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Captaincy / Leadership group

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Good.

Piss of with your sanctimonious crap

Go back to your own Board and give Stephen May some advice on how to treat his "lesser" team-mates, especially when he is pissed.

He did acknowledge it was poor and apologise, not sure this response after that self correction, is necessarily ideal.
 
All of us player sponsors got our signed guernseys or photo last week which sadly means there's no meet up in person which is a bloody shame that's two years in a row.

I sponsored Jezza this year and you'll find this guernsey framed and hung up in OLLIE'S CAFE BULIMBA with our Tezza, Bails and Starce ones from the last 3 years in a week or two - Lethal pops in from time to time and Fages and his wife often have their morning coffee there.
 
I had no sympathy for Zorks when this first came to light but the continued media and public pile on does have me worried about his emotional state. He would be ashamed and devastated by what he said... he is OOC still, he is definitely well past his best, turns 34 before the start of next season and persistently gets niggling injuries, he may think it is just all too much stress for him, any chance he decides to retire?
 
This is the crux of it.

Among all the outrage and hype this morning on SEN (and no doubt on other media platforms) it took Nathan Buckley to voice the most salient point here.

That is that

1) why did the specifics of what Zorko said have to get aired at all? He said he (Buckley) didn't need to know and didn't know why anyone else needed to know.

and

2) the longer this gets played out the more hurtful it becomes for the injured party, Harrison Petty, who as he pointed out, had accepted the apology and just wanted to move on. So why can't the offended and outraged respect the wishes of the victim?

Potting Bucks for his perceived "treachery" in leaving the Bears 28 years ago has been a recurrent theme on this board but I for one, enjoy his insights and commentary on issues such as this.

It's disrespectful to Petty himself to keep dragging the issue through the public court of outrage

Zorko made an abhorrent remark and I am disgusted by it as anyone.

But can we please express our disgust/anger/displeasure with the deed rather than crucifying Zorko himself.

Somewhere on this Forum someone came up with the theory that Dane Zorko was suffering from "Small man syndrome"

Just have a think about that comment. It's the very essence of vilification. Instead of addressing the issue of the poor behavior, the focus became the physical stature of Dane Zorko, as if that was the reason for the behavior itself. Ridiculous!

Short people everywhere are now being labelled as more likely to be suffering from some kind of "syndrome"

If Dane was tall and Indigenous, would anyone be so bold as to attribute his comments as ""tall black guy syndrome"?

I'm 67 years old and I've said and done many things that I've not only regretted but been downright ashamed of. It's part of being human. We all make gross and grievous errors and misjudgments so before getting on our moral high horses, put yourself in another persons shoes and try to understand how in the heat of the moment we are all susceptible to foot in mouth disease.

Lest my comments be misinterpreted, let me say I think it's time we moved on from Dane's captaincy .He is ill disciplined and prone to brain explosions but that is entirely a different issue.

The real challenge is to find a suitable club captain who will lead by example in word and in deed.
Well said Luthor!
 

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What annoys me about Zorko is the fact he doesn't believe any of the crap he carries on with. He belts blokes, headlocks them, wrestles, sledges and carries on all with a stupid smile on his face, cracking jokes and so on. I'm sure he would be more well liked and respected if he showed genuine aggression and didn't back away from it with a stupid smile and a joke, pretending its the oppositions problem they cant handle it.
I think he should just be nicer. Like the rest of our team. Just nice. You can see how it's working.

As JB said last night we need a dose of nastiness. Like other teams. A few Martin Pikes wouldn't go astray.

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I think he should just be nicer. Like the rest of our team. Just nice. You can see how it's working.

As JB said last night we need a dose of nastiness. Like other teams. A few Martin Pikes wouldn't go astray.

Sent from my SM-N920I using Tapatalk
We need to be tough. Genuinely tough.

Tough at the ball. Going in for it an not being afraid to get hurt.

Tough at opposition players in laying tackles. Hurting them (legally) when we can. Making them worry about getting caught. Having the whole team with this attitude, including the forward line.

Tough when it comes to gut running until it hurts to stop the opposition getting players free.

Being mentally tough when the momentum is going against us. Actually relishing the opportunity to be the player that turns the tide with an act of toughness, instead of thinking oh no here we go again.

We don't need to be nasty. We don't need Zorko's faux toughness. We can have a player or two who's natural game is to get under the opposition's skin. But the playing group should be focussed on being genuinely tough.
 
Funnily enough I think Robbo is a much better example of toughness. He goes hard at the ball and player, but I dont think in a dirty way. He will just try to go hard within the rules. Personally think the vast majority of people respect players like that
 
I think he should just be nicer. Like the rest of our team. Just nice. You can see how it's working.

As JB said last night we need a dose of nastiness. Like other teams. A few Martin Pikes wouldn't go astray.

Sent from my SM-N920I using Tapatalk
We need to be tough, not necessarily nasty.

Tough as in: tough in the contest, physically tough to compete for all 4 quarters, mentally tough to stand up when things are not going your way, and toughness to beat your man and the opposition on the day.

Nastiness as in abusing your opponents, blaming other people when things arten't going well - no thanks.

Being nice and being competitive/resilient are not mutually exclusive. Carrying on like a brat does not mean you are tough.

Our team has the talent to compete, but currently lacks resilience and strong leadership on field, and that is why we fall.
 
The one thing I don’t subscribe to is a lack of overall toughness in a football sense, as said by Ling. Zorkos niggle is annoying but we are generally said to be a tough, contested team.

How often do you here the boundary rider say ‘it’s tough and hard down here, both sides going at it’.

Or hear an oppo coach say, ‘you know what you get againts brisbane, it’s going to be a a contested, bruising affair - we were ready’.

We alway commit to the contest it’s just our structural/team D that’s the issue.

We got the niggle vs contest wrong on Friday and took the bait, but generally we are not a bruise free/soft side.

That’s the one element I have found to be OTT and annoying.
 
The one thing I don’t subscribe to is a lack of overall toughness in a football sense, as said by Ling. Zorkos niggle is annoying but we are generally said to be a tough, contested team.

How often do you here the boundary rider say ‘it’s tough and hard down here, both sides going at it’.

Or hear an oppo coach say, ‘you know what you get againts brisbane, it’s going to be a a contested, bruising affair - we were ready’.

We alway commit to the contest it’s just our structural/team D that’s the issue.

We got the niggle vs contest wrong on Friday and took the bait, but generally we are not a bruise free/soft side.

That’s the one element I have found to be OTT and annoying.

I don't hear those comments very often with us at all

Sometimes we turn on a finals like intensity for a quarter here and there like the first quarter of the Richmond game but we don't sustain it for long enough
 

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I always sponsor one of the young blokes under 100 games. You get either a signed Guernsey or framed autographed picture. I get the Guernsey.

Haven't made a choice for next year but Kiddy or Rayner are my considerations presently
 
The one thing that's surprised me out of this saga is that people who are so interested in AFL that they post opinions and have conversations on a public forum are completely oblivious to the things players say to each other on the field.

Much of it's not nice. They're not playing tiddlywinks. What Zorko said isn't up there in some of the stuff players bandy around that the opposition say to put them off their game. Petty's reaction was the only reason this saw the light of day and I agree with everything Buckley said on SEN that someone posted earlier.

Melbourne don't want their dirty laundry aired either.

Zorko's a player that even his own supporters seem to dislike so there was bound to be a pile on.

I wouldn't at all be surprised if this is his last year now. But I hope not. Freed of any leadership roles if he could get his body right he could still be a valuable player.
 
I haven't gone through the thread yet.
Neale is the obvious choice, unless it is something that he has little interest in. Not everybody wants to be captain. His age doesn't matter to me. Even if he is only captain for 1-2 years he has first hand experience of what a great leader should do due to his time at Freo when Pav was the captain there.
Next in line for me is Starce, he never stops trying all game and leads by example. The captain doesn't have to be the loudest voice but he has to be respected, reliable and lead by example. If Starce does make the shift into a defensive mid next year then he is almost a lock for me as to who I would choose.
Left field choice for me would be Daniher. I know someone floated the idea of him being the forward general but I do wonder if a bit more responsibility would make Joe less prone to flopping etc. Sometime people thrive with added responsibility. I don't know that he would but a team first, pack crashing Daniher would change our forwardline.
I wouldn't make Matho captain but I think he could be deputy-vice. He is completely team first, he fires up the guys and from what I have seen has a lot of attributes you want in a leader. The only thing that holds him back is that he might not be first 22 at times. But 3rd in line would cement him as a leader for the group. Maybe we need to start rewarding guys who make the others around them better, which is something he seems to do.
Clugg is another good option, being that he is already in the leadership group he would have to be the second favourite for the captaincy after Neale. Much like Starc, he never stops trying, he never gives up and leads by example.

I think our leadership group needs to be shrunk down. Captain, Vice-Captain, Deputy-Vice and Reserves Captain.
Lester seems to fill the reserves captain role (from my understanding) last role really well but I also wouldn't be against giving the reserves captaincy to a young player who will definitely be first 22 soon but isn't quite there/a lock and see if it helps them develop traits. IE as much as I think Dev Robertson should be in our first 22, this year it might have been a good to make him the reserves captain, showing some faith in him as a player and a person but maybe with a chat that 'we don't think you are quite there yet but we know you will be and expect you to be there next year but for this year we want you to focus on the 2nds and being a leader so we want you our captain this year in the twos.' I just think if we want our young guys to be leaders going forward we need to start giving them some responsibility now.
 
I don't hear those comments very often with us at all

Sometimes we turn on a finals like intensity for a quarter here and there like the first quarter of the Richmond game but we don't sustain it for long enough
It's what we can do for 10 or 15 minutes that had people believing we were a flag contender.

Intensity though is sustaining it at a reasonable level for a whole game and lifting to another level when you're under pressure and the opposition is coming. Something we've generally been unable to do against good opposition.

Clearly there are some mental issues there as well as our gameplan which is well telegraphed by now and gets busted open when the intensity lifts. As well as the capacity of some of our players who may never develop the whole game level of intensity required.

We're still a good team and have the building blocks if we recruit and trade well.
 
I don't hear those comments very often with us at all

Sometimes we turn on a finals like intensity for a quarter here and there like the first quarter of the Richmond game but we don't sustain it for long enough

I hadn’t heard it up to this week, Cameron Ling and few others saying we like niggle but don’t play tough footy.
 
I wish Berry isn't so hampered with injuries so often. I'd make him Captain and Starcevich his deputy. You want to embody the effort and toughness when the C or VC is next to your name. Berry has it in spades.

Some neutral cats supporter posted it in main board thread and that's when it clicked for me. The Captain I'd like to see is the one who isn't at the top of the list in terms of individual accolades but absolutely bust his gut playing his role and rising the level for his team mates around him.
 

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I haven't gone through the thread yet.
Neale is the obvious choice, unless it is something that he has little interest in. Not everybody wants to be captain. His age doesn't matter to me. Even if he is only captain for 1-2 years he has first hand experience of what a great leader should do due to his time at Freo when Pav was the captain there.
Next in line for me is Starce, he never stops trying all game and leads by example. The captain doesn't have to be the loudest voice but he has to be respected, reliable and lead by example. If Starce does make the shift into a defensive mid next year then he is almost a lock for me as to who I would choose.
Left field choice for me would be Daniher. I know someone floated the idea of him being the forward general but I do wonder if a bit more responsibility would make Joe less prone to flopping etc. Sometime people thrive with added responsibility. I don't know that he would but a team first, pack crashing Daniher would change our forwardline.
I wouldn't make Matho captain but I think he could be deputy-vice. He is completely team first, he fires up the guys and from what I have seen has a lot of attributes you want in a leader. The only thing that holds him back is that he might not be first 22 at times. But 3rd in line would cement him as a leader for the group. Maybe we need to start rewarding guys who make the others around them better, which is something he seems to do.
Clugg is another good option, being that he is already in the leadership group he would have to be the second favourite for the captaincy after Neale. Much like Starc, he never stops trying, he never gives up and leads by example.

I think our leadership group needs to be shrunk down. Captain, Vice-Captain, Deputy-Vice and Reserves Captain.
Lester seems to fill the reserves captain role (from my understanding) last role really well but I also wouldn't be against giving the reserves captaincy to a young player who will definitely be first 22 soon but isn't quite there/a lock and see if it helps them develop traits. IE as much as I think Dev Robertson should be in our first 22, this year it might have been a good to make him the reserves captain, showing some faith in him as a player and a person but maybe with a chat that 'we don't think you are quite there yet but we know you will be and expect you to be there next year but for this year we want you to focus on the 2nds and being a leader so we want you our captain this year in the twos.' I just think if we want our young guys to be leaders going forward we need to start giving them some responsibility now.
Interestingly when Neale was asked who was the best player he played with he only named 2 who stood out. Pav and Zorks.
 
Interestingly when Neale was asked who was the best player he played with he only named 2 who stood out. Pav and Zorks.
Fyfe is/was oodles better than Zorko so that's a strange 2 to name.
Off topic but one thing I did hear about Pav (not sure how true) is that he was recruited as an inside mid but the dockers needs at the time meant he got thrown around the ground a lot, particularly as a KPP. He did get thrown into the middle every now and then but I wonder what kind of career he would have had if he was in a team whose personal had allowed him to play most of his career as a mid. Pav was a really underappreciated player because not only did he play in WA but he played for the Dockers. He probably perfectly fits our needs right now tbh.
 
The one thing that's surprised me out of this saga is that people who are so interested in AFL that they post opinions and have conversations on a public forum are completely oblivious to the things players say to each other on the field.

Much of it's not nice. They're not playing tiddlywinks. What Zorko said isn't up there in some of the stuff players bandy around that the opposition say to put them off their game. Petty's reaction was the only reason this saw the light of day and I agree with everything Buckley said on SEN that someone posted earlier.

Melbourne don't want their dirty laundry aired either.

Zorko's a player that even his own supporters seem to dislike so there was bound to be a pile on.

I wouldn't at all be surprised if this is his last year now. But I hope not. Freed of any leadership roles if he could get his body right he could still be a valuable player.

I love your input and I’ve tried to bite my tounge on this a few times but I’m going to say it.

There’s saying ‘not nice’ stuff and that’s 100% part of the game. With sledging - maybe some mild personal stuff, you blokes are weak, airing some dirty laundry about what a player was rumoured to do off-field - there are things employed to throw players off their game.

There is nothing normal or vanilla about Zorkos sledge though, you wouldn’t hear it in a maximum security prison yard.

I was speaking to a local footballer/cricket player, I’m heavily involved in local footy myself. He said/we agreed - ‘no way would you ever hear that level of sledge, ever, and if you did - both teams would jump on it’.

So I think, hate the pile on because you don’t like the pile on, protect Zorko based on his good outweighing the bad, but playing down, normalising or suggesting what Zorko said as ‘just part of life’ or common on the feild - is so far off the mark.

It is up their with the Cornes/Minson sledge as one of the most horrific things you could say to anyone is any setting, nothing ‘everyday’ about it.
 
Fyfe is/was oodles better than Zorko so that's a strange 2 to name.
Off topic but one thing I did hear about Pav (not sure how true) is that he was recruited as an inside mid but the dockers needs at the time meant he got thrown around the ground a lot, particularly as a KPP. He did get thrown into the middle every now and then but I wonder what kind of career he would have had if he was in a team whose personal had allowed him to play most of his career as a mid. Pav was a really underappreciated player because not only did he play in WA but he played for the Dockers. He probably perfectly fits our needs right now tbh.
He spoke about Nat but said Pav and Zorks were the 2 best.

Zorks has never been appreciated really . Either in the media or by his own supporters.
 
He spoke about Nat but said Pav and Zorks were the 2 best.

Zorks has never been appreciated really . Either in the media or by his own supporters.

I appreciate Zorko’s skill and always have. He has done some wonderful things for the club. But I do not agree with his moral standing. From what I have read during Zorko’s time at the club, the large majority of supporters have appreciated him. Strange take imo.


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I love your input and I’ve tried to bite my tounge on this a few times but I’m going to say it.

There’s saying ‘not nice’ stuff and that’s 100% part of the game. With sledging - maybe some mild personal stuff, you blokes are weak, airing some dirty laundry about what a player was rumoured to do off-field - there are things employed to throw players off their game.

There is nothing normal or vanilla about Zorkos sledge though, you wouldn’t hear it in a maximum security prison yard.

I was speaking to a local footballer/cricket player, I’m heavily involved in local footy myself. He said/we agreed - ‘no way would you ever hear that level of sledge, ever, and if you did - both teams would jump on it’.

So I think, hate the pile on because you don’t like the pile on, protect Zorko based on his good outweighing the bad, but playing down, normalising or suggesting what Zorko said as ‘just part of life’ or common on the feild - is so far off the mark.

It is up their with the Cornes/Minson sledge as one of the most horrific things you could say to anyone is any setting, nothing ‘everyday’ about it.
I didn't seek to normalise it. Just saying a lot worse things have been said to players which frankly couldn't really be printed.

Context is another thing . The leadup to it ,what was said . It came out. Some players mightn't react at all. He'll pay a huge price ultimately.

What Selwood said to Headland goes on all the time. Except sometimes even more imaginative.
 

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