Captaincy / Leadership group

[martinson]

I appreciate Zorko’s skill and always have. He has done some wonderful things for the club. But I do not agree with his moral standing. From what I have read during Zorko’s time at the club, the large majority of supporters have appreciated him. Strange take imo.


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I'm only going off the same ones on here who purport to know a lot about footy and have been getting stuck into him ever since I've been on here

 

[briztoon]

I hadn’t heard it up to this week, Cameron Ling and few others saying we like niggle but don’t play tough footy.

I have definitely thought this for a while.

Trying to think of the main players; it’s mostly Zorko and Andrews.

Can’t think of any of our other players who will start the niggle.

 

[briztoon]

Fyfe is/was oodles better than Zorko so that's a strange 2 to name.
Off topic but one thing I did hear about Pav (not sure how true) is that he was recruited as an inside mid but the dockers needs at the time meant he got thrown around the ground a lot, particularly as a KPP. He did get thrown into the middle every now and then but I wonder what kind of career he would have had if he was in a team whose personal had allowed him to play most of his career as a mid. Pav was a really underappreciated player because not only did he play in WA but he played for the Dockers. He probably perfectly fits our needs right now tbh.

When Neale first came over from Fremantle, there was a lot of speculation that Neale wasn’t that enamoured with Fyfe, and the main reason for moving was to get away from Fyfe.

Last year there was a fair bit of talk here about future captains at the club. A lot of people mentioned Berry, and Mighty Lions insinuated that Berry wasn’t the most liked person amongst the playing group, and unlikely ever to be considered for the captaincy.

 

[martinson]

When Neale first came over from Fremantle, there was a lot of speculation that Neale wasn’t that enamoured with Fyfe, and the main reason for moving was to get away from Fyfe.

Last year there was a fair bit of talk here about future captains at the club. A lot of people mentioned Berry, and Mighty Lions insinuated that Berry wasn’t the most liked person amongst the playing group, and unlikely ever to be considered for the captaincy.

I think that's true.

Despite all the talk on here about how Zorko is unpopular anything I've heard is that he's well liked by the playing group.

There's a lot of talk goes around in footy circles. And in the press. A lot of it is just invented to justify a narrative.

 

[p4p1]

When Neale first came over from Fremantle, there was a lot of speculation that Neale wasn’t that enamoured with Fyfe, and the main reason for moving was to get away from Fyfe.

I was never sure how true that was tbh. The media over here likes to crucify the Dockers sometimes, especially Fyfe for whatever reason. Didn't he invite Fyfe to his wedding? It could be down to something as simple as he felt he was never going to get out of Fyfe's shadow and for his own footy he needed to be the #1 mid, which has worked out well for him IMO. Lachie was good enough to be an AA before he came to us but was often overlooked due to being in the same team and being all the way in WA IMO.

 

[Section 5]

We have a knockout final coming up soon and the Zorko issue is not helping everyone focus on that
Fagan and co have basically said they endorse his leadership skills over the years. So doubt anything happens from their side of things
So it is up to Zorko

If Zorko was a true leader he would resign his captancy for the remainder of 2022. Irrespective of weather he thinks it is,or is not, a resignation issue.
True leaders will do what is best for the Club

He could say something along the lines of " I came to this decision to clear the air for players and the Club as finals are upon us. Everyone needs to focus on the elemination final and my actions have been a big distraction. I have apologised for my actions and now wish to solely concentrate on playing out season 2022. The Club has now appointed ??????? to the captancy role and i fully accept and endores this appointment"

 

[The Flying Belgian]

We have a knockout final coming up soon and the Zorko issue is not helping everyone focus on that
Fagan and co have basically said they endorse his leadership skills over the years. So doubt anything happens from their side of things
So it is up to Zorko

If Zorko was a true leader he would resign his captancy for the remainder of 2022. Irrespective of weather he thinks it is,or is not, a resignation issue.
True leaders will do what is best for the Club

He could say something along the lines of " I came to this decision to clear the air for players and the Club as finals are upon us. Everyone needs to focus on the elemination final and my actions have been a big distraction. I have apologised for my actions and now wish to solely concentrate on playing out season 2022. The Club has now appointed ??????? to the captancy role and i fully accept and endores this appointment"

I think any distraction is way reduced in-house. I think they will have moved on to trying to win a game of football in 9 days time. And I'd probably argue against whether it's the best for the club anyway.

But regardless of whether it's warranted or not, Zorko stepping down will not happen before the end of the season. Just not going to happen.

 

[Lets Roar like '44]

We have a knockout final coming up soon and the Zorko issue is not helping everyone focus on that
Fagan and co have basically said they endorse his leadership skills over the years. So doubt anything happens from their side of things
So it is up to Zorko

If Zorko was a true leader he would resign his captancy for the remainder of 2022. Irrespective of weather he thinks it is,or is not, a resignation issue.
True leaders will do what is best for the Club

He could say something along the lines of " I came to this decision to clear the air for players and the Club as finals are upon us. Everyone needs to focus on the elemination final and my actions have been a big distraction. I have apologised for my actions and now wish to solely concentrate on playing out season 2022. The Club has now appointed ??????? to the captancy role and i fully accept and endores this appointment"

What a load of shit. Plenty of worse sledges going around but because Petty becomes the first sports person in history to ball because of it, Zorko now is made out to be some sort of monster. The whole story is a load of crap. And credit to the two teams for dealing with it properly, even if BF know it all’s know better.

 

[Lazza16]

Thinking ahead to when magically, we actually win the GF 2022..........will Zorks n Fages be up there raising the cup to a full MCG with 70% of the crowd booing Zorks? I kind of like the idea.....us against the rest of world. On the flip side....will the Lions have thought of this n stand down Zorks from the Captaincy this week to relieve the pressure on Zorks (wrap their arms around him)?

 

[davemc_lions]

i do not think the Zorko stuff inside the club be much.
He seems well liked and the times I talked to him a nice guy.
Just think he has some white line fever stuff.
You want your captain leading by example pulling the rest of the group with him.
When he gives away a stupid free or 50m.. Sends the wrong message.
Andrews, Joe and Charlie I add to that list they often look not great.

Neale on the other hand always looks focused and doing the best he can.
I still think Oscar be a great captain if Neale does not want it.
Although that is all for next year.. Club would of had to act by now if they where going too.

 

[Section 5]

What a load of s**t. Plenty of worse sledges going around but because Petty becomes the first sports person in history to ball because of it, Zorko now is made out to be some sort of monster. The whole story is a load of crap. And credit to the two teams for dealing with it properly, even if BF know it all’s know better.

It could not be to much of "a load of s**t" or we would not be up to page 8 on this thread or 17 pages on the maid board (which i have not read)
And that is just BF. Lots of media involved. A long time to Thursday week. Nothing positive will come up in that time
The longer Zorko leaves it the worse it will become for the Club

It is the media attention that is the distraction
The Pies went through lots of distraction issues 2 years ago
Then they finished 2nd last the following year.

He should resign for the Clubs benefit. It would then be over in a day or two
Does not matter what he said or did not say now
Does not matter if as you say "Plenty of worse sledged going around".

 

[Saucery]

It could not be to much of "a load of s**t" or we would not be up to page 8 on this thread or 17 pages on the maid board (which i have not read)
And that is just BF. Lots of media involved. A long time to Thursday week. Nothing positive will come up in that time
The longer Zorko leaves it the worse it will become for the Club

It is the media attention that is the distraction
The Pies went through lots of distraction issues 2 years ago
Then they finished 2nd last the following year.

He should resign for the Clubs benefit. It would then be over in a day or two
Does not matter what he said or did not say now
Does not matter if as you say "Plenty of worse sledged going around".

A senior monk and a junior monk were traveling together. At one point, they came to a river with a strong current. As the monks were preparing to cross the river, they saw a very young and beautiful woman also attempting to cross. The young woman asked if they could help her cross to the other side.

The two monks glanced at one another because they had taken vows not to touch a woman.

Then, without a word, the older monk picked up the woman, carried her across the river, placed her gently on the other side, and carried on his journey.

The younger monk couldn’t believe what had just happened. After rejoining his companion, he was speechless, and an hour passed without a word between them.

Two more hours passed, then three, finally the younger monk could contain himself no longer, and blurted out “As monks, we are not permitted a woman, how could you then carry that woman on your shoulders?”

The older monk looked at him and replied, “Brother, I set her down on the other side of the river, why are you still carrying her?”

 

[martinson]

It could not be to much of "a load of s**t" or we would not be up to page 8 on this thread or 17 pages on the maid board (which i have not read)
And that is just BF. Lots of media involved. A long time to Thursday week. Nothing positive will come up in that time
The longer Zorko leaves it the worse it will become for the Club

It is the media attention that is the distraction
The Pies went through lots of distraction issues 2 years ago
Then they finished 2nd last the following year.

He should resign for the Clubs benefit. It would then be over in a day or two
Does not matter what he said or did not say now
Does not matter if as you say "Plenty of worse sledged going around".

Section 5 if Zorko resigning would help us in the final I'm all for it. And so would he be.

The players know what is said on the ground and what has happened. Anecdotally there's no issues from them. But if there were he'd be resigning.

If Zorko resigns whether we win or lose will be because he did if we win and because of the disruption if we didn't.

If he doesn't resign and we lose it'll be because of him and if we win despite him.

I'm sure the club is proactive in what it needs to do and likewise they and the players will have the full story.

 

[luthor]

The one thing I don’t subscribe to is a lack of overall toughness in a football sense, as said by Ling. Zorkos niggle is annoying but we are generally said to be a tough, contested team.

How often do you here the boundary rider say ‘it’s tough and hard down here, both sides going at it’.

Or hear an oppo coach say, ‘you know what you get againts brisbane, it’s going to be a a contested, bruising affair - we were ready’.

We alway commit to the contest it’s just our structural/team D that’s the issue.

We got the niggle vs contest wrong on Friday and took the bait, but generally we are not a bruise free/soft side.

That’s the one element I have found to be OTT and annoying.

Nice post

It's not the effort. It's not lack of care.

As you say, we got sucked into expending energy in the silly niggley stuff and as a result, lost our composure and concentration

Our structure totally fell apart in the second quarter and once they smashed us on the scoreboard with 7 in a row, there was no coming back.

The passion is clearly there but we need to keep our heads.

We can take Richmond if we can just keep our composure over the four quarters.

We had them on toast at the G a few weeks ago but a combination of some poor errors, in- game injuries, some umpiring pile - ons in the last quarter and some plain bad luck saw us get rolled at the death.

The coaches should be doing positive reinforcement with out players and playing the underdog tag to boot

 

[lioninthesand]

Nice post

It's not the effort. It's not lack of care.

As you say, we got sucked into expending energy in the silly niggley stuff and as a result, lost our composure and concentration

Our structure totally fell apart in the second quarter and once they smashed us on the scoreboard with 7 in a row, there was no coming back.

The passion is clearly there but we need to keep our heads.

We an take Richmond if we can just keep our composure over the four quarters.

I watched the replay tonight (not sure why) and so much of what you say rings true.

Came out with intent but got punched in the mouth.

Couldn’t get our game going.

Fire in the belly and good intent turned to frustration, we got involved in the niggle and off the ball stuff.

Energy went there and not on the game, structure fell away and that was it.

Completely agree that we need to just focus on the game againts the tigers, they have a bit of a mental edge on us they will be looking to exploit.

Jack said for him the Zorko/Petty incident will be off limits out of respect for Harrison’s mum (don’t want it to be the story of the night again) but can’t help but think they go after us with the mind games big time.

Big chance to right some wrongs.

 

[luthor]

I watched the replay tonight (not sure why) and so much of what you say rings true.

Came out with intent but got punched in the mouth.

Couldn’t get our game going.

Fire in the belly and good intent turned to frustration, we got involved in the niggle and off the ball stuff.

Energy went there and not on the game, structure fell away and that was it.

Completely agree that we need to just focus on the game againts the tigers, they have a bit of a mental edge on us they will be looking to exploit.

Jack said for him the Zorko/Petty incident will be off limits out of respect for Harrison’s mum (don’t want it to be the story of the night again) but can’t help but think they go after us with the mind games big time.

Big chance to right some wrongs.

It's really incumbent on Zorko to show some true leadership and refuse to be drawn into any stupid tit for tat sledging or any other reactionary behavior in this Final

He's still a great player and we need him to be the best version of himself for the full 80 minutes of playing time.

You're the Captain Dane!

Act like one!

 

[lioninthesand]

It's really incumbent on Zorko to show some true leadership and refuse to be drawn into any stupid tit for tat sledging or any other reactionary behavior in this Final

He's still a great player and we need him to be the best version of himself for the full 80 minutes of playing time.

You're the Captain Dane!

Act like one!

Him coming out stone faced and tearing the game apart would be the ultimate team lifter and tonic.

 

[luthor]

Him coming out stone faced and tearing the game apart would be the ultimate team lifter and tonic.

It's almost a given that given the commentary surrounding the Petty sledge, that the umpires are going to be riding him , give him nothing in the way of frees and be looking to pull frees against and 50's for any sign of dissent or churlishness from Zorko.

He needs to be more disciplined and in control of his emotions in this game than any other time in his career.

 

[Sherrinator]

This leadership group thing needs to stop. Creates a huge list of undroppables.

 

[3KZ is Football]

They probably could have added a few more minutes of unsavoury habits and 50's that werent included either.

Every impartial observer here can see exactly what some of us have been hoping were aberrations for the last couple of years, but have become impossible to ignore this year. “Banking” soft wins, choking in big games, defence a “soft underbelly”, mulligans, rinse and repeat team selection, ignoring great form in the reserves and a lack of tactical expertise among coaches. Papering over cracks and an excess of hubris. It’s now or never for Fagan. Leadership starts with him, runs through Zorko and into the senior players. Zorko has done his dash as Captain and it is a failure of man management that he has not been pulled up long before now. I don’t think Fagan has what it takes, but I would love him to stand up and prove me wrong.

 

[The Flying Belgian]

This leadership group thing needs to stop. Creates a huge list of undroppables.

You know Lester has barely played all year right?

I've said before, player don't get dropped because their form dips. They get dropped because their output in relation to team structure is perceived as less than those not playing senior footy. The whole concept of dropping someone as a punitive measure to "give them a kick in the backside" is ouddated footy thinking.

 

[davemc_lions]

You know Lester has barely played all year right?

I've said before, player don't get dropped because their form dips. They get dropped because their output in relation to team structure is perceived as less than those not playing senior footy. The whole concept of dropping someone as a punitive measure to "give them a kick in the backside" is ouddated footy thinking.

I do not think it is just a kick up the bum.
The players themselves will be feeling down not contributing as much as they should.
VFL they can get the ball more and get some confidence up.
Robbo disposal avg is 12 in 2022 and top of 21 he got 41 in the magoos. Give him some confidence.
I know the talk Rayner and Hipwood too good for VFL.. Although first few weeks back they where not great.

 

[M Malice]

I watched the replay tonight (not sure why) and so much of what you say rings true.

Came out with intent but got punched in the mouth.

Couldn’t get our game going.

Fire in the belly and good intent turned to frustration, we got involved in the niggle and off the ball stuff.

Energy went there and not on the game, structure fell away and that was it.

Completely agree that we need to just focus on the game againts the tigers, they have a bit of a mental edge on us they will be looking to exploit.

Jack said for him the Zorko/Petty incident will be off limits out of respect for Harrison’s mum (don’t want it to be the story of the night again) but can’t help but think they go after us with the mind games big time.

Big chance to right some wrongs.

 

[Daniels Riches]

What a load of s**t. Plenty of worse sledges going around but because Petty becomes the first sports person in history to ball because of it, Zorko now is made out to be some sort of monster. The whole story is a load of crap. And credit to the two teams for dealing with it properly, even if BF know it all’s know better.

Can you give us some examples of some of the worse sledges that you are referring to? Can’t say I’ve heard much worse myself.


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[M Malice]

Can you give us some examples of some of the worse sledges that you are referring to? Can’t say I’ve heard much worse myself.


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It was abhorrent what Zorko said but IMO racial vilification is worse.