Opinion Can't kick, can't play football

[Byrons Firen]

Many of our midfielders have very flawed kicking techniques. Sometimes it is very difficult to train this out of a player as their bio-mechanics are hard-wired - i have a couple of sons who are very talented but cant kick, despite endless hours of training/re-education.

Some observations ;

1) some of our players (eg boak, wines, gray/s) have terrible techniques (eg dont stand over the ball enough and dont guide it low enough onto their boot)
2) they are either too pig-headed to change, we have a poor kicking coach or their natural bio-mechanics are unable to be modified in the heat of a game
3) we should not have recruited so many players like this - perhaps can carry 1 eg like Hawthorn did with Brad Sewell
4) we will keep losing winnable games because of this issue
5) and last, im sick to death of watching kicks sail over forwards heads

All of what you say is true. We are excruciating to watch at times.

 

[RussellEbertHandball]

AFL website has an article on best and worst set shots for goals at each club. They include shots that didn't score ie fell short and didn't make the distance, punch back into play on the line, out of bounce and out of bounds on the full. Dont know how big Dix's shot when called to play on against Geelong was classified. At Port its the following 2

http://www.afl.com.au/news/2017-08-23/bankers-or-shankers-your-clubs-best-and-worst-set-shots
Best: Charlie Dixon (67 shots, 39 goals, 17 behinds, 11 misses, 58 per cent accuracy)
The Power key forward is one of the best contested marking players in the competition, hence why 39 of his 42 goals have come from set shots. Accuracy in front of goal has been one of the Power's big problems this season, with Dixon being the most reliable at 58 per cent saying a lot.

Worst: Justin Westhoff (14 shots, 5 goals, 6 behinds, 3 misses, 36 per cent accuracy)
The veteran swingman has struggled in front of goals this season. Westhoff has looked to pass off to a teammate anytime he is within 50m of goal. He is much more comfortable pulling off the spectacular, like he did with his volley in China, rather than lining up from a set shot. - Lee Gaskin
http://www.afl.com.au/news/2017-08-23/bankers-or-shankers-your-clubs-best-and-worst-set-shots

Charlie has a lot of set shots. Most other teams best converter is from a relatively small amount. So of his scoring conversions he's going at 69.6% for his 39 goals 17 behinds. Here are the best shot converters for each club. All these guys are between 10 and 24 shots. and apart from 3 players, are better than 2 out 3 at converting. We don't have a player who has had only 10, 15 or 20 set shots and have kicked it at more than 58%. Its an indictment on our players ability to kick for goal.

Best: Rory Sloane (11 shots, 9 goals, 2 behinds, 0 misses, 82 per cent accuracy)
Best: Ryan Bastinac (14 shots, 12 goals, one behind, one miss, 86%)
Best: Matthew Wright (21 shots, 13 goals, 4 behinds, 4 misses, 62 per cent accuracy)
Best: Mason Cox and Jordan De Goey (10 shots, 8 goals, 2 behinds, 0 misses, 80 per cent accuracy)
Best: Tom Bellchambers (10 shots, 8 goals, 2 behinds, 0 misses, 80 per cent accuracy)
Best: Lachie Neale (11 shots, 8 goals, 3 behinds, 0 misses, 73 per cent accuracy)
Best: Daniel Menzel (24 shots, 19 goals, 3 behinds, 2 missed, 79 per cent accuracy)
Best: Callum Ah Chee (12 shots, 10 goals, one behind, one miss, 83%)
Best: Rory Lobb (15 shots, 14 goals, 4 behinds, 1 missed, 74%)
Best: Ben McEvoy (15 shots, 13 goals, one behind, one miss, 87 per cent)
Best: Tom McDonald (23 shots, 18 goals, four behinds, one miss, 78 per cent accuracy)
Best: Todd Goldstein (11 shots, 8 goals, 3 behinds, 0 misses, 73%)
Best: Dustin Martin (18 shots, 11 goals, six behinds, one miss, 61 per cent)
Best: Blake Acres (11 shots, 9 goals, 1 behinds, 1 miss, 82%)
Best: George Hewett (12 shots, 8 goals, 1 behinds, 3 missed, 67%)
Best: Drew Petrie (13 shots, 9 goals, 3 behinds, 1 miss, 69 per cent accuracy)
Best: Lachie Hunter (14 shots, nine goals, three behinds, two misses, 64 per cent accuracy)

This is why Adelaide kick a lot of goals. Look at the stats of their worst set shot goal kick
Worst: Charlie Cameron (26 shots, 11 goals, 10 behinds, 5 misses, 42 per cent accuracy)


The Hoff is in line with Stevie J
Worst: Steve Johnson (14 shots, 5 goals, 7 behinds, 2 missed, 36%)

The worst by a long way is
Worst: Will Langford (17 shots, two goals, nine behinds, six misses, 12 per cent)

 

[RussellEbertHandball]

It happened again tonight. Shit house kicking and bloody poor entries inside 50 and shit house goal kicking.

Eddie Dingle sent me a txt at quarter time which said kicking efficiency was 51%. You cant bloody win a game of footy with that sort of ratshit kicking. How are you supposed to win a final at home when you kick like that.

And FMD when a point would have been good enough to win te game we cant even ****en kick that!!.

If Port wants to engage me better, then show me heaps of videos of all our players improving on their goal kicking and kicking in general. I dont give a stuff if the so called experts are giving away their IP, because I doubt their IP is that valuable, because it ain't working.

 

[PowerBaz]

It happened again tonight. Shit house kicking and bloody poor entries inside 50 and shit house goal kicking.

Eddie Dingle sent me a txt at quarter time which said kicking efficiency was 51%. You cant bloody win a game of footy with that sort of ratshit kicking. How are you supposed to win a final at home when you kick like that.

And FMD when a point would have been good enough to win te game we cant even ****en kick that!!.

If Port wants to engage me better, then show me heaps of videos of all our players improving on their goal kicking and kicking in general. I dont give a stuff if the so called experts are giving away their IP, because I doubt their IP is that valuable, because it ain't working.

Still think Eddy has something to offer with the right game plan. Will he be here next year?

 

[Magus]

It happened again tonight. Shit house kicking and bloody poor entries inside 50 and shit house goal kicking.

Eddie Dingle sent me a txt at quarter time which said kicking efficiency was 51%. You cant bloody win a game of footy with that sort of ratshit kicking. How are you supposed to win a final at home when you kick like that.

And FMD when a point would have been good enough to win te game we cant even ****en kick that!!.

If Port wants to engage me better, then show me heaps of videos of all our players improving on their goal kicking and kicking in general. I dont give a stuff if the so called experts are giving away their IP, because I doubt their IP is that valuable, because it ain't working.

I'm sure they have no problem nailing those shots during training. The problem is the game plan that has us kicking from tight angles and has Dixon running the length of the ground to get his hands on it.

 

[ctpower]

It happened again tonight. Shit house kicking and bloody poor entries inside 50 and shit house goal kicking.

Eddie Dingle sent me a txt at quarter time which said kicking efficiency was 51%. You cant bloody win a game of footy with that sort of ratshit kicking. How are you supposed to win a final at home when you kick like that.

And FMD when a point would have been good enough to win te game we cant even ****en kick that!!.

If Port wants to engage me better, then show me heaps of videos of all our players improving on their goal kicking and kicking in general. I dont give a stuff if the so called experts are giving away their IP, because I doubt their IP is that valuable, because it ain't working.

So true all this.
What I've give for two jarrod Schofield in place of guys like impey, Neade and sam grey.
At the end of the day those guys will never improve their foot skills to a level we need. We need personnel changes either by free agency or draft/trade.

 

[OneGreatClub]

It happened again tonight. Shit house kicking and bloody poor entries inside 50 and shit house goal kicking.

Eddie Dingle sent me a txt at quarter time which said kicking efficiency was 51%. You cant bloody win a game of footy with that sort of ratshit kicking. How are you supposed to win a final at home when you kick like that.

And FMD when a point would have been good enough to win te game we cant even ****en kick that!!.

If Port wants to engage me better, then show me heaps of videos of all our players improving on their goal kicking and kicking in general. I dont give a stuff if the so called experts are giving away their IP, because I doubt their IP is that valuable, because it ain't working.

They need to train to kick when under pressure AND totally exhausted because that's our game style.

 

[LFC2010]

100% this

 

[Jojay]

Impey dropping that chest mark 30m out with no one near him was ... and then the ball bouncing off him to the advantage of the eagles... I don't even...

The kid's had a putrid year in so many ways. I hope he can bounce back

 

[Janus]

Apparently we spent 80% of our time this pre-season doing ball work.

Must have been handball work because it sure as shit wasn't kicking.

 

[JimmyBeerCans]

Apparently we spent 80% of our time this pre-season doing ball work.

Must have been handball work because it sure as shit wasn't kicking.

Can't execute by foot all ya fancy gameplans are worth jackshit there's a reason Clarkson made elite ball use the deciding factor in his drafting strategy.

 

[VineValerian]

A
Must have been handball work because it sure as shit wasn't kicking.

Nor picking the ball up one grab and dishing off reflex handballs to players in space, instead of triple fumbles then falling over and having the ball ripped off you!

 

[ctpower]

Impey dropping that chest mark 30m out with no one near him was ... and then the ball bouncing off him to the advantage of the eagles... I don't even...

The kid's had a putrid year in so many ways. I hope he can bounce back

Me too just not with Pafc.

 

[RussellEbertHandball]

Good article on kicking issues this year. Looks like One reason for WCE's improvement is their HBFers are the 2nd and 3rd best kicks in the league so far this year.

Kicking has never been more valuable and there’s a surprise No.1
THE sceptics argue that footy has never been uglier — and the Herald Sun has evidence to support them. Kicking efficiency across the competition is languishing at 64.9 per cent — the lowest ever recorded by analyst Champion Data.

Where once attacking play was king, defence now sits on footy’s throne. Ball movement is being choked by congestion and the fundamental art of kicking has been poisoned by pressure. Statistically, teams are applying more defensive heat on their opposition than ever before. A good kick has never been more valuable. The key measurement of a player’s ability by foot is his kick rating. Eight rounds into the season, Charlie Cameron is considered the league’s best ball user by foot, with the former Crows goalsneak making a seamless transition to life at the Brisbane Lions. But Gold Coast supporters should feel nervous when David Swallow has the ball.
http://www.adelaidenow.com.au/sport...1/news-story/5cc2f7abbc363f238b97e8dd53e12d2a

How it works

The midfielder has hit 37.7 per cent of targets this season, well below his expected hit rate of 48.7 per cent given the difficulty of the kicks he’s attempted. Using 75 kicks as a minimum requirement, the kick rating factors in how much pressure a player is under and what sort of kick he’s trying to pull off. It gives Swallow a kick rating of -11 per cent. Players who chip the ball sideways and backwards might have a high success rate, but their kick rating won’t soar because they are hitting expected targets. There’s a sprinkling of rebounding half-backs among the competition’s best kicks. Brad Sheppard and Shannon Hurn rank No.2 and No.3 respectively in a West Coast side that has bolted to a 7-1 season start on the back of bold ball
movement now rarely seen.

There is a table of all 18 clubs' best and worst rated kicks in 2018. No real surprise with Port's 2
Club.............. Best Kick Worst Kick
Port Adelaide Dan Houston Ollie Wines

 

[GremioPower]

Good article on kicking issues this year. Looks like One reason for WCE's improvement is their HBFers are the 2nd and 3rd best kicks in the league so far this year.

Kicking has never been more valuable and there’s a surprise No.1
THE sceptics argue that footy has never been uglier — and the Herald Sun has evidence to support them. Kicking efficiency across the competition is languishing at 64.9 per cent — the lowest ever recorded by analyst Champion Data.

Where once attacking play was king, defence now sits on footy’s throne. Ball movement is being choked by congestion and the fundamental art of kicking has been poisoned by pressure. Statistically, teams are applying more defensive heat on their opposition than ever before. A good kick has never been more valuable. The key measurement of a player’s ability by foot is his kick rating. Eight rounds into the season, Charlie Cameron is considered the league’s best ball user by foot, with the former Crows goalsneak making a seamless transition to life at the Brisbane Lions. But Gold Coast supporters should feel nervous when David Swallow has the ball.
http://www.adelaidenow.com.au/sport...1/news-story/5cc2f7abbc363f238b97e8dd53e12d2a

How it works


View attachment 497866



There is a table of all 18 clubs' best and worst rated kicks in 2018. No real surprise with Port's 2
Club.............. Best Kick Worst Kick
Port Adelaide Dan Houston Ollie Wines

Kicking is worse because there is not enough time to kick, is that it? How about set shots? Any difference?

Moreover, handballing to move away from congestions does make a lot of sense. Offenses will get the upperhand eventually, as they begin to move faster.

 

[RussellEbertHandball]

Kicking is worse because there is not enough time to kick, is that it? How about set shots? Any difference?

That's part of it. The article doesn't address set shots but they haven't improved. The Saint Kilda full forward kicked 1 goal 5 behinds on Saturday night all from set shots and he is a decent kick for goal.

Fatigue is a big factor with set shots as well as field kicking, but increased defensive pressure, ie less time to kick, is the biggest impact on field kicking.

The game has come a long way in the last 40 years and especially since 2000 when the players went 100% full time. The one thing that hasn't improved is goal kicking and I reckon that's because a combo of players being more fatigued from more running and more tackling, especially forwards, and the sports science guys not letting players do too much goal kicking practice.

 

[Lagooner]

Good article on kicking issues this year. Looks like One reason for WCE's improvement is their HBFers are the 2nd and 3rd best kicks in the league so far this year.

Kicking has never been more valuable and there’s a surprise No.1
THE sceptics argue that footy has never been uglier — and the Herald Sun has evidence to support them. Kicking efficiency across the competition is languishing at 64.9 per cent — the lowest ever recorded by analyst Champion Data.

Where once attacking play was king, defence now sits on footy’s throne. Ball movement is being choked by congestion and the fundamental art of kicking has been poisoned by pressure. Statistically, teams are applying more defensive heat on their opposition than ever before. A good kick has never been more valuable. The key measurement of a player’s ability by foot is his kick rating. Eight rounds into the season, Charlie Cameron is considered the league’s best ball user by foot, with the former Crows goalsneak making a seamless transition to life at the Brisbane Lions. But Gold Coast supporters should feel nervous when David Swallow has the ball.
http://www.adelaidenow.com.au/sport...1/news-story/5cc2f7abbc363f238b97e8dd53e12d2a

How it works


View attachment 497866



There is a table of all 18 clubs' best and worst rated kicks in 2018. No real surprise with Port's 2
Club.............. Best Kick Worst Kick
Port Adelaide Dan Houston Ollie Wines

On the flipside GC occupies the top 3 for the AFL’s worst kicks. We really should kill them this week.

 

[Power Raid]

Good article on kicking issues this year. Looks like One reason for WCE's improvement is their HBFers are the 2nd and 3rd best kicks in the league so far this year.

Kicking has never been more valuable and there’s a surprise No.1
THE sceptics argue that footy has never been uglier — and the Herald Sun has evidence to support them. Kicking efficiency across the competition is languishing at 64.9 per cent — the lowest ever recorded by analyst Champion Data.

Where once attacking play was king, defence now sits on footy’s throne. Ball movement is being choked by congestion and the fundamental art of kicking has been poisoned by pressure. Statistically, teams are applying more defensive heat on their opposition than ever before. A good kick has never been more valuable. The key measurement of a player’s ability by foot is his kick rating. Eight rounds into the season, Charlie Cameron is considered the league’s best ball user by foot, with the former Crows goalsneak making a seamless transition to life at the Brisbane Lions. But Gold Coast supporters should feel nervous when David Swallow has the ball.
http://www.adelaidenow.com.au/sport...1/news-story/5cc2f7abbc363f238b97e8dd53e12d2a

How it works


View attachment 497866



There is a table of all 18 clubs' best and worst rated kicks in 2018. No real surprise with Port's 2
Club.............. Best Kick Worst Kick
Port Adelaide Dan Houston Ollie Wines

the rebound nature of the tigers and eagles of HB is amazing. Port may need to look at these sides strategies, especially the eagles who like Port have a weak midfield. They make up for this by absorbing pressure and attacking fast on the rebound with pin point accurate passing, speed and spread from HB.

 

[Shaucob_Burjan]

My eye test says that Ebert is our worst kick.

 

[GremioPower]

the rebound nature of the tigers and eagles of HB is amazing. Port may need to look at these sides strategies, especially the eagles who like Port have a weak midfield. They make up for this by absorbing pressure and attacking fast on the rebound with pin point accurate passing, speed and spread from HB.

Isn't this precisely what we want to do?

 

[Interstater]

Do we really have a weak midfield? And what does weak mean?

Lack of center clearances, lack of inside 50's from center clearances, kicking efficiency from center clearances?
What percentage of what midfielders do is the center clearance work and what percentage is stoppages and what percentage is simply team defense support?

Perhaps our midfield appears to perform poorly because they bomb so much to outnumbered forwards?

I still think our problem is our forward line.

 

[Janus]

West Coast’s ascendency is directly related to the following:

Playing Sydney at home at a new stadium no other team has played at before
Playing Western Bulldogs - who are shit - away
Playing a Geelong side that were down to one fit player on the bench at home
Playing Carlton - who are shit - away
Playing Fremantle - who are shit - at home
Playing a Port Adelaide side that were scheduled to play North Melbourne at Etihad the week before and a Showdown the week after at home with Rockliff and Powell-Pepper missing and Ryder coming back from weeks out
Playing an severely depleted GWS missing Kelly, Scully, Greene and Deledio away

Not one side has been able to put them under sustained pressure for this reason, because every side they’ve played has had issues with their midfield or their rotations.

They will fall in a heap soon enough.

 

[GremioPower]

West Coast’s ascendency is directly related to the following:

Playing Sydney at home at a new stadium no other team has played at before
Playing Western Bulldogs - who are shit - away
Playing a Geelong side that were down to one fit player on the bench at home
Playing Carlton - who are shit - away
Playing Fremantle - who are shit - at home
Playing a Port Adelaide side that were scheduled to play North Melbourne at Etihad the week before and a Showdown the week after at home with Rockliff and Powell-Pepper missing and Ryder coming back from weeks out
Playing an severely depleted GWS missing Kelly, Scully, Greene and Deledio away

Not one side has been able to put them under sustained pressure for this reason, because every side they’ve played has had issues with their midfield or their rotations.

They will fall in a heap soon enough.

What's the expression for the runner who starts the race in a fast pace, but gets tired midway, and falls behind as it goes on? "Bunny?" "Rabbit?"

 

[Power Raid]

Do we really have a weak midfield? And what does weak mean?

Lack of center clearances, lack of inside 50's from center clearances, kicking efficiency from center clearances?
What percentage of what midfielders do is the center clearance work and what percentage is stoppages and what percentage is simply team defense support?

Perhaps our midfield appears to perform poorly because they bomb so much to outnumbered forwards?

I still think our problem is our forward line.

Our midfield is lazy which makes them weak in my opinion.

By lazy we don’t run and spread to create options. We also don’t chase back hard enough rather we have too many jogging back 15m behind their man.

Compound that with the lack of speed (Boak, Ebert, wines, westhoff), the lack of endurance (wines, SPP), woeful decision making and or poor disposal (Boak, wines, SPP, Ebert). With supporting acts of lower end players (Amon, Neade, Barry, SPray).

Rockcliff has had one great game and Polec can run hot or cold.

 

[Pablo Escobar]

Just thought I would give this thread yet another bump. Despite years of obvious failings the inclusion of players with good foot skills this year hasn’t made much difference. Until we can get serious about recruiting kids with low, accurate and penetrating kicks, this team is going to demoralise itself to death. So much hard work to see forward entries burnt time and time again must sap confidence. I really have to question how much hard work and biometric analysis is done with our midfielders. To me it appears their techniques have not improved at all.

Players like Boak, Wines, Gray get under the ball too much and kick it too high. Are these guys too proud to take instruction or perhaps you just cant teach old dogs new tricks.

I have watched the last couple of SANFL games and our opponents have delivered some fantastic kicks into their forward line, something I rarely see in our teams. Even some of our recent recruits like Atley seems to have ordinary kicking skills - I can’t understand how our recruiters can get it so wrong.