Captaincy / Leadership group

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i do not think the Zorko stuff inside the club be much.
He seems well liked and the times I talked to him a nice guy.
Just think he has some white line fever stuff.
You want your captain leading by example pulling the rest of the group with him.
When he gives away a stupid free or 50m.. Sends the wrong message.
Andrews, Joe and Charlie I add to that list they often look not great.

Neale on the other hand always looks focused and doing the best he can.
I still think Oscar be a great captain if Neale does not want it.
Although that is all for next year.. Club would of had to act by now if they where going too.
 
Lets Roar like '44 said:
What a load of s**t. Plenty of worse sledges going around but because Petty becomes the first sports person in history to ball because of it, Zorko now is made out to be some sort of monster. The whole story is a load of crap. And credit to the two teams for dealing with it properly, even if BF know it all’s know better.
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It could not be to much of "a load of s**t" or we would not be up to page 8 on this thread or 17 pages on the maid board (which i have not read)
And that is just BF. Lots of media involved. A long time to Thursday week. Nothing positive will come up in that time
The longer Zorko leaves it the worse it will become for the Club

It is the media attention that is the distraction
The Pies went through lots of distraction issues 2 years ago
Then they finished 2nd last the following year.

He should resign for the Clubs benefit. It would then be over in a day or two
Does not matter what he said or did not say now
Does not matter if as you say "Plenty of worse sledged going around".
 
Section 5 said:
It could not be to much of "a load of s**t" or we would not be up to page 8 on this thread or 17 pages on the maid board (which i have not read)
And that is just BF. Lots of media involved. A long time to Thursday week. Nothing positive will come up in that time
The longer Zorko leaves it the worse it will become for the Club

It is the media attention that is the distraction
The Pies went through lots of distraction issues 2 years ago
Then they finished 2nd last the following year.

He should resign for the Clubs benefit. It would then be over in a day or two
Does not matter what he said or did not say now
Does not matter if as you say "Plenty of worse sledged going around".
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A senior monk and a junior monk were traveling together. At one point, they came to a river with a strong current. As the monks were preparing to cross the river, they saw a very young and beautiful woman also attempting to cross. The young woman asked if they could help her cross to the other side.

The two monks glanced at one another because they had taken vows not to touch a woman.

Then, without a word, the older monk picked up the woman, carried her across the river, placed her gently on the other side, and carried on his journey.

The younger monk couldn’t believe what had just happened. After rejoining his companion, he was speechless, and an hour passed without a word between them.

Two more hours passed, then three, finally the younger monk could contain himself no longer, and blurted out “As monks, we are not permitted a woman, how could you then carry that woman on your shoulders?”

The older monk looked at him and replied, “Brother, I set her down on the other side of the river, why are you still carrying her?”
 

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Section 5 said:
It could not be to much of "a load of s**t" or we would not be up to page 8 on this thread or 17 pages on the maid board (which i have not read)
And that is just BF. Lots of media involved. A long time to Thursday week. Nothing positive will come up in that time
The longer Zorko leaves it the worse it will become for the Club

It is the media attention that is the distraction
The Pies went through lots of distraction issues 2 years ago
Then they finished 2nd last the following year.

He should resign for the Clubs benefit. It would then be over in a day or two
Does not matter what he said or did not say now
Does not matter if as you say "Plenty of worse sledged going around".
Click to expand...
Section 5 if Zorko resigning would help us in the final I'm all for it. And so would he be.

The players know what is said on the ground and what has happened. Anecdotally there's no issues from them. But if there were he'd be resigning.

If Zorko resigns whether we win or lose will be because he did if we win and because of the disruption if we didn't.

If he doesn't resign and we lose it'll be because of him and if we win despite him.

I'm sure the club is proactive in what it needs to do and likewise they and the players will have the full story.
 
lioninthesand said:
The one thing I don’t subscribe to is a lack of overall toughness in a football sense, as said by Ling. Zorkos niggle is annoying but we are generally said to be a tough, contested team.

How often do you here the boundary rider say ‘it’s tough and hard down here, both sides going at it’.

Or hear an oppo coach say, ‘you know what you get againts brisbane, it’s going to be a a contested, bruising affair - we were ready’.

We alway commit to the contest it’s just our structural/team D that’s the issue.

We got the niggle vs contest wrong on Friday and took the bait, but generally we are not a bruise free/soft side.

That’s the one element I have found to be OTT and annoying.
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Nice post

It's not the effort. It's not lack of care.

As you say, we got sucked into expending energy in the silly niggley stuff and as a result, lost our composure and concentration

Our structure totally fell apart in the second quarter and once they smashed us on the scoreboard with 7 in a row, there was no coming back.

The passion is clearly there but we need to keep our heads.

We can take Richmond if we can just keep our composure over the four quarters.

We had them on toast at the G a few weeks ago but a combination of some poor errors, in- game injuries, some umpiring pile - ons in the last quarter and some plain bad luck saw us get rolled at the death.

The coaches should be doing positive reinforcement with out players and playing the underdog tag to boot
 
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luthor said:
Nice post

It's not the effort. It's not lack of care.

As you say, we got sucked into expending energy in the silly niggley stuff and as a result, lost our composure and concentration

Our structure totally fell apart in the second quarter and once they smashed us on the scoreboard with 7 in a row, there was no coming back.

The passion is clearly there but we need to keep our heads.

We an take Richmond if we can just keep our composure over the four quarters.
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I watched the replay tonight (not sure why) and so much of what you say rings true.

Came out with intent but got punched in the mouth.

Couldn’t get our game going.

Fire in the belly and good intent turned to frustration, we got involved in the niggle and off the ball stuff.

Energy went there and not on the game, structure fell away and that was it.

Completely agree that we need to just focus on the game againts the tigers, they have a bit of a mental edge on us they will be looking to exploit.

Jack said for him the Zorko/Petty incident will be off limits out of respect for Harrison’s mum (don’t want it to be the story of the night again) but can’t help but think they go after us with the mind games big time.

Big chance to right some wrongs.
 
lioninthesand said:
I watched the replay tonight (not sure why) and so much of what you say rings true.

Came out with intent but got punched in the mouth.

Couldn’t get our game going.

Fire in the belly and good intent turned to frustration, we got involved in the niggle and off the ball stuff.

Energy went there and not on the game, structure fell away and that was it.

Completely agree that we need to just focus on the game againts the tigers, they have a bit of a mental edge on us they will be looking to exploit.

Jack said for him the Zorko/Petty incident will be off limits out of respect for Harrison’s mum (don’t want it to be the story of the night again) but can’t help but think they go after us with the mind games big time.

Big chance to right some wrongs.
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It's really incumbent on Zorko to show some true leadership and refuse to be drawn into any stupid tit for tat sledging or any other reactionary behavior in this Final

He's still a great player and we need him to be the best version of himself for the full 80 minutes of playing time.

You're the Captain Dane!

Act like one!
 
luthor said:
It's really incumbent on Zorko to show some true leadership and refuse to be drawn into any stupid tit for tat sledging or any other reactionary behavior in this Final

He's still a great player and we need him to be the best version of himself for the full 80 minutes of playing time.

You're the Captain Dane!

Act like one!
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Him coming out stone faced and tearing the game apart would be the ultimate team lifter and tonic.
 
lioninthesand said:
Him coming out stone faced and tearing the game apart would be the ultimate team lifter and tonic.
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It's almost a given that given the commentary surrounding the Petty sledge, that the umpires are going to be riding him , give him nothing in the way of frees and be looking to pull frees against and 50's for any sign of dissent or churlishness from Zorko.

He needs to be more disciplined and in control of his emotions in this game than any other time in his career.
 
McIvor said:


They probably could have added a few more minutes of unsavoury habits and 50's that werent included either.
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Every impartial observer here can see exactly what some of us have been hoping were aberrations for the last couple of years, but have become impossible to ignore this year. “Banking” soft wins, choking in big games, defence a “soft underbelly”, mulligans, rinse and repeat team selection, ignoring great form in the reserves and a lack of tactical expertise among coaches. Papering over cracks and an excess of hubris. It’s now or never for Fagan. Leadership starts with him, runs through Zorko and into the senior players. Zorko has done his dash as Captain and it is a failure of man management that he has not been pulled up long before now. I don’t think Fagan has what it takes, but I would love him to stand up and prove me wrong.
 
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Sherrinator said:
This leadership group thing needs to stop. Creates a huge list of undroppables.
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You know Lester has barely played all year right?

I've said before, player don't get dropped because their form dips. They get dropped because their output in relation to team structure is perceived as less than those not playing senior footy. The whole concept of dropping someone as a punitive measure to "give them a kick in the backside" is ouddated footy thinking.
 
The Flying Belgian said:
You know Lester has barely played all year right?

I've said before, player don't get dropped because their form dips. They get dropped because their output in relation to team structure is perceived as less than those not playing senior footy. The whole concept of dropping someone as a punitive measure to "give them a kick in the backside" is ouddated footy thinking.
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I do not think it is just a kick up the bum.
The players themselves will be feeling down not contributing as much as they should.
VFL they can get the ball more and get some confidence up.
Robbo disposal avg is 12 in 2022 and top of 21 he got 41 in the magoos. Give him some confidence.
I know the talk Rayner and Hipwood too good for VFL.. Although first few weeks back they where not great.
 

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lioninthesand said:
I watched the replay tonight (not sure why) and so much of what you say rings true.

Came out with intent but got punched in the mouth.

Couldn’t get our game going.

Fire in the belly and good intent turned to frustration, we got involved in the niggle and off the ball stuff.

Energy went there and not on the game, structure fell away and that was it.

Completely agree that we need to just focus on the game againts the tigers, they have a bit of a mental edge on us they will be looking to exploit.

Jack said for him the Zorko/Petty incident will be off limits out of respect for Harrison’s mum (don’t want it to be the story of the night again) but can’t help but think they go after us with the mind games big time.

Big chance to right some wrongs.
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Lets Roar like '44 said:
What a load of s**t. Plenty of worse sledges going around but because Petty becomes the first sports person in history to ball because of it, Zorko now is made out to be some sort of monster. The whole story is a load of crap. And credit to the two teams for dealing with it properly, even if BF know it all’s know better.
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Can you give us some examples of some of the worse sledges that you are referring to? Can’t say I’ve heard much worse myself.


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Once upon a time it would have been Petty who was vilified and thought less of because in a game where physical and psychological bullying is actually part of team tactics and ethos (remember how our threepeat team bullying Geelong inspired them to one day be holding the whip hand themselves) he didn't fight back, he didn't fight through, he didn't run through his tormentor (legally) or get into him in an instant brawl instead he cried.

If Zorko crossed the line (remembering we don't know the lead up and it might have been completely allied with their banter at that point until it was suddenly real (eg the old 'how is your wife and my kids' line would possibly have a greater effect on a man who found out the night before that his wife had been cheating on him with another, not yet identified, player)) there are ways to deal with it on the field and both sides know it.

Zorko has always been Zorko and has even matured somewhat over the years but even with his Zorko-ness he has had the support of his team mates and the coaching staff. Public perceptions can be fickle (we considered Hodge to be a sniping grub and the farthest thing from a 'good bloke' until he became a Lion where his in now not only confirmed in his good-bloke-ness but would be welcomed back as a to-be-inspired-by coach/mentor.)

What is happening now is not fair to Petty (who wants to forget it ever happened) and Zorko (who would likely feel the same) and being outraged and offended on behalf of the anything-but-helpless does nothing by deny them the agency to control their own destinies.

Whatever Zorko said did not cross any of the currently inked in lines so he is being crucified not because of what he said but because of someone else's perceived response/reaction to what they believe him to have said.

All that being said I would rather us do out bullying and intimidation through our pressure and skill and them being unable to shake the sure and certain knowledge every time they have he ball that doom is moments from descending on them.
 
Article today about Australia's ruthless 2019 Ashes sledges
Pretty tame stuff compared to our captains

Sledge: “He won’t talk now. He doesn’t have his big boys around. How many runs until he starts talking? 20-30?”
Sledge: “Another bloke who likes a word when all his mates are around. Standing by himself down here? Very little.”
Sledge: “I tell you what he does. He looks straight at the screen to see if he’s on the screen.”
Sledge: “No worries Stokesy, I reckon you and me make a good combination, bro.”
Sledge:“Oh, he’s got too much on his mind”.

 
Section 5 said:
Article today about Australia's ruthless 2019 Ashes sledges
Pretty tame stuff compared to our captains

Sledge: “He won’t talk now. He doesn’t have his big boys around. How many runs until he starts talking? 20-30?”
Sledge: “Another bloke who likes a word when all his mates are around. Standing by himself down here? Very little.”
Sledge: “I tell you what he does. He looks straight at the screen to see if he’s on the screen.”
Sledge: “No worries Stokesy, I reckon you and me make a good combination, bro.”
Sledge:“Oh, he’s got too much on his mind”.

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a) stump mikes, that they all know about.
b) there was a backlash against the worst of it in the 2010s so that they've dialled it back substantially.
 
M Malice said:
It was abhorrent what Zorko said but IMO racial vilification is worse.
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Yeah good point and very much opinion based. I suppose different kinds of insults hurt different people in different ways.
I can’t comment on the racial abuse because fortunately I have never had to deal with it on a personal level before. But losing my mother in law to cancer last year, made Zorko’s comments really hit home for our family.


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Section 5 said:
Article today about Australia's ruthless 2019 Ashes sledges
Pretty tame stuff compared to our captains

Sledge: “He won’t talk now. He doesn’t have his big boys around. How many runs until he starts talking? 20-30?”
Sledge: “Another bloke who likes a word when all his mates are around. Standing by himself down here? Very little.”
Sledge: “I tell you what he does. He looks straight at the screen to see if he’s on the screen.”
Sledge: “No worries Stokesy, I reckon you and me make a good combination, bro.”
Sledge:“Oh, he’s got too much on his mind”.

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Agree that is very mild stuff, harmless banter IMO, I heard plenty similar and worse than that on cricket fields around the place..... have umpired and coached at junior level.
 
Daniels Riches said:
Yeah good point and very much opinion based. I suppose different kinds of insults hurt different people in different ways.
I can’t comment on the racial abuse because fortunately I have never had to deal with it on a personal level before. But losing my mother in law to cancer last year, made Zorko’s comments really hit home for our family.


On iPhone using BigFooty.com mobile app
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Yep, everybody reacts differently, I lost my father to cancer and have had cancer myself and it didn't even cross my mind re the bolded context personally.
 
Nuggo said:
You would have to think that this is a watershed moment for on field sledging. Players will now know what they say will be published.
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Media dug because of the highly unusual reaction of crying publicly on a football field in the heat of battle.Would normally be treated with a push and shove or a wrestle and no one would know the wiser
 
Lace Out said:
Media dug because of the highly unusual reaction of crying publicly on a football field in the heat of battle.Would normally be treated with a push and shove or a wrestle and no one would know the wiser
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I've said enough on this but when Murphy started getting viciously sledged about Carey supposedly doing all sorts of unrepeatable things with his wife it went around clubs. Everyone ,the media ,the AFL knew about it but Marc suffered immeasurably with dignity and no one stepped in. He kept copping it for a year or two and ultimately sparked an all in brawl against St.Kilda.

Perhaps if he had broken down in the 3/4 time break things might have been different.
 

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Captaincy / Leadership group

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