Can lions get back into the 8 this year or does one more year needed?

[WCE29#]

everyone knows the answer, they call him Brown

 

[Audacious]

If you back history to repeat itself you are rarely wrong, and when you are wrong a lot of other people tend to be wrong with you.

And history says young teams that blitz the NAB Cup tend to start strong in the regular season and then wilt badly after about round 4 or 5. History also says that poor defences are rarely found out in the NAB Cup but become more and more of a problem as the season progresses.

For both those reasons i think the Lions will become a good side soon, and will have some good victories this year, but will be in the bottom 4 again in 2007 anyway.

agree with everything youve said. They have some good young players but they need 2 years minimum to develop. I have them pencilled in for bottom 4, and even if Jono Brown plays 22 games, they wont make the 8.

 

[fightingdreamer88]

Not sure about the Lions at this stage myself. I find it so tough to jump to conclusions from pre season form because, as we all know, it can be completely misleading. They've got some talented young players and I think that had they held onto a few of their important senior players (Aker and Michael especially) they could have given the finals a crack this year. I think the loss of that learning oppourtunity with senior blokes gone will mean they just miss the 8. Stranger things have happened though.

 

[Lions43]

Meant 3-5 years.

When it comes down to it, it is only natural for a supporter to view their own players in high regard.
It's not like a supporter who has seen promising signs from a player is going to write them off. Fair enough too.
Personally though from an outsiders point of view I don't think much of them.
As I said before, quality players, but in my opinion not future stars.
I've stated my opinion and I've given you all reasons why.
Not much point in going around in circles though is there?

Look I think you're probably right in most respects. Certainly I think we will have our work cut out making the 8 for another couple of years. I agree with you when you say "it is only natural for a supporter to view their own players in high regard." You clearly do that yourself by rating Thomas as a player who can turn a game on his own at this stage. Promising sure, but I think turning a game on his own is something you are hopeful he might be able to do in the future because he hasn't done it yet in his career (which admittedly is very short). Frankly, if Sherman hasn't shown a fair bit more than Thomas to this point then I'm a Dutchman but you probably watch every Collingwood game very closely and maybe every 2nd Brisbane game whereas Brisbane supporters watch their team week in week out.

I think most fair observers would say Sherman has done more on the park than anyone else from the 2004 draft at this stage including Deledio. Not saying he is the best player from the 2004 draft as some of the KPP's will keep improving but by just about any statistical measure Sherman would be right near the top of the list from the 2004 draft. His output was significantly more than that of Thomas in 2006 but to be fair he has had one extra year in the system. Thomas looks like he'll be a fine player but I would not swap him for Sherman.

 

[weevil]

Look I think you're probably right in most respects. Certainly I think we will have our work cut out making the 8 for another couple of years. I agree with you when you say "it is only natural for a supporter to view their own players in high regard." You clearly do that yourself by rating Thomas as a player who can turn a game on his own at this stage. Promising sure, but I think turning a game on his own is something you are hopeful he might be able to do in the future because he hasn't done it yet in his career (which admittedly is very short). Frankly, if Sherman hasn't shown a fair bit more than Thomas to this point then I'm a Dutchman but you probably watch every Collingwood game very closely and maybe every 2nd Brisbane game whereas Brisbane supporters watch their team week in week out.

I think most fair observers would say Sherman has done more on the park than anyone else from the 2004 draft at this stage including Deledio. Not saying he is the best player from the 2004 draft as some of the KPP's will keep improving but by just about any statistical measure Sherman would be right near the top of the list from the 2004 draft. His output was significantly more than that of Thomas in 2006 but to be fair he has had one extra year in the system. Thomas looks like he'll be a fine player but I would not swap him for Sherman.

The thing is that he has made pronouncements about our list when he doesn’t actually seem to know much about it. In the couple of specifics he did mention he randomly includes Selwood into our list of senior players and took it as a given that Thomas is in some exalted class above Sherman. Doesn’t exactly inspire me with confidence that he is up to speed at all.

He might be right; I’ve got no problem at all with someone having a difference of opinion. If they back it up with solid reasoned argument.

I have been following Brisbane since they begun, haven’t been this excited about a group of young players since the mid 90s.

 

[roostersgal4eva]

With Regards to our backline, I think Bradshaw will play back this year

Parallel Andy has his/her right to an opinion - being a a collingwood fan who hasnt seen our list like we have, I will take his with a grain of salt

 

[skilts]

I doubt they can make the 8 this year. The scenario I see unfolding is that the young blokes will have an unexpectedly good first half of the season, but then the wear and tear will bring them back to the field.

 

[POBT]

I doubt they can make the 8 this year. The scenario I see unfolding is that the young blokes will have an unexpectedly good first half of the season, but then the wear and tear will bring them back to the field.

I agree. The style of football we played on Friday night only reinforced that. It is a physically and mentally demanding style and it would be immensely difficult to maintain it over an entire season with our immature side.

I'm not so concerned about making the 8. It is far more important to be considered a genuine threat to the flag. We are at least 2 years from that point.

 

[Parallel Andy]

In the couple of specifics he did mention he randomly includes Selwood into our list of senior players

Can you please respond to what I have written and not what you believe to be my intentions.
I merely said that he as well as some others will peak in 3-5 years.
Brown will be 28-30yo. Charman will be 27-29yo. Power will be 30-32yo. Selwood will be 25-27yo.
If anything I was ignorant of the age of Power.
Didn't realise he was already 27.
Still though I think Powers best footy is ahead of him.

 

[weevil]

Can you please respond to what I have written and not what you believe to be my intentions.
I merely said that he as well as some others will peak in 3-5 years.
Brown will be 28-30yo. Charman will be 27-29yo. Power will be 30-32yo. Selwood will be 25-27yo.
If anything I was ignorant of the age of Power.
Didn't realise he was already 27.
Still though I think Powers best footy is ahead of him.

[Sigh] Andy, I do not know why you are getting so defensive. Sorry I haven’t agreed with your opinion, look back at what I have written, I think I have asked perfectly reasonable questions.

I am going to question your credibility if you make statements about our list when it appears that you don’t know a hell of a lot about it. You still don’t even seem to understand why including Selwood in the context you did is so strange.

I asked you questions because I genuinely do not understand your intentions. To me many of your answers have seemed pretty vague and evasive. And the couple of times you have been specific there have been some pretty basic errors.

I disagree with you and have asked you to back up your opinions. That is about all there is to it.

 

[Helix]

I agree. The style of football we played on Friday night only reinforced that. It is a physically and mentally demanding style and it would be immensely difficult to maintain it over an entire season with our immature side.

I'm not so concerned about making the 8. It is far more important to be considered a genuine threat to the flag. We are at least 2 years from that point.

I agree as well. Personally I feel that this year is the ideal time to get more games into the young guys, as we did last year. I think we will hold out a little longer than last year, but we will still burn out earlier than is required.

We need to start preparing for the next wave of retirements, Lappin, Scott, and Johnson. We need to form new leadership groups and maturing before making desperate lunges for the eight.

 

[Parallel Andy]

[Sigh] Andy, I do not know why you are getting so defensive. Sorry I haven’t agreed with your opinion, look back at what I have written, I think I have asked perfectly reasonable questions.

I am going to question your credibility if you make statements about our list when it appears that you don’t know a hell of a lot about it. You still don’t even seem to understand why including Selwood in the context you did is so strange.

I asked you questions because I genuinely do not understand your intentions. To me many of your answers have seemed pretty vague and evasive. And the couple of times you have been specific there have been some pretty basic errors.

I disagree with you and have asked you to back up your opinions. That is about all there is to it.

I made it pretty clear why Selwood was included in that group
(ieeaking in 3-5 years, hence that is when i think Brisbane will make the 8 again).
Not that complicated.

 

[Warwick]

Warwick, you need to pull your head in.

Ummm ok, what did I say?

 

[Papa G]

The whole competition benefited from both Port and Brisbane being crap last year. Many of the lesser clubs like Richmond, Hawthorn, Kangaroos (yes I know they beat us regardless), Collingwood and even to a lesser extent the Bulldogs did not face the same daunting task playing us as the did in the past because both Brissy and Port were crap. If Port and Brisbane have much improved seasons, it will once again become hard for these teams to come to Footy Park and the Gabba. Couple this with the relative strength of the 4 other non Vic sides, these pretender teams that I have named above (bar perhaps the dogs) will find out where they really stand. IMO Port and Brisbane will have the greatest say in shaping the bottom half of the 8.

 

[weevil]

I made it pretty clear why Selwood was included in that group
(ieeaking in 3-5 years, hence that is when i think Brisbane will make the 8 again).
Not that complicated.

I don’t think it is complicated, I just don’t think it makes nay sense.

Why have a list of senior star players and then for no reason particular put a very mid range kid in the middle of it?

Why is a player like Selwood peeking so important to us? There is a bucket load of kids way above him in the pecking order.

And why do you think he will peek in the mid 20s when you reckon our other players will peek when they are 30?

I am not trying to be aggressive. It just doesn’t sound like you have thought about any of this very much.

 

[weevil]

Ummm ok, what did I say?

Yeah, I was wondering about that one too...

 

[rugmop]

I agree as well. Personally I feel that this year is the ideal time to get more games into the young guys, as we did last year. I think we will hold out a little longer than last year, but we will still burn out earlier than is required.

We need to start preparing for the next wave of retirements, Lappin, Scott, and Johnson. We need to form new leadership groups and maturing before making desperate lunges for the eight.

You've hit upon a vital point. I think we're going to have to accept that it may be highly unlikely that a lot of our now-senior players can be part of a resurgent Lions. They'll simply be too old. Our real problem is the lack of quality players in the 22 - 26 age bracket, being the result of so many years of lesser draft picks.

I think we've done as well as we could with whom we've selected, but I don't see a group of 4 champions of the competition in this age group who will emerge within the next four years. I'm pretty sure the coaching panel realises this too. They'd be stupid not to use those who've played in so many epic victories for the club, to make the players we do have, better than they might otherwise have been. I just don't think these teachers will be part of that ultimate success. If they are, that will mean we're ahead of schedule and Matthews & co. can be rightly acknowledged as possessing genius, once again.

I think the crucial thing is that the club and its supporters display patience with what may be a slow process. Despite our own prolonged era of success, the chances of winning a premiership are going to be distributed more widely among all of the clubs. I see this as a good thing. If we happen to make the finals this season you won't hear me complaining though. Early indications are that we're going to be at least competitive. The buggers have tried their hearts out so far this season and I've never asked more than that from my team.

 

[johnnyhoward]

Brisbane are a good side with Brown in there, he's the Andrew Johns of the AFL, such a key player.

Early last season they won a few games on the trot by big margins and he was instrumental in those games. Hope to see him back at his best this year.

 

[berlinswans]

Not a bad team, but there a lot of good teams.
Sherman, Power, Black = guns
But a chance for the 8 depends on Browny being fit for most of the season, but he won't be, so no chance.

 

[Pancakes]

Funny how once the AFL started to reduce the extra salary cap room the Lions got they have slid down the ladder.

Lions will have to find a way to get an AFL assisted advantage if they want to get back into the eight again.

 

[Chasing the Dream]

Funny how once the AFL started to reduce the extra salary cap room the Lions got they have slid down the ladder.

Lions will have to find a way to get an AFL assisted advantage if they want to get back into the eight again.

Arrh, the sweet creaking sound of Pandoras Box being opened.

Nice words coming from one whose club is seeking Salary Cap allowances ATM.

Looks like the rest of this thread will be hijacked by the old chestnut 'Salary Cap' trolls.

BTW. The Lions will make the 8 this year (**reopens the other eye***)






I think.

 

[Butane]

Yea, i doubt they can do it. But you can never write off a team that has J.Brown, Black, L Power, Lappin and Bradshaw.

 

[davewarr]

Heh, lions will win 4 out of the 5 next wooden spoons.

 

[beatnik]

Parallel Andy

i accept that you were just offering your opinion rather than trying to start a club v club bunfight

your original post was pretty tame - you rated most of Brisbane's young players somewhere between 'quality' and 'classy' and no-one appears to have taken issue with that...the problem is that you have categorically ruled out the possibility of any top-shelf players among the young Lions while claiming that Collingwood had many of these players and when asked to name them, you decided you didn't want to get too club v club

given the efforts of players like Sherman or Riska in the past 12 months, can you really expect a such a statement (i.e. "Thomas will be top shelf but Shermo/Riska won't") not to be challenged? can you really expect Weevil not ask you what you were basing your assessments on?

anyway my thoughts on the issue are:

top 8

2007 - like other Lions posters here, i believe we will be in the race for the 8 for a good part of this season but we may fade slightly towards the run home with youth and injury etc

2008 - we will definitely be top 8 next season

3-5 years time? personally I think we will be challenging for a flag in 3-5 rather than sniffing around the 8 as you suggest

peace

 

[beatnik]

Heh, lions will win 4 out of the 5 next wooden spoons.

maybe you're right but i'd say the 22 fellas in blue jerseys who chased them around the park last weekend would disagree