Captaincy / Leadership group

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luthor said:
This is the crux of it.

Among all the outrage and hype this morning on SEN (and no doubt on other media platforms) it took Nathan Buckley to voice the most salient point here.

That is that

1) why did the specifics of what Zorko said have to get aired at all? He said he (Buckley) didn't need to know and didn't know why anyone else needed to know.

and

2) the longer this gets played out the more hurtful it becomes for the injured party, Harrison Petty, who as he pointed out, had accepted the apology and just wanted to move on. So why can't the offended and outraged respect the wishes of the victim?

Potting Bucks for his perceived "treachery" in leaving the Bears 28 years ago has been a recurrent theme on this board but I for one, enjoy his insights and commentary on issues such as this.

It's disrespectful to Petty himself to keep dragging the issue through the public court of outrage

Zorko made an abhorrent remark and I am disgusted by it as anyone.

But can we please express our disgust/anger/displeasure with the deed rather than crucifying Zorko himself.

Somewhere on this Forum someone came up with the theory that Dane Zorko was suffering from "Small man syndrome"

Just have a think about that comment. It's the very essence of vilification. Instead of addressing the issue of the poor behavior, the focus became the physical stature of Dane Zorko, as if that was the reason for the behavior itself. Ridiculous!

Short people everywhere are now being labelled as more likely to be suffering from some kind of "syndrome"

If Dane was tall and Indigenous, would anyone be so bold as to attribute his comments as ""tall black guy syndrome"?

I'm 67 years old and I've said and done many things that I've not only regretted but been downright ashamed of. It's part of being human. We all make gross and grievous errors and misjudgments so before getting on our moral high horses, put yourself in another persons shoes and try to understand how in the heat of the moment we are all susceptible to foot in mouth disease.

Lest my comments be misinterpreted, let me say I think it's time we moved on from Dane's captaincy .He is ill disciplined and prone to brain explosions but that is entirely a different issue.

The real challenge is to find a suitable club captain who will lead by example in word and in deed.
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This was Zorko's last year as Captain without doubt in any case. There'll now be a debate as to whether we keep him as a player.

Unlike others I believe he was a champion player and a good captain who took over the mantle when we were on our knees and led by example. He helped get us off the bottom of the ladder to a significant degree.

It's sad that he'll probably go out like this and sadder still the scant regard that most Lions supporters on this blog seem to have for him.
 
luthor said:
This is the crux of it.

Among all the outrage and hype this morning on SEN (and no doubt on other media platforms) it took Nathan Buckley to voice the most salient point here.

That is that

1) why did the specifics of what Zorko said have to get aired at all? He said he (Buckley) didn't need to know and didn't know why anyone else needed to know.

and

2) the longer this gets played out the more hurtful it becomes for the injured party, Harrison Petty, who as he pointed out, had accepted the apology and just wanted to move on. So why can't the offended and outraged respect the wishes of the victim?

Potting Bucks for his perceived "treachery" in leaving the Bears 28 years ago has been a recurrent theme on this board but I for one, enjoy his insights and commentary on issues such as this.

It's disrespectful to Petty himself to keep dragging the issue through the public court of outrage

Zorko made an abhorrent remark and I am disgusted by it as anyone.

But can we please express our disgust/anger/displeasure with the deed rather than crucifying Zorko himself.

Somewhere on this Forum someone came up with the theory that Dane Zorko was suffering from "Small man syndrome"

Just have a think about that comment. It's the very essence of vilification. Instead of addressing the issue of the poor behavior, the focus became the physical stature of Dane Zorko, as if that was the reason for the behavior itself. Ridiculous!

Short people everywhere are now being labelled as more likely to be suffering from some kind of "syndrome"

If Dane was tall and Indigenous, would anyone be so bold as to attribute his comments as ""tall black guy syndrome"?

I'm 67 years old and I've said and done many things that I've not only regretted but been downright ashamed of. It's part of being human. We all make gross and grievous errors and misjudgments so before getting on our moral high horses, put yourself in another persons shoes and try to understand how in the heat of the moment we are all susceptible to foot in mouth disease.

Lest my comments be misinterpreted, let me say I think it's time we moved on from Dane's captaincy .He is ill disciplined and prone to brain explosions but that is entirely a different issue.

The real challenge is to find a suitable club captain who will lead by example in word and in deed.
Click to expand...
You make a lot of good points, which I accept. In reference to the bolded for me anyway, Dayne has been on the nose for quite some time with his idiotic bahaviour and overall poor and misguided leadership that do nothing for the team other than actually spur on the opposition, the very opposite what it is he is trying to achieve, but I think this latest incidence combined with many other antics in this game is the straw that broke the camels back.

I also hate the fact that the club in a lot of people's estimations has substantially declined due to the conduct of Dayne and personally, I'm sick of it. As a club, like Fagan, Zorko has been great for the club, got us as far as they can, but its time to move and have a changing of the guard.

How is the club best served by continuing this charade for 12 months?
 
martinson said:
This was Zorko's last year as Captain without doubt in any case. There'll now be a debate as to whether we keep him as a player.

Unlike others I believe he was a champion player and a good captain who took over the mantle when we were on our knees and led by example. He helped get us off the bottom of the ladder to a significant degree.

It's sad that he'll probably go out like this and sadder still the scant regard that most Lions supporters on this blog seem to have for him.
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No he didn't, he took over mid-way through 2018 when the sun was starting to shine with young talent and a new head coach. He's had it pretty good ever since. Great player at his best, not remotely close to the champions this club has seen though.

He doesn't lead by example either, his antics on field have been an issue for many years. Multiple scuffles and 50's given away. We all looked the other way though for a long time and admittely he never really crossed the line too much but he lived on that line. The Touk Miller incident was also a great example of poor sportsmanship and poor captaincy.

If people wish to forgive his actions, move on etc, that's totally fine. I just hope he is not captain next year and leave it at that. Frankly he has about 1 year left in him anyway as his body is failing him, I do hope he plays out next year and goes out with grace & humility.
 

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I’m my opinion Neale should be the captain for the next 2 years. Basically just warming the seat because no one else is ready to take the mantle. Hopefully in a couple of years time, a few blokes would have stepped up.

Had locked in Harris a year or two ago as the successor, but his leadership seems to have gone backwards.

I’m a massive Berry fan, but he misses a lot of games. Starce and Hugh the other younger candidates. Would be too much pressure on Cam imo, just let him focus on continuing to progress from his year off in 2021.

The other bloke I would consider is Big O. One of the most professional blokes at the club, leads by his actions and would be supportive, approachable and humble. Would be a good face of the club. Not sure if he has the personality type or not and seems like a quiet bloke. It’s against the norm, but not every leader needs to be an extrovert.

Will be an interesting watch, but either way Zorko’s position is absolutely untenable.


On iPhone using BigFooty.com mobile app
 
luthor said:
This is the crux of it.

Among all the outrage and hype this morning on SEN (and no doubt on other media platforms) it took Nathan Buckley to voice the most salient point here.

That is that

1) why did the specifics of what Zorko said have to get aired at all? He said he (Buckley) didn't need to know and didn't know why anyone else needed to know.

and

2) the longer this gets played out the more hurtful it becomes for the injured party, Harrison Petty, who as he pointed out, had accepted the apology and just wanted to move on. So why can't the offended and outraged respect the wishes of the victim?

Potting Bucks for his perceived "treachery" in leaving the Bears 28 years ago has been a recurrent theme on this board but I for one, enjoy his insights and commentary on issues such as this.

It's disrespectful to Petty himself to keep dragging the issue through the public court of outrage

Zorko made an abhorrent remark and I am disgusted by it as anyone.

But can we please express our disgust/anger/displeasure with the deed rather than crucifying Zorko himself.

Somewhere on this Forum someone came up with the theory that Dane Zorko was suffering from "Small man syndrome"

Just have a think about that comment. It's the very essence of vilification. Instead of addressing the issue of the poor behavior, the focus became the physical stature of Dane Zorko, as if that was the reason for the behavior itself. Ridiculous!

Short people everywhere are now being labelled as more likely to be suffering from some kind of "syndrome"

If Dane was tall and Indigenous, would anyone be so bold as to attribute his comments as ""tall black guy syndrome"?

I'm 67 years old and I've said and done many things that I've not only regretted but been downright ashamed of. It's part of being human. We all make gross and grievous errors and misjudgments so before getting on our moral high horses, put yourself in another persons shoes and try to understand how in the heat of the moment we are all susceptible to foot in mouth disease.

Lest my comments be misinterpreted, let me say I think it's time we moved on from Dane's captaincy .He is ill disciplined and prone to brain explosions but that is entirely a different issue.

The real challenge is to find a suitable club captain who will lead by example in word and in deed.
Click to expand...
What complete nonsense. This is without doubt the most idiotic sentence I’ve ever read on Bigfooty. Was he possessed by evil spirits at the time? Was it an Alien doppelgänger that made this ‘abhorrent’ remark? No. Your captain is the only one responsible. He deserves to be crucified. So does your GM of football. To their credit, the vast majority of Lions supporters agree.
 
SackLunch said:
What complete nonsense. This is without doubt the most idiotic sentence I’ve ever read on Bigfooty. Was he possessed by evil spirits at the time? Was it an Alien doppelgänger that made this ‘abhorrent’ remark? No. Your captain is the only one responsible. He deserves to be crucified. So does your GM of football. To their credit, the vast majority of Lions supporters agree.
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I don’t agree with Luther’s post for the most part, I’m disappointed in Dayne and the clubs inaction.

But whilst we are getting smashed in every aspect and in every media, after watching our season go to shit on Friday, we have one little corner of the earth to huddle together and make sense of it - this thread.

Do you really have to come here and throw your weight around further, telling us what to say and do? Do you think in this little corner of the earth, we need further clarification from a Dees fan about how shit it all is?

It’s not the main board, I’m not going over to moderate your board after the Steven May incident or the Pies thread about Degoey. Just resist the urge.
 
SackLunch said:
What complete nonsense. This is without doubt the most idiotic sentence I’ve ever read on Bigfooty. Was he possessed by evil spirits at the time? Was it an Alien doppelgänger that made this ‘abhorrent’ remark? No. Your captain is the only one responsible. He deserves to be crucified. So does your GM of football. To their credit, the vast majority of Lions supporters agree.
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find this very hard to believe considering danster posts on your team board
 
SackLunch said:
What complete nonsense. This is without doubt the most idiotic sentence I’ve ever read on Bigfooty. Was he possessed by evil spirits at the time? Was it an Alien doppelgänger that made this ‘abhorrent’ remark? No. Your captain is the only one responsible. He deserves to be crucified. So does your GM of football. To their credit, the vast majority of Lions supporters agree.
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So no less than a public stoning then?


 
It sounds like the players voted in the leadership group last year, so it'll be interesting to see if they take this approach again, and who they end up selecting.

Andrews was unanimous choice for VC (Zorko was for C as well), so you'd think Andrews would probably be the players' choice.
 
Look, we absolutely should not be insulting Zorko. Calling out his actions absolutely but not insulting him.

Given the pile on, we/the club should absolutely be providing mental health support to Zorko and ensuring his welfare.

I actually think that removing him from the captaincy and potentially leaving him out of the team for the rest of the season might be one of the best things we can do to support him so that he doesn’t have to deal with the backlash publicly until he has had time and space to process everything that’s happened.
 
luthor said:
Good.

Piss of with your sanctimonious crap

Go back to your own Board and give Stephen May some advice on how to treat his "lesser" team-mates, especially when he is pissed.
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He did acknowledge it was poor and apologise, not sure this response after that self correction, is necessarily ideal.
 

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All of us player sponsors got our signed guernseys or photo last week which sadly means there's no meet up in person which is a bloody shame that's two years in a row.

I sponsored Jezza this year and you'll find this guernsey framed and hung up in OLLIE'S CAFE BULIMBA with our Tezza, Bails and Starce ones from the last 3 years in a week or two - Lethal pops in from time to time and Fages and his wife often have their morning coffee there.
 
I had no sympathy for Zorks when this first came to light but the continued media and public pile on does have me worried about his emotional state. He would be ashamed and devastated by what he said... he is OOC still, he is definitely well past his best, turns 34 before the start of next season and persistently gets niggling injuries, he may think it is just all too much stress for him, any chance he decides to retire?
 
luthor said:
This is the crux of it.

Among all the outrage and hype this morning on SEN (and no doubt on other media platforms) it took Nathan Buckley to voice the most salient point here.

That is that

1) why did the specifics of what Zorko said have to get aired at all? He said he (Buckley) didn't need to know and didn't know why anyone else needed to know.

and

2) the longer this gets played out the more hurtful it becomes for the injured party, Harrison Petty, who as he pointed out, had accepted the apology and just wanted to move on. So why can't the offended and outraged respect the wishes of the victim?

Potting Bucks for his perceived "treachery" in leaving the Bears 28 years ago has been a recurrent theme on this board but I for one, enjoy his insights and commentary on issues such as this.

It's disrespectful to Petty himself to keep dragging the issue through the public court of outrage

Zorko made an abhorrent remark and I am disgusted by it as anyone.

But can we please express our disgust/anger/displeasure with the deed rather than crucifying Zorko himself.

Somewhere on this Forum someone came up with the theory that Dane Zorko was suffering from "Small man syndrome"

Just have a think about that comment. It's the very essence of vilification. Instead of addressing the issue of the poor behavior, the focus became the physical stature of Dane Zorko, as if that was the reason for the behavior itself. Ridiculous!

Short people everywhere are now being labelled as more likely to be suffering from some kind of "syndrome"

If Dane was tall and Indigenous, would anyone be so bold as to attribute his comments as ""tall black guy syndrome"?

I'm 67 years old and I've said and done many things that I've not only regretted but been downright ashamed of. It's part of being human. We all make gross and grievous errors and misjudgments so before getting on our moral high horses, put yourself in another persons shoes and try to understand how in the heat of the moment we are all susceptible to foot in mouth disease.

Lest my comments be misinterpreted, let me say I think it's time we moved on from Dane's captaincy .He is ill disciplined and prone to brain explosions but that is entirely a different issue.

The real challenge is to find a suitable club captain who will lead by example in word and in deed.
Click to expand...
Well said Luthor!
 
McIvor said:
Our family has made the decision not to go to the final as a result of the club's position and support of Zorko by not stripping of him of captaincy or suspending him and publically supporting him.

We'll go watch the reserves instead for games in QLD.
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That should save you around $500 then
 
Suitcase for me if Neale doesn't want it. Born leader
 
scoman said:
What annoys me about Zorko is the fact he doesn't believe any of the crap he carries on with. He belts blokes, headlocks them, wrestles, sledges and carries on all with a stupid smile on his face, cracking jokes and so on. I'm sure he would be more well liked and respected if he showed genuine aggression and didn't back away from it with a stupid smile and a joke, pretending its the oppositions problem they cant handle it.
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I think he should just be nicer. Like the rest of our team. Just nice. You can see how it's working.

As JB said last night we need a dose of nastiness. Like other teams. A few Martin Pikes wouldn't go astray.

Sent from my SM-N920I using Tapatalk
 
Tassie4ever said:
I think he should just be nicer. Like the rest of our team. Just nice. You can see how it's working.

As JB said last night we need a dose of nastiness. Like other teams. A few Martin Pikes wouldn't go astray.

Sent from my SM-N920I using Tapatalk
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We need to be tough. Genuinely tough.

Tough at the ball. Going in for it an not being afraid to get hurt.

Tough at opposition players in laying tackles. Hurting them (legally) when we can. Making them worry about getting caught. Having the whole team with this attitude, including the forward line.

Tough when it comes to gut running until it hurts to stop the opposition getting players free.

Being mentally tough when the momentum is going against us. Actually relishing the opportunity to be the player that turns the tide with an act of toughness, instead of thinking oh no here we go again.

We don't need to be nasty. We don't need Zorko's faux toughness. We can have a player or two who's natural game is to get under the opposition's skin. But the playing group should be focussed on being genuinely tough.
 
Funnily enough I think Robbo is a much better example of toughness. He goes hard at the ball and player, but I dont think in a dirty way. He will just try to go hard within the rules. Personally think the vast majority of people respect players like that
 
Tassie4ever said:
I think he should just be nicer. Like the rest of our team. Just nice. You can see how it's working.

As JB said last night we need a dose of nastiness. Like other teams. A few Martin Pikes wouldn't go astray.

Sent from my SM-N920I using Tapatalk
Click to expand...
We need to be tough, not necessarily nasty.

Tough as in: tough in the contest, physically tough to compete for all 4 quarters, mentally tough to stand up when things are not going your way, and toughness to beat your man and the opposition on the day.

Nastiness as in abusing your opponents, blaming other people when things arten't going well - no thanks.

Being nice and being competitive/resilient are not mutually exclusive. Carrying on like a brat does not mean you are tough.

Our team has the talent to compete, but currently lacks resilience and strong leadership on field, and that is why we fall.
 
The one thing I don’t subscribe to is a lack of overall toughness in a football sense, as said by Ling. Zorkos niggle is annoying but we are generally said to be a tough, contested team.

How often do you here the boundary rider say ‘it’s tough and hard down here, both sides going at it’.

Or hear an oppo coach say, ‘you know what you get againts brisbane, it’s going to be a a contested, bruising affair - we were ready’.

We alway commit to the contest it’s just our structural/team D that’s the issue.

We got the niggle vs contest wrong on Friday and took the bait, but generally we are not a bruise free/soft side.

That’s the one element I have found to be OTT and annoying.
 

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