Dunstall vs Lockett vs Carey vs Ablett vs Lloyd vs Franklin vs J Brown - Who is the most Elite of them all?

[RUNVS]

If it was much easier to kick goals during Carey's era, how come only a very small portion of all CHF's in the history of the game could manage 3 goals per match?

Franklin was a superstar. Probably the most athletic big man the game has ever seen. But Carey was on another level by comparison.

Majority of the 100+ goals per season happened in the 80's and 90's. Even a player like Brian Taylor could kick bags of goals back then.

 

[Vintage]

Franklin the best forward flank, not a KPP.

Carey the best CHF.

Lockett the best old fashioned FF, lazy and unfit and undisciplined but the best kick ever.

Ablett the God of football. A winger. Ridiculous he was able to play FF yet he's in the discussion as GOAT FF.

Dunstall if you want to win. Fast, strong/fat, actually fit, superb defensive forward, professional. He and Carey would flourish today.

Lloyd a lesser Dunstall, and our Bomber friend is right, criminally under rated.

J Brown brave and effective but injury prone and simply not in tge same bracket as these.

J Riewoldt unlucky, superb at all facets of the game and only Carey a better leader in this group.

Great summary

 

[My Tilly]

Majority of the 100+ goals per season happened in the 80's and 90's. Even a player like Brian Taylor could kick bags of goals back then.

Brian Taylor was a star. 6ft'3 and a pair of vice-like hands.
He would be a better footballer than Jack Darling if he played today. Better mark and had an aggressive streak which made him a tough opponent for any champion defender of the time.

 

[Robroy22]

Brian Taylor was a star. 6ft'3 and a pair of vice-like hands.
He would be a better footballer than Jack Darling if he played today. Better mark and had an aggressive streak which made him a tough opponent for any champion defender of the time.

And he played most of his career on one leg! His degenerative knee problems were positively debilitating. Still kicked bulk goals on his one remaining peg.

 

[OneEyedHawk]

Carey
Ablett
Dunstall
Lockett

The other 3 trailing a fair way behind.

 

[AlwaysHawks15]

IMO, Lockett was the greatest player to play the game. Nobody but nobody could go with Lockett. As evidenced by his 14g 7b on the full back of last century in Silvagni. The others had players that could nullify them eg Jakovich on Carey.

If Lockett had of played for Hawthorn for most of his career he would have kicked over 2000 goals. He kicked most of his goals in very ordinary St Kilda teams. As Danny Frawley once said "he is the Bradman of our sport".

He could also play anywhere. In a state game v SA in Adelaide he was put into the ruck and swung the game Victoria's way.

Totally disrespectful towards Dunstall . Laughable comments. You either didn't watch Dunstall play much or your a few cans deep and not thinking rationally. Locker had the advantage of being a massive immovable object. Brilliant player but far out Dunstall was basically the same player. Would have thought having multiple options in the forward line around him makes it harder to kick 100 goals a season. Lockett had Loewe taking goals off him that's about it. Had he not missed the best part of the last 2 years of his career would have gone well past 1300 goals and set a target for Lockett to chase. He missed chunks of footy in at least 3-4 other seasons throughout his career too. Lockett kicked more double digit bags absolutely but kicking 6 a game I reckon you will find Dunstall did that more frequently. There both Champion players and there isn't a clear gap like your saying. Complete rubbish.

 

[Handsome.B.Wonderful]

Not sure if it has already been mentioned previously, but what the F is Jonathan Brown doing in this thread?

Nice player, elite at times, but not in this category.

 

[PowerfulPies2023]

Carey was a flop in Granny's or failed to really produce? I cbf checking stats.

G Ablett was good in one, decent in 92 but poor in 94 and 95. One goal in total in those 2 vs McIntosh/Brennan? and Silvagni. Plugger only had one GF appearance for 6 snags. J.D was the best. Franklin did sweet f.a really as well. Lloyd did his part with 4 in 2000 and 5 in 2001.

J.D was the best kick for goal and the best and most reliable, consistent FF in the big one's. He's on par with Lockett and Ablett easily.

 

[Nuggets73]

Dunstall - Best work ethic, defensively far superior to everyone mentioned
Lockett - Beast of a man, couldn’t be shifted … elite set shot
Carey - Had the grace and poise of an elite mid …. at 6ft 4 and 100 kg
Senior - The most pure footballer I’ve ever seen, he was a freak … sadly had a terrible attitude

You could seriously mount a strong case for any of them … bit like asking to pick between a Porsche, Ferrari, AMG and Lamborghini

PS - No disrespect to Browny - but he’s not in this league, Alastair Lynch was a better player than Brown

 

[My Tilly]

Carey was a flop in Granny's or failed to really produce? I cbf checking stats.

G Ablett was good in one, decent in 92 but poor in 94 and 95. One goal in total in those 2 vs McIntosh/Brennan? and Silvagni. Plugger only had one GF appearance for 6 snags. J.D was the best. Franklin did sweet f.a really as well. Lloyd did his part with 4 in 2000 and 5 in 2001.

J.D was the best kick for goal and the best and most reliable, consistent FF in the big one's. He's on par with Lockett and Ablett easily.

Carey wasn't a flop in grand finals. He just never dominated in any of them but he certainly played his part.
In many ways, similar to Ablett in the 1992 grand final.

Dunstall's record in grand finals is excellent. Hawthorn usually won comprehensively and the likes of Buckenara, Brereton also booted bags of goals. Dunstall only ever played in one losing grand final where he kicked 0 goals (first season of football).

If we are talking specifically grand finals, Sticks Kernahan averaged 4.2 goals in grand finals, including 7 in a losing effort against Essendon. His overall finals record is sublime considering he played centre half-forward.
More impressively, his State of Origin record is unbelievable. At the pinnacle of State footy when it was no different to finals intensity, Kernahan booted 66 goals in 16 matches for South Australia.

 

[Darealrath]

Carey wasn't a flop in grand finals. He just never dominated in any of them but he certainly played his part.
In many ways, similar to Ablett in the 1992 grand final.

Dunstall's record in grand finals is excellent. Hawthorn usually won comprehensively and the likes of Buckenara, Brereton also booted bags of goals. Dunstall only ever played in one losing grand final where he kicked 0 goals (first season of football).

If we are talking specifically grand finals, Sticks Kernahan averaged 4.2 goals in grand finals, including 7 in a losing effort against Essendon. His overall finals record is sublime considering he played centre half-forward.
More impressively, his State of Origin record is unbelievable. At the pinnacle of State footy when it was no different to finals intensity, Kernahan booted 66 goals in 16 matches for South Australia.

EDIT: Randall Stevens has pointed out that I didn't take into account Salmon only kicking a couple in the '90 GF so I've fixed the below table, but will leave the text for my shame.

Would you believe that Hawthorn ruckman of the century Paul Salmon averaged more goals in Grand Finals than Dunstall, Ablett Senior, Lloyd and Kernahan? Destroyed Silvagni in '93 with 5 and kicked 6 against Hawthorn in '85. Fair effort given both were post knee when he looked like he could have been one of the all-time great FFs, and he might still have been played out of position for 3/4 of his career.

Lockett kicking 6 in '96 just pips him.

FWIW they went:

Lockett: 6 = 6
Dunstall: 0, 6, 7, 4, 6 = 4.6
Lloyd: 4, 5 = 4.5
Salmon: 6, 2, 5 = 4.3
Kernahan: 2, 3, 7, 5 = 4.3
Ablett Sr: 9, 3, 1, 0 = 3.3

I voted Ablett Sr btw.

 

[My Tilly]

Would you believe that Hawthorn ruckman of the century Paul Salmon averaged more goals in Grand Finals than Dunstall, Ablett Senior, Lloyd and Kernahan? Destroyed Silvagni in '93 with 5 and kicked 6 against Hawthorn in '85. Fair effort given both were post knee when he looked like he could have been one of the all-time great FFs, and he might still have been played out of position for 3/4 of his career.

Lockett kicking 6 in '96 just pips him.

FWIW they went:

Lockett: 6 = 6
Salmon: 6, 5 = 5.5
Dunstall: 0, 6, 7, 4, 6 = 4.6
Lloyd: 4, 5 = 4.5
Kernahan: 2, 3, 7, 5 = 4.3
Ablett Sr: 9, 3, 1, 0 = 3.3

I voted Ablett Sr btw.

Smaller sample size though but nonetheless, Salmon was a beast. Even when he returned from a serious knee injury, he was still a dominant force but certainly lost some of that god-given natural athleticism he was displaying in his first two years of football.

 

[cliffdrabble]

Totally disrespectful towards Dunstall . Laughable comments. You either didn't watch Dunstall play much or your a few cans deep and not thinking rationally. Locker had the advantage of being a massive immovable object. Brilliant player but far out Dunstall was basically the same player. Would have thought having multiple options in the forward line around him makes it harder to kick 100 goals a season. Lockett had Loewe taking goals off him that's about it. Had he not missed the best part of the last 2 years of his career would have gone well past 1300 goals and set a target for Lockett to chase. He missed chunks of footy in at least 3-4 other seasons throughout his career too. Lockett kicked more double digit bags absolutely but kicking 6 a game I reckon you will find Dunstall did that more frequently. There both Champion players and there isn't a clear gap like your saying. Complete rubbish.

Laughable comments? I watched both many times tear my side apart.

Dermot Brereton said he played FF for Hawthorn in a game and kicked 8 goals and said he could not believe how easy it was with the skill of players kicking it to him. Hawthorn had the best side in the League for most of Dunstall's career and scored heavily. Locket at the Saints had almost the opposite.

Saying Lockett is better is no disrespect to Dunstall. Thinking that a FF who has kicked more goals in his career whilst playing for 90% of the time in seriously inferior teams is not a stretch . I think Dermot Brereton and Danny Frawley may agree with me.

I also watched Peter Hudson in many games in his career and rate him on the same level as Dunstall. Only a devastating knee injury stopped Hudson from reaching the record of goals scored. And a king hit from the club of 'king hit merchants' in St kilda stopped Hudson from reaching the 'most goals in a season' record.

 

[Randall Stevens]

Would you believe that Hawthorn ruckman of the century Paul Salmon averaged more goals in Grand Finals than Dunstall, Ablett Senior, Lloyd and Kernahan? Destroyed Silvagni in '93 with 5 and kicked 6 against Hawthorn in '85. Fair effort given both were post knee when he looked like he could have been one of the all-time great FFs, and he might still have been played out of position for 3/4 of his career.

Lockett kicking 6 in '96 just pips him.

FWIW they went:

Lockett: 6 = 6
Salmon: 6, 5 = 5.5
Dunstall: 0, 6, 7, 4, 6 = 4.6
Lloyd: 4, 5 = 4.5
Kernahan: 2, 3, 7, 5 = 4.3
Ablett Sr: 9, 3, 1, 0 = 3.3

I voted Ablett Sr btw.

Salmon played in 1990 GF and kicked 2 goals (of team total 5).
So his average is 4.3, which is still impressive but drops him down your list.

 

[Darealrath]

Salmon played in 1990 GF and kicked 2 goals (of team total 5).
So his average is 4.3, which is still impressive but drops him down your list.

Oh you are right! My mistake. Must be some psychological thing at work that caused me to erase it from my memory.

 

[Jonts]

J Brown is 2 levels behind some of them

 

[Captain_Bender]

Carey
Lockett
Dustall
Franklin
Ablett
Lloyd
Brown

 

[Aristotle Pickett]

Equal 1st - Ablett , Carey , Lockett
4.Franklin
Gap
5. Brown
6. Dunstall
Gap
7. Lloyd

 

[The Old Dark Navy's]

Dunstall
Lockett
Ablett
Carey
Franklin
Lloyd
Brown

 

[peetoo]

Equal 1st - Ablett , Carey , Lockett
4.Franklin
Gap
5. Brown
6. Dunstall
Gap
7. Lloyd

Before the first gap, 4 flags
After the gap, 8

 

[lordbob]

Pound for pound, Tom Hawkins (and Lockett) literally rag dolled everyone throughout their careers. The only defender Hawkins has struggled to maneuver has been Steven May.

How'd he go against brian lake?

 

[My Tilly]

How'd he go against brian lake?

Not very good. Lake is another defender Hawkins struggled against.
May a little stronger than Lake though. Have seen him physically push Hawkins to one side in a battle of strength on numerous occasions.
Lake incredibly powerful too but more savvy of a defender and arguably a level above Steven May from a purist point of view.

 

[Priddis Is Done]

If Treadra played his whole career like his 2 to 3 year purple patch, then he'd be above them all.

 

[gungho]

Three of these guys have legitimate claims of being the greatest of all time.
One is a champion of the game.
Then there is Browny and Lloydy. (I'm not quite sure why they are in the conversation).

 

[GoldbergsGold]

It's hard to split Carey and Ablett up the top, then Lockett and Dunstall. But I don't get why Brown is mentioned on this list yet Fevola isn't on it, Fev was far superior.