Can Ball say no to Melbourne?

[Chander Bing]

You brought up integrity before. I'm just suggesting your club doesn't always act with integrity, like kicking someone while they're on their way out the door.

Never ever kicked the blokes when they were going out the door. They left with handshakes.

To the Clubs they wanted to go to. As did Ryche Shaw and Chris Tarrant and Nick Davis.

 

[daics cousin]

NO CLUB WILL PICK A PLAYER WHO DOESN'T WANT TO PLAY THERE AND REFUSES A MEDICAL.

That is all Ball needs to do and he'll get to collingwood at pick 30.

 

[SaintsSeptember]

So is Chander Bing , Chandler Bing spelt wrong or what does it mean?

 

[Bealey21]

Here is my take.

St Kilda really didn't want Ball to go to Collingwood if it was not "performance neutral".

That is, St Kilda desperately did not want to contribute to Collingwood, who were reasonably close to St Kilda this year, getting closer to St Kilda next year. That is why St Kilda would be happier with letting Ball go to Melbourne for nothing, than to Collingwood for what was offered.

Personally, I would have been very interested in the Goldsack offer as I rate him and he could enable St Kilda to either transition from Jason Blake (who will be 29 next year), or move Brendan Goddard forward. But that didn't happen. Neither did any move including Nathan Brown.

These clubs operate in the real world (except Michael Voss, who trades like he's playing AFL Premiership 2006 on his PS2), and they don't move players just for the sake of it. Collingwood made some offers, none of which St Kilda found acceptable at the time. St Kilda made counter offers, which Collingwood found unacceptable. That's the way it goes - AFL clubs (except Brisbane) don't make trades lightly.


GOLD

 

[krusden]

So is Chander Bing , Chandler Bing spelt wrong or what does it mean?

I think it means "terry wallet is posting under a new name"

Thats what i reckon it means.

 

[Half Back Pocket]

Never ever kicked the blokes when they were going out the door. They left with handshakes.

To the Clubs they wanted to go to. As did Ryche Shaw and Chris Tarrant and Nick Davis.

Unfortunately, not everyone can get to the team they want. I think Robert Harvey was a mad Carlton supporter as a kid....doesn't mean he got to go there. Didn't bail out at the first sign of trouble, either.

As stated before, Ball has the opportunity to move on in 2010. Collingwood have blown their chance to secure him during Trade Week, so he will go to one of Melbourne, Richmond, Kangaroos etc. He gets his wish to move from St. Kilda....pretty fair system really.

 

[SaintsSeptember]

Unfortunately, not everyone can get to the team they want. I think Robert Harvey was a mad Carlton supporter as a kid....doesn't mean he got to go there. Didn't bail out at the first sign of trouble, either.

As stated before, Ball has the opportunity to move on in 2010. Collingwood have blown their chance to secure him during Trade Week, so he will go to one of Melbourne, Richmond, Kangaroos etc. He gets his wish to move from St. Kilda....pretty fair system really.

Wrong. Read his book its good, even for non Saints supporters. But as a kid RH and his family supported Essendon. His hero was Tim Watson .
Went to Carlton for the reason .... wait for it..... they offered him a job.

 

[KissStephanie]

It is quite clear people on here disagree, and will never agree.

I have not once seen anything compelling that supports St.Kilda's decision not to go through with the trade. That's all I have ever wanted to see, but there is nothing.

You can keep re-stating the same arguments, or do something else. The "KissStephanie" nut is not for cracking. Time to move on.

I'm standing firm because I believe that this trade should have gone ahead. It was not Collingwood's fault, and I feel that St.Kilda deliberately did not want to deal with Collingwood, and they screwed Luke Ball. I have yet to see anything that changes my opinion. I feel that if anybody disagrees with me, then they are either ignorant of what had occurred, or in denial of it.

Collingwood stood at their buying price; fair enough.

That's not what happened. Collingwood tried a number of options to satisfy St.Kilda. They were all rejected. Where are you getting this information from? Are you just making it up?

St Kilda stood on their asking price; fair enough.

No they didn't. They wanted Tyson Goldsack and pick #30, and then when Collingwood agreed to that, they flip-flopped. This information has been presented on numerous occasions.

That position is the absolute right of both clubs.

If that's what you believe, then it's absolutely time for free agency.

No matter what any of us think is a fair trade, it's up to the clubs involved to reach agreement. It doesn't always happen; look at O'Keefe last year.

The circumstances regarding Ryan O'Keeffe's request to join Hawthorn are not comparable to this of course. I do not recall at any time that Sydney had flip-flopped on their original request, and then unrealistically moved the goal posts on the final day of trade which then made it impossible to get the deal done in time.

I'm struggling to see the reason for the vitriol on both sides.

Oh dear. Well St.Kilda supporters don't have any reason to be upset with Collingwood because they didn't screw anybody, and nor did they stuff this trade up. The only thing that Collingwood could have done is request AFL mediation, but I have heard that it was because St.Kilda stated they were not interested in spending any further time on negotiations. They were simply not interested in trading Ball to Collingwood. St.Kilda were inept, and amateurish and they treated a respected former captain and best and fairest winner like shit.

He still has some options; it's even possible (but IMO unlikely) he'll get to Collingwood via the ND, and we'll get nothing.

Now why do you feel it's unlikely? I feel that the most likely outcome is that he will get to Collingwood in the National Draft, and I have previously shared my reasons that I feel that way. As long as he wants to play for Collingwood, which I believe is the case, and as long as Collingwood still wants him, which I believe is the case, then it will happen because current draft rules allow that.

The only way we get anything is if he re-signs with us.

There is clear bad blood between Luke Ball and Ross [strike]Liar[/strike] Lyon. That relationship is over.

Otherwise, he's gone for nought. Not ideal, but not catastrophic either.

He will be gone for nothing, and I think it is catastrophic to the fabric of a club to show such disrespect to a player that deserved more.

I reckon I might have stuck a nerve with the lying troll that is KissStephanie

Actually, I have in fact shown that is what you are with examples. You have failed to show that I have lied despite requests for you to do that, which makes you a liar. I have certainly shown that you decided to personally attack me simply based on my opinion of the topic.

That actually makes you a troll. You are clearly projecting the view that you have of yourself, and I have no interest in reading anything else that you have to say. I have been very patient, but you're now on my ignore list quite understandably. Don't bother answering any of the above questions.
__________________
"If anyone's not up for the challenge, they can walk in and tell me and I'll move them on." - flip-flopping hypocrite Ross Lyon lie - 27th September, 2009.

 

[IllBeTheJudge]

He will be gone for nothing, and I think it is catastrophic to the fabric of a club to show such disrespect to a player that deserved more

Only time will tell whether "catastrophic" is something of an exaggeration

What's the topic of this thread again? I haven't looked too hard but haven't seen much mention of Melbourne as yet

 

[evo]

does anybody actually read KissStephanie's mind numbing slabs of text?

Whatever you do, don't get her started on Hilary.

 

[Tulip]

North Melbourne would have traded pick #25 to Collingwood for Sharrod Wellingham and pick #30, even though it was a bad deal, and Collingwood were prepared to do that, but St.Kilda were not interested in pick #25! The Western Bulldogs would have reluctantly traded Andrejs Everitt for pick #21 only, so pick #22 from West Coast wouldn't have got Everitt anyway! St.Kilda were rigid and were nitpicking over three spots in the draft for nothing then.

You draft all these long posts but you seem rather uneducated. Pick 22 was a posters mistake, pick 21 was what Collingwood were chasing from NM to get the Everitt deal over the line. You think they were going for 22 when only 21 was going to be accepted. I'm quite sure they wouldn't have done that if it wasn't going to get the guy they wanted.

And Ross Lyon didn't say: ""If anyone's not up for the challenge, they can walk in and tell me and I'll move them on to the club they want, even if it means that my club will be disadvantaged and we will strengthen fellow Premiership contenders."

Get over yourself, really. Remind me why Ball is so against a Melbourne move.


__________________

 

[JeffDunne]

Whatever you do, don't get her started on Hilary.

It's like a bad Soap Opera (or should that be 'good'?)

Watch 1 in 20 episodes and you can keep up with the plot.

Collingwood's 'parrot'.

 

[JeffDunne]

St.Kilda requested Tyson Goldsack along with pick #30. Collingwood then went to talk to Goldsack about the move, and he wasn't keen to leave. He stated that he would go to St.Kilda if there was no other options that St.Kilda would accept. On the final day of trading, Collingwood agreed to this request, but St.Kilda had flip-flopped and changed their mind, which left very little time left to get any other deal done.

Even if that is true, surely it's our prerogative to change our mind since circumstances change during trade week?

Why is it so hard to understand that a team could change their mind as circumstances change?

Why does it upset you so much?

You get angry at what others see as a given.

Do you, or Collingwood for that matter, think that an offer made early in trade week will still be on the table later in the week?

I'm staggered you'd think that let alone Collingwood.

 

[KissStephanie]

You draft all these long posts but you seem rather uneducated.

So give me an example that makes you feel this way. I am sure that you won't be able to do that of course.

Pick 22 was a posters mistake

I don't know whether the poster made a mistake or was just wrong. I have already stated though that pick #22 from West Coast was not going to help at all.

pick 21 was what Collingwood were chasing from NM to get the Everitt deal over the line.

There was no way of getting pick #21 from North Melbourne, particularly at such short notice. St.Kilda changed their mind regarding Goldsack and pick #30 on Friday, which left no time to arrange anything else of course.

You think they were going for 22 when only 21 was going to be accepted.

When did I say that? I always knew that the Western Bulldogs did not want to trade Andrejs Everitt and would only do so with pick #21 or better. That pick was completely unobtainable when St.Kilda demanded it so late in trade week of course.

And Ross Lyon didn't say

I didn't say he did. He still undoubtedly lied and flip-flopped though. He also certainly didn't say "if anyone's not up for the challenge, they can walk in and tell me and I'll move them on, unless it's a required player that I don't want to lose and only if it's to a club that I choose."

If he can't keep his word, then he should not have said it, and according to what you have said, it appears that you believe St.Kilda deliberately did not want to trade with Collingwood because they felt it may have strengthened a top-4 team. Is that right? If so, then why are you patronising and insulting? It's obvious that St.Kilda stuffed this trade up, and it's time for free agency so that clubs will deal with all clubs equally.

Get over yourself, really.

Urban Dictionary: Get Over Yourself

a phrase little pussies use when they can't win an argument with a real counterpoint.

Remind me why Ball is so against a Melbourne move.

It is my opinion that he doesn't want to play for Melbourne, and I believe that his desire to play for Collingwood is stronger now than it was during trade week for reasons I have previously explained.
__________________
"If anyone's not up for the challenge, they can walk in and tell me and I'll move them on." - flip-flopping hypocrite Ross Lyon lie - 27th September, 2009.

 

[Axcellence]

Is it me or is this entire thread all about Collinwood supporters trying to claim the moral high ground?

Well, I've got one thing to say to those type of supporters... they can take the moral high ground and SHOVE IT UP THEMSELVES.

 

[JeffDunne]

LOL, that's one way of getting the final word Steph!

How often do you try this technique because I've noticed you doing it before? Is it a pathetic attempt at being heard?

It stuffs up the order of posts so please just edit and not repost!

 

[Trav 20]

It is my opinion that he doesn't want to play for Melbourne, and I believe that his desire to play for Collingwood is stronger now than it was during trade week for reasons I have previously explained.
__________________
"If anyone's not up for the challenge, they can walk in and tell me and I'll move them on." - flip-flopping hypocrite Ross Lyon lie - 27th September, 2009.

I agree, but I think you'll find that once he clearly analyses the options before him he'll either remain a Saint, or take the certainty of the PSD. Any player of Ball's calibre would want some sort of control over his destiny and he won't have that in the ND. There's just too much uncertainty over whether an interstate club will pounce prior to Collingwood's pick 30; and in fact the lions this morning have declared their interest in Ball.

Imo, he'll be wearing a Demon's guernsey next year. He'll grow to like it.

 

[Joe-time]

this is also draft tampering. If that salary cap thing was allowed or saying you will pay x but not pay this that is rorting the system. If it was that easy Melbourne wouldn't have to front end their contracts they would just do that. And the afl would easily see through this. If this is what happened the afl would jump in go "yeh that ain't gonna work, draft tampering by collingwopd and ball." have a think about it genius. If that was the case all players would simply do the same and not have o worry about trade week. God some people don't think. Collingwood, give up you guys ain't gonna get him. We will be struggling to. But if he goes in the national draft I can see someone like freo picking him up. Thus as people have said, risk the nd, go to the psd knowing melbourne will take you or re-sign with saints.
Also people get over where Melbourne are, a side who feels they have to clearly tank against the top side (saints) are a lot better off than you think. And just look at Carlton a couple of years ago and they just missed out on top 4. People need to chill.

Completely different set of rules between a normal contract/contract extension/renewal and the pre season draft.

 

[Joe-time]

Is it me or is this entire thread all about Collinwood supporters trying to claim the moral high ground?

Well, I've got one thing to say to those type of supporters... they can take the moral high ground and SHOVE IT UP THEMSELVES.

Well done superstar. Would you like a round of applause?

Let's talk about moral high ground:

John Greening.

End of story.

 

[Joe-time]

"If anyone's not up for the challenge, they can walk in and tell me and I'll move them on." - flip-flopping hypocrite Ross Lyon lie - 27th September, 2009.

 

[dan warna]

ROFL can all the collingwood supporters collect their tears, I could use them to polish my boots...

 

[dan warna]

Well done superstar. Would you like a round of applause?

Let's talk about moral high ground:

John Greening.

End of story.

now who was it who lied to the police and thus allowed a murderer to kill an innocent man...

NOW THATS the end of the story in the moral high ground stakes...

 

[Joe-time]

now who was it who lied to the police and thus allowed a murderer to kill an innocent man...

NOW THATS the end of the story in the moral high ground stakes...

What, are you talking about Didak?

If so, did Didak assault someone, unprovoked, causing them extreme physical harm?

It's funny how you guys talk about moral high ground like it's an ideal. Well, for those who are actually morally grounded, it is not an ideal. It is a set of values.

Also, I'm pretty sure that Dids does a lot of work for charity - that is, for the homeless. Helping out at food shelters and this type of thing. So for you, if it is Didak you're talking about, to have a go at a bloke like that, is a pretty low act and I think that's really disappointing for someone to question his integrity like that.

 

[Axcellence]

What, are you talking about Didak?

If so, did Didak assault someone, unprovoked, causing them extreme physical harm?

It's funny how you guys talk about moral high ground like it's an ideal. Well, for those who are actually morally grounded, it is not an ideal. It is a set of values.

Also, I'm pretty sure that Dids does a lot of work for charity - that is, for the homeless. Helping out at food shelters and this type of thing. So for you, if it is Didak you're talking about, to have a go at a bloke like that, is a pretty low act and I think that's really disappointing for someone to question his integrity like that.

I am sure Dane swan is also doing charity

 

[Joe-time]

I am sure Dane swan is also doing charity

He actually is smart arse.