Carey or Ablett

[FreddyTwoShoes]

Back on topic though, Ablett the footballer changed the experience of watching footy for me. Even though we've won flags since, there was a sense of excitement back then that I've not quite felt since. Obviously flags are the ultimate for a fan, but there was something immediately compelling whenever Snr was playing. It felt like he could do anything he wanted to on a footy field. Laws of physics seemed not to apply. He was just so exciting.

On the other hand, Carey was a man mountain, seemingly unstoppable in the forward structure that Pagan created for him. Possibly the best combination of coaching / strategy / extraordinary player I've seen.

Both extraordinary players, but I'm taking Ablett.

 

[ItsAllAboutMe]

Carey in my book, could almost say he is purely the reason Friday night footy became so successful. I would go to the footy with mates who were North fans purely to see the duck do his thing. They are very different players, and prob the player best to compare Ablett to is Matthews, and that becomes a tricky question..

 

[Bunk Moreland]

Back on topic though, Ablett the footballer changed the experience of watching footy for me. Even though we've won flags since, there was a sense of excitement back then that I've not quite felt since. Obviously flags are the ultimate for a fan, but there was something immediately compelling whenever Snr was playing. It felt like he could do anything he wanted to on a footy field. Laws of physics seemed not to apply. He was just so exciting.

On the other hand, Carey was a man mountain, seemingly unstoppable in the forward structure that Pagan created for him. Possibly the best combination of coaching / strategy / extraordinary player I've seen.

Both extraordinary players, but I'm taking Ablett.

Pagan played a huge part in Carey's success. He's seriously underrated as a coach. His record his superb. He's a big part of making Carey who he was by entirely building the Kangaroos around him.

Ablett was a different personality that coaches definitely would've found much harder to harness. Particularly a fellow savant like Blight.

 

[CharacterFirst]

I think Carey was a wonderful player. I marvelled at his performance. Truly one of the great champions of the game.

But he couldn't do on the field what GAS did week-in, week-out. No one ever has been able to.

GAS has everyone covered for pure brilliance. He was staggeringly, jaw-droppingly good.

 

[greatwhiteshark]

Both legends but Ablett snr for me. Still the only player in my lifetime I have gone to watch a game of football just to see him play.
I would go and watch Geelong V fremantle simply because of him.
You don't get the nickname God by accident. Best player I have seen by quite some margin and I have been watching since 1973.
First player I would pick in any team.

Should be an elevated Legend and will be in time, not sure why they are delaying it but it's just a delay.

 

[citizen-erased]

Ablett was the fun one to watch, and as a kid he was one of those superstars you'd pretend to be in the backyard.

Carey you hated cos he was so dominant.
If i'm picking a player to win you games in any era, i go Carey..but it's the closest of calls.

but i'd argue Ablett has the greater legacy as a legend of the game.

 

[Freddy Swift]

Both legends but Ablett snr for me. Still the only player in my lifetime I have gone to watch a game of football just to see him play.
I would go and watch Geelong V fremantle simply because of him.
You don't get the nickname God by accident. Best player I have seen by quite some margin and I have been watching since 1973.
First player I would pick in any team.

Should be an elevated Legend and will be in time, not sure why they are delaying it but it's just a delay.

Part of the selection criteria is character. Perhaps they feel he doesn’t meet this part. Barry Cable would be lucky he’s already in.

 

[Bunk Moreland]

Both legends but Ablett snr for me. Still the only player in my lifetime I have gone to watch a game of football just to see him play.
I would go and watch Geelong V fremantle simply because of him.
You don't get the nickname God by accident. Best player I have seen by quite some margin and I have been watching since 1973.
First player I would pick in any team.

Should be an elevated Legend and will be in time, not sure why they are delaying it but it's just a delay.

PR. He has a bad history and the odd time you do hear from him publicly, it’s some kind of weird nutter stuff.

No way the AFL puts him on a stage or a pedestal for fear of what he might say and / or the reaction.

If it happens then, sadly for him, I think it’ll be posthumously.

 

[Sttew]

Cats fans would spew if I didn’t mention Carey is the most successful footballer in his family.

If the “Ablett” in the thread title refers to Gary Ablett Snr as most seem to be assuming, then he is actually the 7th most successful footballer in his own family. Good for a few party tricks occasionally but you cannot take a guy seriously in a discussion like this when he is the 7th most successful footballer in his own family, stupid thread.

That should set a pigeon amongst the cats.

Don’t be Sttewpid. How are you going to be a better player than Wayne Carey if you are the 7th most successful footballer in your own family? Strange place, strange club, strange supporters.

Meteoric Rise as always doing his best to derail a thread.... because it's what he does best

 

[greatwhiteshark]

PR. He has a bad history and the odd time you do hear from him publicly, it’s some kind of weird nutter stuff.

No way the AFL puts him on a stage or a pedestal for fear of what he might say and / or the reaction.

If it happens then, sadly for him, I think it’ll be posthumously.

Yep the world we live in where the best of the best don't get their deserves because it may offend someone. Most of this character stuff has been written in in recent years.
Anyway I know he is the greatest of all legends of the game as do most people that know the game. If the AFL want to exclude their best and greatest players then it really just makes the HOF a joke in my opinion.

 

[greatwhiteshark]

Part of the selection criteria is character. Perhaps they feel he doesn’t meet this part. Barry Cable would be lucky he’s already in.

Yes they are worried it might offend someone. Just do it, the night will come and go and the offended will get on with their life.

 

[BF Tiger]

Don’t make choose! You pick first and I’ll happily take whoever is left.

 

[Tackle Bag]

What about the big games ?

How many in Grand finals ? did they win ?

To be fair it took an almighty side in Hawthorn to stop Ablett in 89. Not sure he could have done anything more.

 

[Lingsface]

I was under the impression this thread was debating the merits of Carey vs Ablett Snr. as footballers...not rehashing value judgements about them as people again (they're both not great people) - which has been done to death on on here?

Maybe stay on topic hey, or risk derailing the thread pretty quickly? It's a good discussion, but this crap is ruining it.

Couldn’t agree more!

Ablett is the Jordan of AFL, everyone grew up wanting to be him, played like no one else and dominated.

Carey was also a beast and had as much presence as anyone. I’d take Ablett just on that top 3-5 percent of his ability was on another level to anyone that has played.

 

[Bunk Moreland]

 

[ThatsjustDappa]

Carey in my book, could almost say he is purely the reason Friday night footy became so successful. I would go to the footy with mates who were North fans purely to see the duck do his thing. They are very different players, and prob the player best to compare Ablett to is Matthews, and that becomes a tricky question..

Remember back in the day seeing neutrals turn up to Geelong games just to see Ablett play. Not just a few either it was really noticeable.

 

[Cyber_punk]

Ablett did win a Norm Smith, arguably the best ever performance in a losing grand final team.

I reckon you could argue Wayne lost a grand final for North too. Was garbage against the Crows.

Kicking 8.22 (6.15 to half time) was what lost it, not just Wayne.

 

[RUNVS]

View attachment 1612737

 

[Trahanas22]

Couldn’t agree more!

Ablett is the Jordan of AFL, everyone grew up wanting to be him, played like no one else and dominated.

Carey was also a beast and had as much presence as anyone. I’d take Ablett just on that top 3-5 percent of his ability was on another level to anyone that has played.

More like the Wilt Chamberlain of the AFL, mate. Jordan was the highest scorer when he was dominating but also one of the best -if not the best outright-defensive guards of his generation. A team player, paradoxically. Chamberlain has achieved stats in the court that will never be surpassed. But Jordan won way more NBA titles than him. Six to two, hence he is widely considered the best player ever even if, statistically speaking, he is inferior to Chamberlain.

Same story with Carey vs Ablett. It wasn’t Ablett who was really playing for the Cats. It was the Cats playing for him, providing an ultimately unsuccessful platform to exhibit his individual footy skills. Hence the lack of premierships, which was anything but accidental. In a list which needed much more cake than frosting, he provided extra frosting. Not a team player. Not fit for purpose.

The purpose for a team sport of 22-23 players per team is to win flags. No circus acts and freaky goals, leading to no real achievements whatsoever. Carey was way more of a footballer’s footballer than Ablett. North Melbourne’ whole offensive game was based around him. Not only him kicking goals but creating goals for his teammates as well. Pagan’s paddock was Carey’s paddock. No Carey, no premierships for North. An excellent, excellent player. Both cake and frosting. What Nick Riewoldt tried to be his whole career, without ever achieving it.

That’s why Pagan flopped at Carlton. Wayne was not there. Clearly Carey way, way better than Ablett...

 

[Bunk Moreland]

More like the Wilt Chamberlain of the AFL, mate. Jordan was the highest scorer when he was dominating but also one of the best -if not the best outright-defensive guards of his generation. A team player, paradoxically. Chamberlain has achieved stats in the court that will never be surpassed. But Jordan won way more NBA titles than him. Six to two, hence he is widely considered the best player ever even if, statistically speaking, he is inferior to Chamberlain.

Same story with Carey vs Ablett. It wasn’t Ablett who was really playing for the Cats. It was the Cats playing for him, providing an ultimately unsuccessful platform to exhibit his individual footy skills. Hence the lack of premierships, which was anything but accidental. In a list which needed much more cake than frosting, he provided extra frosting. Not a team player. Not fit for purpose.

The purpose for a team sport of 22-23 players per team is to win flags. No circus acts and freaky goals, leading to no real achievements whatsoever. Carey was way more of a footballer’s footballer than Ablett. North Melbourne’ whole offensive game was based around him. Not only him kicking goals but creating goals for his teammates as well. Pagan’s paddock was Carey’s paddock. No Carey, no premierships for North. An excellent, excellent player. Both cake and frosting. What Nick Riewoldt tried to be his whole career, without ever achieving it.

That’s why Pagan flopped at Carlton. Wayne was not there. Clearly Carey way, way better than Ablett...

Rating players highly just because they played in flags is simplistic analysis. The Geelong sides Ablett was in were super teams, they played in four GFs in seven years and didn't do a whole lot wrong apart from running into three of the most dominant sides in recent decades in Hawthorn, West Coast and 95 Carlton. They weren't some sideshow based around giving Ablett a platform.

Give them a 98 Adelaide or 99 Carlton in a Grand Final - two of North's GF opponents - and they'd have won flags.

 

[Trahanas22]

Rating players highly just because they played in flags is simplistic analysis. The Geelong sides Ablett was in were super teams, they played in four GFs in seven years and didn't do a whole lot wrong apart from running into three of the most dominant sides in recent decades in Hawthorn, West Coast and 95 Carlton. They weren't some sideshow based around giving Ablett a platform.

Give them a 98 Adelaide or 99 Carlton in a Grand Final - two of North's GF opponents - and they'd have won flags.

Ahem, Adelaide actually beat North Melbourne in the 1998 GF! So, you are actually disproving the point you are trying to make. Adelaide were as good a grand final performer as the Eagles vs Geelong, if no better. So, North Melbourne would have won more premierships if they didn’t face them and had Granny losers as opponents, such as Collingwood or St Kilda.

 

[Crusty Demon]

Ablett is the only player I've ever paid money to go see outside of my own club. Absolute freak. None better

 

[My Tilly]

That’s why Pagan flopped at Carlton. Wayne was not there. Clearly Carey way, way better than Ablett...

No.
Carlton flopped because they were sanctioned for handing out players big sweaty paper bags under the table for years.
This forced them to say goodbye to certain players and with no quality kids coming through due to drafting restrictions, they were up sh*t creek.
It literally set them back at least 15 years.

Not even a couple of John Coleman's in their forward line would have made much difference.

 

[Corn Cobbers]

Remember back in the day seeing neutrals turn up to Geelong games just to see Ablett play. Not just a few either it was really noticeable.

Yeah I knew a bunch of neutrals who would drive down to Geelong to watch him play, several times a year.

He was the ultimate, had everything, plus more.

The answer is always Ablett.

 

[greatwhiteshark]

More like the Wilt Chamberlain of the AFL, mate. Jordan was the highest scorer when he was dominating but also one of the best -if not the best outright-defensive guards of his generation. A team player, paradoxically. Chamberlain has achieved stats in the court that will never be surpassed. But Jordan won way more NBA titles than him. Six to two, hence he is widely considered the best player ever even if, statistically speaking, he is inferior to Chamberlain.

Same story with Carey vs Ablett. It wasn’t Ablett who was really playing for the Cats. It was the Cats playing for him, providing an ultimately unsuccessful platform to exhibit his individual footy skills. Hence the lack of premierships, which was anything but accidental. In a list which needed much more cake than frosting, he provided extra frosting. Not a team player. Not fit for purpose.

The purpose for a team sport of 22-23 players per team is to win flags. No circus acts and freaky goals, leading to no real achievements whatsoever. Carey was way more of a footballer’s footballer than Ablett. North Melbourne’ whole offensive game was based around him. Not only him kicking goals but creating goals for his teammates as well. Pagan’s paddock was Carey’s paddock. No Carey, no premierships for North. An excellent, excellent player. Both cake and frosting. What Nick Riewoldt tried to be his whole career, without ever achieving it.

That’s why Pagan flopped at Carlton. Wayne was not there. Clearly Carey way, way better than Ablett...

Nope, sometimes you just don’t have enough help.