Can Ball say no to Melbourne?

[KissStephanie]

I'm pretty sure there isn't any quote from either club confirming Goldsack was either asked for or offered. From what Lyon said, there were only picks on the table.

Well I heard Geoff Walsh online mention that Tyson Goldsack was agreed to on Friday, and that's not what Ross Lyin said either. He said the final offer was pick #25 and pick #62, but that was after they had rejected their initial request of Goldsack and pick #30.

From what Walsh said, the players we wanted weren't entertained by Collingwood.

No, that's not what he said. Geoff Walsh said that certain players requested by St.Kilda were not entertained by Collingwood understandably.

I keep seeing reports from outsiders which don't quote any insiders. For all we know, it could have been one of the clubs leaking false information or simply blind speculation.

Oh come on now. I think it's been well enough covered that St.Kilda requested Goldsack and pick #30 early in the week, and that Collingwood agreed once thay had convinced Goldsack to go. If you don't feel that is accurate, then please show a source to confirm it then. I am interested in reading it.

Either way, losing Ball for Goldsack and pick 30 would have been pretty ordinary.

It would have been a good and fair deal. St.Kilda would have received a second round draft pick which most commentators felt was appropriate, while a player that St.Kilda requested would have been a bonus.

I'm glad it didn't happen.

It seems to me that St.Kilda were quite happy to screw Luke Ball and flip-flop and for Ross Lyin to fail to back up his words following the Grand Final with actions, so therefore I am not surprised you feel that way.

Melbourne's debt has nothing to do with its salary cap.

I am aware of that. Luke Ball is not worth $800,000-$1,000,000 per season though. In my opinion he is worth approximately $450,000 at most. If he puts that kind of figure on his head for two seasons though in an attempt to get to Collingwood, then I do not believe that any team will pick him up because it is way over value to be paying $1,600,000-$2,000,000 for two seasons.

I don't believe that any team will pick him up anyway if he tells them that he wants to play for Collingwood beforehand, and once Collingwood picks him up, then they must pay that salary and include it in the salary cap, which they can do because there is enough room, but then he is allowed to re-negotiate the contract so that it will be a front-loaded contract. He will actually receive about $1,350,000 total or so over three seasons which is about what he is worth.

This relatively simple fact seems to have escaped you. We have to pay another $500,000 per annum just to reach the required minimum level.

I understand that Melbourne has difficulty reaching the 92.5% minimum required of the salary cap, but it doesn't matter anyway because I have only given an example of how he will be able to get to Collingwood. He can put that figure on his head and demand a longer term if he wants to so that other clubs won't select him.

Ball placing a premium on his head won't necessarily deter other suitors.

It won't do it alone, but I don't believe that other clubs will select him in the National Draft if he does not agree to join them.

It's a risk.

Of course it is, but I still believe that if he wants to play for Collingwood, which he does, and if Collingwood still wants him, which I'm sure they do, then I believe that he will get there. Collingwood were the only club to make an effort to recruit him and the only club that were willing to trade for him, so I can understand that.

Ball will want control over his destiny, which the ND can't guarantee.

I believe he will enter the National Draft in an attempt to get to Collingwood. I don't believe that Melbourne will use pick #18 on him if he doesn't want to be there along with the price and terms that he has on his head. I don't believe that the clubs that follow will select him either for the same reasons, particularly as it is the last uncompromised draft.

I am quite confident that he will be available for selection with Collingwood's pick #30. The biggest concern may be Essendon, but I also don't believe that they will select him unless he agrees to go beforehand, while I believe it will be quite easy to price Brisbane out of selecting him with pick #27 now that they are paying all of Fevola's contract. Port Adelaide won't be able to afford his contract, while Adelaide does not have the space, and West Coast and Fremantle would only get involved if he was from Western Australian, which he is not.

Of course he would like more control, but the trade to Collingwood should have been done last week. Collingwood met St.Kilda's initial request after discussions with Goldsack. Collingwood also had access to pick #25 from North Melbourne by trading Sharrod Wellingham and pick #30, even though that was a bad deal. Most commentators felt that he was worth a second round draft pick, and that is what both pick #25 and pick #30 are.

Repeat - he won't enter the ND. I look forward to bumping this thread.

Crikey, you repeated it! According to the information that I have heard which I mentioned in this post, then I am quite sure he will enter the National Draft. Repeat...I am quite sure he will enter the National Draft.

'Laying London to a brick' is a well known expression that one doesn't need to take literally. Obvious to most.

I know what it means of course, but I am so confident that he will enter the National Draft in an attempt to get to Collingwood, that I am willing to lay more than that. In fact, I have already done it.

Do you comment on everything ?

No, there are a lot of comments that I overlook, but out of curiosity, why do you have a space before a question mark? If people choose to discuss me, or mis-quote me and make up things that I have not said, or are not interested in sticking to the topic, then I put those posters on my ignore list, so of course I do not comment on everything. I am selective regarding the people that I choose to take notice of.

Which begs the question, how did the boys at school shut you up ?

Ummm...they didn't. They loved hearing me speak because I am so insightful.

I think I know the answer.

Is that right? Then elaborate on that please. I am interested to see how accurate your judgement can be. Are you willing to "lay London to a brick" that you know the answer?
__________________
"If anyone's not up for the challenge, they can walk in and tell me and I'll move them on." - flip-flopping hypocrite Ross Lyon lie - 27th September, 2009.

 

[JeffDunne]

Why do people keep using the term "last uncompromised draft"?

This draft is already more compromised than most.

I long for day we see an actual "uncompromised draft"

I long too for the day football supporters don't just regurgitate verbatim what they hear from the talking heads and actually think for themselves.

 

[Demonheart]

This thread has proven that a wall of text is no substitute for intelligence or knowledge.

One simple fact that has escaped one certain poster is that Ball cannot nominate a contract that will guarantee that he ends up at Collingwood. There are several clubs who have enough space in their cap and have picks before the pies to ensure he won't end up there.
I'll use my team as an example. With Roberton, McLean, Wheatley and Whelan leaving we have a huge amount of cap available just to reach our minimum level. Melbourne will easily be able to match anything Collingwood can afford to pay him under the cap, so this crap about re-negotiating his contract is completely irrelevent.
Bailey has also said that he won't use picks 1,2 or 11 on Ball, but he hasn't ruled out using pick 18 on him. Melbourne will use their picks on who they believe will best benefit the team and Ball fits that category at 18.

The pies should have gone harder in trade week if they were so desperate to get him, Ball is a quality player and person.

 

[JeffDunne]

I don't believe Melbourne will use pick 18 on him.

If Melbourne are going to take him and Luke is happy to go there, it would be in both their interests for Ball to use the PSD to get to Melbourne.

If he doesn't re-sign with St Kilda then I would imagine that's what will happen

 

[Mr_Vedder]

I would like to see Ball stay at the Saints. Dont think they have done a lot wrong in the situation and would not like to see them get nothing for him if he does go.

If you target a player well before trade week then have a reasonable deal organised that you can eventually settle on once all the hot air subsides. Otherwise dont bother. The days of J Hay type deals are gone and most are pretty reasonable at the time. You think someone can add to your list then pay a fair price and dont waste players and clubs times.

 

[KissStephanie]

One simple fact that has escaped one certain poster is that Ball cannot nominate a contract that will guarantee that he ends up at Collingwood.

I must have missed that poster. Who was it that said that Ball can nominate terms that will guarantee he will end up at Collingwood?

There are several clubs who have enough space in their cap and have picks before the pies to ensure he won't end up there.

I don't believe that other clubs will select him if he puts such a high price on his head and if he does not agree to go beforehand.

The pies should have gone harder in trade week if they were so desperate to get him.

Collingwood offered what St.Kilda requested. It has been reported in today's Herald-Sun that he is upset with St.Kilda for not getting the deal done. He is certainly not upset with Collingwood though, and I am sure it is still his preferred destination. In fact, I believe he is more sure of that now than he was last week.

Ball is a quality player and person.

I agree. It's such a shame that St.Kilda treated him like shit and only one of the two clubs tried to get the deal done. Ball knew that Collingwood's offer was enough, and that is the reason that he headed to Etihad Stadium to confront Ross Lyin about the hold-up. There is obvious bad blood between the two of them.

I don't believe Melbourne will use pick 18 on him.

Melbourne definitely wants him to enter the pre-season draft because they need to use their first three picks on youth. I also believe that they will not pick him in the National Draft if he states that he does not want to play there anyway.

If Melbourne are going to take him and Luke is happy to go there, it would be in both their interests for Ball to use the PSD to get to Melbourne.

I agree with you. Funny that. Melbourne will only pick him if he agrees to go beforehand, and therefore it will be in the pre-season draft, but I am quite sure he doesn't want to go to there.

If he doesn't re-sign with St Kilda then I would imagine that's what will happen

Well firstly, he doesn't have a contract to re-sign from St.Kilda. If there will be one coming, then I do not believe that he will sign it. He will enter the National Draft because there are only a couple of teams prior to Collingwood's pick #30 that he has to be concerned about, and I don't think they will pick him if he does not agree to join them beforehand.
__________________
"If anyone's not up for the challenge, they can walk in and tell me and I'll move them on." - flip-flopping hypocrite Ross Lyon lie - 27th September, 2009.

 

[dan warna]

Goldsack and pick 30 were refused at the start of the week by collingwood and put back on the table at 1pm on Friday.

KS is in la la land.

I find the tears and rage of Collingwood fans like KS a balm to my soul after a hard season

the stunning hypocrisy of Collingwood fans is amazing.

 

[Mr_Vedder]

"It is believed that Luke Ball is disgruntled............................."

Is nothing more than speculation and looking to fill up some content for people to read. I am going to laugh when he does not end up at Collingwood.

 

[dan warna]

Look as a saints fan, who would love to see Ball at the saints next year, Im pretty much thinking keeping ball is an outside hope.

That said the faux rage of the Collingwood supporters is hilarious.

Ball 75% fit is in our best 18 easily, ball 100% if he can ever get back there is in our top 10 easily.

As a team at the negotiation table at the start of the week we would have taken Goldsack and pick 30, which Collingwood said no.

During the week we picked up two midfielders, and we were still looking for a 3rd tall which was andres everitt. Footscray wanted pick 21 or so.

we told Collingwood thats what we wanted for Ball.

Collingwood said no and THEN said yes to the request at the start of the week.

st Kilda said too late.

They could have had ball at day one if they said yes to goldsack and 30.

Its bloody hilarious

 

[KissStephanie]

Goldsack and pick 30 were refused at the start of the week by collingwood and put back on the table at 1pm on Friday.

No, they said that is okay, but they needed to speak to Goldsack about the move, and he reluctantly agreed as a last resort. St.Kilda then flip-flopped. Probably because Ball confronted [strike]Lyin[/strike] Lyon about the hold-up.

KS is in la la land.

No, I'm in the City that Never Sleeps. La La Land is on the other side of the country.

I find the tears and rage of Collingwood fans like KS a balm to my soul after a hard season.

I can't speak for other Collingwood supporters, but I am not upset about this issue. I am strongly opinionated though. I believe that Ball will get to Collingwood in the National Draft though.

the stunning hypocrisy of Collingwood fans is amazing.

Such as? By the way, are you boots shiny from all of the Grand Final tears that flowed?

"It is believed that Luke Ball is disgruntled."

And for good reason. If you have a source that shows otherwise though, then please share it. I'm not holding my breath however.

Is nothing more than speculation and looking to fill up some content for people to read.

Come on now. It's based on more than just speculation. St.Kilda screwed him by flip-flopping on a deal they requested. Ross [strike]Lyin[/strike] Lyon lied about moving players on that wanted to leave. The confrontation between Ball and [strike]Lyin[/strike] Lyon at Etihad Stadium was quite possibly the reason that St.Kilda did not go ahead with the trade they requested. For an extra kick in the guts, they withdrew his contract offer as well.

I am going to laugh when he does not end up at Collingwood.

Carlton supporters rarely get joy about anything, and I don't expect there to be much next season either. I strongly believe there is more chance of him getting to Collingwood than any other club, so I don't think you will get any joy out of that either!
__________________
"If anyone's not up for the challenge, they can walk in and tell me and I'll move them on." - flip-flopping hypocrite Ross Lyon lie - 27th September, 2009.

 

[JeffDunne]

Most St Kilda people I reckon would be happy to see Luke return.

It's an interesting one because I reckon most fans understand why he'd want to leave and don't begrudge him that given what he's done for us in the past. Self preservation rather than self interest seems to be the motivation.

Can't imagine too many wouldn't welcome him back with open arms.

Personally I think Ross did the right thing in not trading for a player and a pick that aren't going to make us better next year and keeping the door open with Luke. Collingwod's offer wasn't worth shutting the door completely.

 

[Alatna]

St.Kilda requested Tyson Goldsack and pick #30, and then Collingwood said okay, but had to persuade him to join St.Kilda to get the deal done, but he didn't want to leave! A few days later he stated that he would reluctantly go if there was no other alternative.Not at any stage did Collingwood say no to St.Kilda's request of Goldsack and pick #30.

Collingwood agreed to the Goldsack, pick 30 trade at, what was it, 1pm on Friday? Leaving St Kilda no time to conduct a medical.

 

[JeffDunne]

It says a lot about the two clubs too that Collingwood supporters are more upset than St Kilda supporters about a player they've never had.

Desperate much?

 

[dan warna]

KS, the offer was one for Goldsack at pick 30 at the start of the week, Collingwood didn't say yes then. when they said yes at about 1pm on Friday it was too late.

He won't get to Collingwood in either draft, too many other teams before Collingwood would love someone of Ball's calibre there.

Of course Im upset about losing the GF but both Geelong and St Kilda comfortably accounted for Collingwood, basically by smashing your soft midfield.

the Contract was withdrawn because ball turned it down.

when people start listening to "facts" from KS and Paul Connors you know its only a matter of time before those same people say "Hutchy" is an incisive sports reporter and Patrick Smith is still an athlete

 

[JeffDunne]

No, I'm in the City that Never Sleeps.

Steph, reckon you could do us all a favour?

I believe Luke's in town this week so the two of you could hook up.

15 mins with you and I reckon there's not a chance in hell he'd sign with Collingwood!

 

[dan warna]

On the flip side Ball's partner is stylish and educated, she can teach the Collingwood WaGs to drink out of a wine glass and not a stubby, how to put on make up without looking like a crack whore AND maybe even how to read and write...

 

[JeffDunne]

On the flip side Ball's partner is stylish and educated, she can teach the Collingwood WaGs to drink out of a wine glass and not a stubby, how to put on make up without looking like a crack whore AND maybe even how to read and write...

Have you met Steph Dan?

 

[paulcar]

KS, I will in your town later next month. Care for a drink? I honestly don't know if we'll get Ball. Trade week would have been the perfect setting to get him while regardless if he nominates for the PSD or ND (though understand the merits of ND over PSD), we're now relying on a number of permutations and combinations for us to get him - it will really depend on the other clubs who have first rights to him. Agree, would a club want to pick up a player who says "can't guarantee I will be motivated to provide you with an A rate service". I'm still happy that we secured Jolly as he was a our first recruiting priority over LB. He will give us great access at centre bounces and clearances. Pendles, Swan, Sidey, Beams are not exactly c-rate centremen and I like the way Jarrad Blight played his footy in the seconds. He could step up and play a valuable contribution in the seniors at centre clearances. Cheesy O'Bree must be history. Like the bloke, but his days must be numbered.

 

[Trav 20]

Is that right? Then elaborate on that please.
__________________
"If anyone's not up for the challenge, they can walk in and tell me and I'll move them on." - flip-flopping hypocrite Ross Lyon lie - 27th September, 2009.

Put it this way; if your nostrils were squeezed at the same time then your eyes would be wide open.

 

[Joffaboy]

This is hilarious.

KS using quotes from the Herald Sun to validate her wild and deluded claims

1) Goldsack and #30 asked for by the Saints on Monday

2) Saints pick up Lovett and Peake during the week.

3) Panicked by their ongoing incompetence Collingwood say to the Saints with an hour to go of the trade week - OK we will give you Goldsack and #30.

4) Scenario had changed during the week - something Collingwood obviously failed to grasp.

5) Saints say - circumstances have changed bad luck filth. Suck it up you areshit traders and you lose another player.

6) KS has a nervey turn - refueses to accept her club are terrible traders and then uses media spin to validate her delusions of reality.

7) We all laugh at the increased hysteria the delusion all unravels in front of her eyes.

Oh and I heard that Ball is now gruntled as opposed to disgruntled

Carry on

 

[Dez!]

What's with the Collingwood supporter saying "I'm pretty sure that Luke doesn't want to go to Melbourne"?

He nominated Collingwood during trade week as his first preference it wasn't never stated and has never been stated that he doesn't want to play anywhere else.

Really is a stupid thing to say otherwise until Paul Connors or Luke Ball says otherwise.

 

[McOrist]

This is hilarious.

KS using quotes from the Herald Sun to validate her wild and deluded claims

1) Goldsack and #30 asked for by the Saints on Monday

2) Saints pick up Lovett and Peake during the week.

3) Panicked by their ongoing incompetence Collingwood say to the Saints with an hour to go of the trade week - OK we will give you Goldsack and #30.

4) Scenario had changed during the week - something Collingwood obviously failed to grasp.

5) Saints say - circumstances have changed bad luck filth. Suck it up you areshit traders and you lose another player.

6) KS has a nervey turn - refueses to accept her club are terrible traders and then uses media spin to validate her delusions of reality.

7) We all laugh at the increased hysteria the delusion all unravels in front of her eyes.

Oh and I heard that Ball is now gruntled as opposed to disgruntled

Carry on

-can't lose what we never had! He's on his way to Melbourne -good luck to them. The only loser in this are the Aints. Former Captain, B&F winner and 25 year old 'great bloke' walks out the door and goes to another club for free. Don't expect any postcards from NYC.

 

[St DAC]

At this stage he hasn't actually gone anywhere ...

 

[dan warna]

-can't lose what we never had! He's on his way to Melbourne -good luck to them. The only loser in this are the Aints. Former Captain, B&F winner and 25 year old 'great bloke' walks out the door and goes to another club for free. Don't expect any postcards from NYC.

Then why are the Collingwood fans QQing so much?

Even the saints fans didn't QQ this much when we lost the grand final.

move on nothing to see here except bitter Collingwood fans crying because st Kilda wouldn't play with Collingwood and everyone else laughing at collingwood...

 

[unstable punt]

It's a draft. You go to whatever team picks you. His option is to avoid the draft and stay with the saints.

which is what he will do I reckon