away ladder buckley had a brilliant season, winning the brownlow, b&f and he was still able to produce a brilliant season statistically he was easily the pies most dominant player, in a dominant team

yet when collingwood were a rabble in 99,00 buckley was still the dominant player in the team, he would dominate no matter what cattle was surrounding him, funny that in 2003 when surrounded by better team-mates he was able to influence the result of more games

success is determined by the team, u get the rewards and accolades when part of a successful team, hence buckley brownlow in 03, yet missed out in 99,00,01

voss best years were 95,96,00,01.............funny that he won the AFL MVP award in 02??

voss will go down as the most decorated player with the most medals, awards, premierships........u cant debate that. but he wasn't the better player

 

[doppleganger]

Zeke = brainless

Voss > not by much Hird > Bucks

Voss - 3 GF wins

Hird - 1GF or is it 2, did he play in 93? not sure!

Bucks = 0 0 0 0 0 0 0 0 (could hvae had 3 and i think 4 if he stayed at the bears, but left to 'play premiership footy' lol)


Stats dont mean everything, all have brownlows so are pretty much even,, voss has had more luck

Dont forget Harvey

2 Brownlows, ok no GF's but averages 25possies a week for his whole career!!

you say dont use stats, but then go and use them anyway!!??

by the way harvey did play in the 97 GF, prob would have been the saints best on the day

 

[Grimreepah]

voss will go down as the most decorated player with the most medals, awards, premierships........u cant debate that. but he wasn't the better player

I probably wouldn't even compare the two because they are different types of players that exert their influence in different ways. But I think there is just as much an argument that Voss is better than Buckley being better so if people are going to put forward Buckley's case then naturally I put forward the opposing view.

And one of the big advantages that Voss has is success. What is the goal of AFL? Is it to get kicks or handballs or hard ball gets or the most tackles. No, that is a means to an end. The goal of AFL is to win matches and premierships, and that is what Voss has done and Buckley hasn't.

And then you would say 'we're comparing individuals not teams'. Buckley may have gotten more possessions, but that is not what Voss is trying to do. Voss is trying to win, and getting as many possessions as possible isn't necessarily the best way to go about it. The reason why the stats don't tell the full story is because it is my opinion that when Voss is involved in the play he has a bigger influence, therefore his stats are of greater benefit to the team.

But you have a different opinion, and we're never going to change one another's mind.

 

[doppleganger]

I probably wouldn't even compare the two because they are different types of players that exert their influence in different ways. But I think there is just as much an argument that Voss is better than Buckley being better so if people are going to put forward Buckley's case then naturally I put forward the opposing view.

And one of the big advantages that Voss has is success. What is the goal of AFL? Is it to get kicks or handballs or hard ball gets or the most tackles. No, that is a means to an end. The goal of AFL is to win matches and premierships, and that is what Voss has done and Buckley hasn't.

And then you would say 'we're comparing individuals not teams'. Buckley may have gotten more possessions, but that is not what Voss is trying to do. Voss is trying to win, and getting as many possessions as possible isn't necessarily the best way to go about it. The reason why the stats don't tell the full story is because it is my opinion that when Voss is involved in the play he has a bigger influence, therefore his stats are of greater benefit to the team.

But you have a different opinion, and we're never going to change one another's mind.

agree with most of that

but the only thing i guess we will never agree with is the fact that voss has a bigger influence, because for every kick, tackle, mark etc voss has got buckley has him covered in pure numbers, with plenty to spare!!

yet u say that voss influences more matches, perhaps because when voss kicks the ball he kicks it to j.brown, a.lynch, d.bradshaw or handballs off to aker, n.lappin, l.power etc. all class players.........buckley kicks it to mark richardson, chad liddel and handballs to jason wild, chris curran etc. of course he isn't going to win more games!!

finally put buckley in a team with some decent players(still not comparable to the guns at brisbane) and he still dominates, finds as much as the ball as he always did, but surprise surprise collingwood win more games!!

u can only have an influence on those players around u, buckley had to kick the ball to at least a 75% advantage for his forward for them to get the ball, voss could kick it to a spot where lynch or brown were disadvantaged and they would still get it plenty of times!

 

[Grimreepah]

u can only have an influence on those players around u, buckley had to kick the ball to at least a 75% advantage for his forward for them to get the ball, voss could kick it to a spot where lynch or brown were disadvantaged and they would still get it plenty of times!

It's funny. I have been defending Brown in the 'Jonathan Brown conspiracy' thread, and the main argument of this theory is that Brown is made to look good by those around him. And here I am defending Voss because those around him make him look good. Not that I disagree with you. I also am of the opinion that Voss had better team mates around him. However I was referring to his influence on the play before his team mates use it (eg. a bullet handball out of a pack). But it's just my observation, I have no proof, and I'm obviously biased.

 

[doppleganger]

It's funny. I have been defending Brown in the 'Jonathan Brown conspiracy' thread, and the main argument of this theory is that Brown is made to look good by those around him. And here I am defending Voss because those around him make him look good. Not that I disagree with you. I also am of the opinion that Voss had better team mates around him. However I was referring to his influence on the play before his team mates use it (eg. a bullet handball out of a pack). But it's just my observation, I have no proof, and I'm obviously biased.

yes voss does deliver brilliant handballs, but surely buckley being able to hit a bloke lace out over 60m is using the ball extremely well, he was the best field kick going around....still would be up in the top 10 now, so clearly he would have an influence??

would u rate buckley a better kick then voss?

 

[Grimreepah]

would u rate buckley a better kick then voss?

yes. Buckley is probably the best kick in the competition.

 

[doppleganger]

yes. Buckley is probably the best kick in the competition.

so the bloke can use the ball better then voss, and he gets the ball more then voss.......yet voss is the better player??

voss more decorated, better leader....not better player

 

[Grimreepah]

so the bloke can use the ball better then voss

I was afraid I would get misquoted. I said he was a better kick.

You're not taking into account handballs, hard ball gets, tackling, shepards, intimidation, team work, marking, courage, the ability to read the play, the ability to lift the team, the ability to play through injury, clean hands, insticts, determination, attack on the ball, or the ability to handle pressure.

 

[doppleganger]

I was afraid I would get misquoted. I said he was a better kick.

You're not taking into account
handballs = voss
hard ball gets = voss although buckley led the league in 03
tackling = buckley lays more tackles
shepards = ??? who can stand still better??
intimidation = voss
team work = voss
marking = dead heat
courage = voss, although again cant really question bucks
the ability to read the play = buckley
the ability to lift the team = voss
the ability to play through injury = hard to judge, voss played more games over the career but has had the opportunity to play in more due to finals
clean hands = rarely see either player fumble
insticts = dont know how u determine football instincts, both have it in spades
determination = cant dispute either, that what makes them champions
attack on the ball = most people would say voss, although i dont know how buckley can be questioned
or the ability to handle pressure = buckley under much more pressure being in the leader of the biggest club in the land, performs brilliantly on the biggest stages, although voss cant be questioned either

think that is fair

 

[MrAaron]

would love it if Melbourn ebeat pies on monday which they will and Buckley tears his hammy AGAIN.

 

[Bomberland06]

hird is clearly way better than voss and buckley,he more likely to be selected in an team of the century side then voss or buckley!!!!!!!

 

[Bomberland06]

well surely they would be recognised for there part during the 90's, i was only saying at the start i reckon hird would make it in the team clearly for the fact he is the greatest player around today!!!

 

[mantis]

would love it if Melbourn ebeat pies on monday which they will and Buckley tears his hammy AGAIN.

You're a disgrace, please stop pretending to be a Bomber, seeing as you have jumped on the socceroos bandwagon, off to the soccer forums.

 

[Palmer Stoat]

for mine, voss may JUST be shading jim, but had he not lost the best part of 4 years of his career, james would be by far simply the best

I can't believe an Essendon supporter is saying this. Hird is better than Voss. (And so is Buckley.)

 

[davey_magik]

Hird and Buckley > Voss.
Voss is a better leader, but I think on ability Buckley and Hird are ahead.

 

[ARES]

Overall career points

Captain material

Voss 5
Buckley 4
Hird 4

Possession status

Voss 4
Buckley 5
Hird 3

Ability to excite

Voss 4
Buckley 3
Hird 5

Ability to hurt opposition through possesion

Voss 5
Buckley 4
Hird 5

Respect from opposition players

Voss 5
Buckley 4
Hird 4

Overall

Voss 23
Buckley 20
Hird 21

 

[Strapping Young Lad]

Voss>>Hird>>Buckley
And everyone knows it.

 

[JLC]

Where is the great one when his team sits bottom of the ladder ?

jlc

 

[Kings Army]

Voss>>Hird>>Buckley
And everyone knows it.

Agree Majority on non Essendon, Lions or Pies supporters would choose Voss then Hird and then Bucks.

 

[Williams02]

For anyone to say that bucks is better that voss and hird is terrible.... i am an essendon supporter and i would say that hird and voss for career are on a par if anything voss with his nose in front and buckley trailing a fair way behind

 

[Kings Army]

Buckley has had a far more productive (personally) career than the other two.

The others have had better cattle surrounding them, too.

Nothing to do with the cattle - Carey won us flags with out having the best cattle around him.

 

[MickZu]

Nothing to do with the cattle - Carey won us flags with out having the best cattle around him.

Trying to use facts to convince zeke.........................Good Luck!!