Carey or Ablett

[Vdubs]

What was his criminal record for apart from the Bruns incident which was on field?

Nicholls is probably lucky to be in there also. No Cable hasn’t been charged, he’s refusing to answer any questions.

I don’t particularly care if these people are made legends or not, but the AFL is all about image and they would care about the backlash they might get from the public and the media.

Yep, the Bruns incident.
He did some carnage to Cable as well, that's why I thought you meant Lethal.

 

[Bunk Moreland]

Wow when I called Leigh Matthews a thug in another thread I was told off in no uncertain terms by a Cat supporter. Said as a Richmond fan I had no right to call anyone a thug. Perhaps the Cat fan is too young to remember Neville Bruns.

Massive thug. He did some very poor, cowardly things on the footy field. We can recognise that while still praising his courage and skill.

 

[Theicon]

Couldn’t agree more!

Ablett is the Jordan of AFL, everyone grew up wanting to be him, played like no one else and dominated.

Carey was also a beast and had as much presence as anyone. I’d take Ablett just on that top 3-5 percent of his ability was on another level to anyone that has played.

Ablett can't be Jordan, Jordan got it done on the biggest stage won 6 titles. No one is Jordan in any other sport. Having said that Carey is closer to being the Jordan of the AFL, star of the 90s and took his club to the promise land.

Ablett is more like Allen Iverson or Charles Barkley, freakishly good but couldn't get it done.

Carey like Jordan was integral to his team's success. Carey in 97 had a similar year to Jordan in 95, misses most of the season and then comes back and helps North win 5 of the last 7 and then single handedly beat Geelong in the QF.

 

[Saint]

Carey. Carried that team all the time during his prime and won Grand Finals.

Carey was double-teamed by the good teams. The game plans was to basically leave Carey outnumbered.

Ablett's record is improved by how attacking the cats were during that era, often losing when he kicked big bags.

Ablett barely played in 1991 and the Cats still only just missed playing in the Grand Final.

 

[greatwhiteshark]

Ablett can't be Jordan, Jordan got it done on the biggest stage won 6 titles. No one is Jordan in any other sport. Having said that Carey is closer to being the Jordan of the AFL, star of the 90s and took his club to the promise land.

Ablett is more like Allen Iverson or Charles Barkley, freakishly good but couldn't get it done.

Carey like Jordan was integral to his team's success. Carey in 97 had a similar year to Jordan in 95, misses most of the season and then comes back and helps North win 5 of the last 7 and then single handedly beat Geelong in the QF.

So you are of the opinion that all premiership players are better than Ablett Snr? Bradman is Double Jordan and the greatest ever sportsman the world has seen.
Not abletts fault he played in average sides, they don't make finals ever without him.

 

[Trav 20]

Carey. Carried that team all the time during his prime and won Grand Finals.

Carey was double-teamed by the good teams. The game plans was to basically leave Carey outnumbered.

Ablett's record is improved by how attacking the cats were during that era, often losing when he kicked big bags.

Ablett barely played in 1991 and the Cats still only just missed playing in the Grand Final.

Actually, a poster clarified this.

Ablett kicked 7 goals + 45 times and Geelong won 38 of those games.

Carey kicked 5 goals + 45 times and North won 38 of those games. An interesting coincidence with the numbers.

 

[Theicon]

So you are of the opinion that all premiership players are better than Ablett Snr? Bradman is Double Jordan and the greatest ever sportsman the world has seen.
Not abletts fault he played in average sides, they don't make finals ever without him.

Where did I say all premiership players are better than Ablett?
I said Ablett is not Jordan.

And Geelong did make the finals in 1991 even though he only played 11 games.
The year after his retirement Geelong finished 2nd on the ladder.

Obviously Geelong wouldn't have won as many games without Ablett, but North doesn't get to 7 prelims and wins 2 premierships without Carey. North was crap before Carey and we have been mediocre since.

 

[Toump Ass]

North doesn't get to 7 prelims and wins 2 premierships without Carey. North was crap before Carey and we have been mediocre since.

I thought North made at least a couple of prelims under Brad Scott.

 

[sleep]

People who saw only Carey's career will say Carey, people who saw both their careers will say Snr.

 

[Trav 20]

People who saw only Carey's career will say Carey, people who saw both their careers will say Snr.

I saw both.

Ablett was more individually brilliant, but Carey impacted his team's fortunes more. So it's Carey for me.

Both top half dozen in the history of the game, so it's no slight on Ablett if someone puts Carey ahead.

Like it or not, the lack of premierships unfortunately counts.

Maybe I can say, Ablett the better player and Carey the more influential player. It sort of sums it up for me.

 

[Lingsface]

Ablett can't be Jordan, Jordan got it done on the biggest stage won 6 titles. No one is Jordan in any other sport. Having said that Carey is closer to being the Jordan of the AFL, star of the 90s and took his club to the promise land.

Ablett is more like Allen Iverson or Charles Barkley, freakishly good but couldn't get it done.

Carey like Jordan was integral to his team's success. Carey in 97 had a similar year to Jordan in 95, misses most of the season and then comes back and helps North win 5 of the last 7 and then single handedly beat Geelong in the QF.

I explained my reasoning in an earlier post.

 

[Catsnlakers]

I saw both.

Ablett was more individually brilliant, but Carey impacted his team's fortunes more. So it's Carey for me.

Both top half dozen in the history of the game, so it's no slight on Ablett if someone puts Carey ahead.

Like it or not, the lack of premierships unfortunately counts.

Maybe I can say, Ablett the better player and Carey the more influential player. It sort of sums it up for me.

Both all time greats, but Ablett’s peak (89 finals series) is pretty well regarded as the highest level that football has been played….I recall Tim Watson during an interview stating that every player he chatted with in his era felt inept when playing on Ablett, because a certain player will have particular strengths, be it speed, strength, brutality etc….But playing on Ablett they became inconsequential because he had every string to his bow & more.

 

[Trav 20]

Both all time greats, but Ablett’s peak (89 finals series) is pretty well regarded as the highest level that football has been played….I recall Tim Watson during an interview stating that every player he chatted with in his era felt inept when playing on Ablett, because a certain player will have particular strengths, be it speed, strength, brutality etc….But playing on Ablett they became inconsequential because he had every string to his bow & more.

I can imagine this.

 

[Bunnings]

How in the hell are people equating all of norths team success on Carey and all of Abletts non team success on him. This is BigFooty at its finest.

 

[Cdog71]

Hard to say.
But I think Carey’s standing in court and giving a character reference for Jason Moran just nudges him ahead.
Carey for mine.

 

[Deadly Darcy]

People who saw only Carey's career will say Carey, people who saw both their careers will say Snr.

Saw both and it’s still Carey for me. Would pay big money to watch either play at their peak but Carey v Jakovich was just just tough amazing footy with two players that didn’t give an inch. They both made you make involuntary noises at the ridiculous things they could do on the field though.

Shame the duck is such a flog and senior lost his f’ing marbles but maybe absolute genius is only achieved through madness!!

 

[Vdubs]

The discussion is futile. What Gary senior has given to footy is way more than Carey's contribution.
Firstly, his frequently displayed sublime skills. Not talking leadership or finals results, just the exquisite footy skills. Ablett wins.
Secondly, and as importantly- GARY ABLETT junior. What better contribution to football is needed? Without Senior, 1982-1996, no Junior, 2002 - 2020.
34 years of sheer genius football we have been privileged to enjoy.

 

[Vdubs]

Saw both and it’s still Carey for me. Would pay big money to watch either play at their peak but Carey v Jakovich was just just tough amazing footy with two players that didn’t give an inch. They both made you make involuntary noises at the ridiculous things they could do on the field though.

Shame the duck is such a flog and senior lost his f’ing marbles but maybe absolute genius is only achieved through madness!!

Ablett once kicked 10 goals v Adelaide 1993, away, and not a single Brownlow vote. Such was his brilliance and dominance, that it was expected, and if no freakish goals, he had an ordinary game. And, yes, we lost. That was the day Blighty formed a guard of honour with the Cats players for the Crows. Ridiculous, and did not work in Geelong's favour

 

[JimmyBC]

Geelong supporter says Ablett Snr no contest.. shocked

 

[Vdubs]

Geelong supporter says Ablett Snr no contest.. shocked

Of course it's a contest- was tongue in cheek post. Carey is easily the second best player I've ever seen, and easily the best non Cats player ever.

But I do fondly recall 93- Ablett was MVP, and won an award and Carey was on one of those TV footy shows, and made the comment- you've got Gary Ablett, then there's us. I know that since then, the King has not put Ablett as his best player...matters not, they're both in calculations, and should be LEGENDS

 

[Jhye Clark 13]

Ablett almost took an average side to a flag against one of the best sides I've seen. He's the best player I've seen by a big margin. Nobody can do the things he could. He had the most power, the best kick - left or right - he was the most explosive, could out jump anyone and was as tough as nails ... An absolute freak. We'll never see anyone like him again.

And he played wing/HF for the most part of his career. Amazing.

Carey was a superstar himself in a system designed for him by a master tactician.

No blight on Carey but he isn't close to the the capabilities of SNR.

 

[My Tilly]

One thing is for sure, Carey always looked as though he enjoyed himself and was pretty happy with some of his exploits.

Ablett looked depressed and nonchalant even when he would produce something spectacular. Rarely celebrated. The game seemed to be a bit of a burden.

 

[Trahanas22]

How in the hell are people equating all of norths team success on Carey and all of Abletts non team success on him. This is BigFooty at its finest.

Because without Carey North Melbourne weren’t premiership material. They may have made quite a few prelims or grannies but they would have won zero flags. They would have been a very similar outfit to Geelong in Ablett’s era. Close, but no cigar.

Here is an article which is explains Carey importance, by analysing Pagan’s paddock, which of course was Carey’s paddock:

The evolution of Pagan’s Paddock

Ask the majority of North Melbourne fans who ‘Pagan’s Paddock’ was built for, and the answer you’ll receive is ‘Wayne Carey’.

www.nmfc.com.au

Quotes:

“As Darren Crocker picks up the story, he reflects on 1996 after a belting at the hands of Sydney in Round 11.

“It was the first time we’d ever encountered a team really dropping numbers back against us and basically surrounding Wayne Carey,” Crocker explained.”

“Basically what the opposition and Rodney Eade (Sydney coach) were doing, they were using Carey as a reference point. Thinking we’d always go forward and kick it to him, in that particular game they played with eight defenders.”

“Nevertheless, North retreated to the training track and worked on ways to combat the Swans’ extra defenders.

“So from that time on, we started to play around with bringing everyone up in front of Duck so he was basically the last forward, closest to the goal,” Crocker explained.”

“Even if he was surrounded by numbers, instead of kicking it to him we’d kick it to the space over the back of him. That would then give the likes of Brett Allison, Peter Bell, Robert Scott, Glenn Freeborn, really quick types running onto the ball in the space.

“When we did kick it to him, even if he didn’t mark it he’d always bring it to ground. Then when the ball was at his feet, we could surge it on into that space behind him and get scoring opportunities.”


As you can see from the above quotes, he often had three or even four players put on him, leaving many other NM forwards unattended. Carey had to make sure that, apart from marking and kicking his own goals, the ball was ending up to advantageous positions for his teammates. And he did this, game after game.

This is how you win premierships. By utilising the talents and capabilities of you star players to the max. All attacking structures of the Kangas were involving Carey in some capacity. The guy was basically half a team by himself. Now, you are a Geelong supporter, can you tell us, other than goals and spectacular marks, what else was Ablett contributing to the Cats? Has he ever flown up to take a mark thinking, ok say I don’t grab it, what else can I do to help the team? How about directing the ball towards my small forwards etc? Nope. Not his thing. Spectacle vs substance. No premierships for him. Flags require substance.

Carey the better player by quite a lot...

 

[Jhye Clark 13]

Can someone can show me someone that could do something Ablett couldn't?

 

[Vdubs]

Because without Carey North Melbourne weren’t premiership material. They may have made quite a few prelims or grannies but they would have won zero flags. They would have been a very similar outfit to Geelong in Ablett’s era. Close, but no cigar.

Here is an article which is explains Carey importance, by analysing Pagan’s paddock, which of course was Carey’s paddock:

The evolution of Pagan’s Paddock

Ask the majority of North Melbourne fans who ‘Pagan’s Paddock’ was built for, and the answer you’ll receive is ‘Wayne Carey’.

www.nmfc.com.au

Quotes:

“As Darren Crocker picks up the story, he reflects on 1996 after a belting at the hands of Sydney in Round 11.

“It was the first time we’d ever encountered a team really dropping numbers back against us and basically surrounding Wayne Carey,” Crocker explained.”

“Basically what the opposition and Rodney Eade (Sydney coach) were doing, they were using Carey as a reference point. Thinking we’d always go forward and kick it to him, in that particular game they played with eight defenders.”

“Nevertheless, North retreated to the training track and worked on ways to combat the Swans’ extra defenders.

“So from that time on, we started to play around with bringing everyone up in front of Duck so he was basically the last forward, closest to the goal,” Crocker explained.”

“Even if he was surrounded by numbers, instead of kicking it to him we’d kick it to the space over the back of him. That would then give the likes of Brett Allison, Peter Bell, Robert Scott, Glenn Freeborn, really quick types running onto the ball in the space.

“When we did kick it to him, even if he didn’t mark it he’d always bring it to ground. Then when the ball was at his feet, we could surge it on into that space behind him and get scoring opportunities.”


As you can see from the above quotes, he often had three or even four players put on him, leaving many other NM forwards unattended. Carey had to make sure that, apart from marking and kicking his own goals, the ball was ending up to advantageous positions for his teammates. And he did this, game after game.

This is how you win premierships. By utilising the talents and capabilities of you star players to the max. All attacking structures of the Kangas were involving Carey in some capacity. The guy was basically half a team by himself. Now, you are a Geelong supporter, can you tell us, other than goals and spectacular marks, what else was Ablett contributing to the Cats? Has he ever flown up to take a mark thinking, ok say I don’t grab it, what else can I do to help the team? How about directing the ball towards my small forwards etc? Nope. Not his thing. Spectacle vs substance. No premierships for him. Flags require substance.

Carey the better player by quite a lot...

To be noted that Ablett kicked about 120 career goals against your hapless team, no wonder you're contributing that . That's about 6 goals every time he played Richmond. Yep, he'd be hated if you weren't mesmerised by his ridiculous skill set. His 89 contribution nearly single handedly got us there against a simply superior and brilliant team, and he got us into the GF as well. Carey was never BOG or that influential in NM's 2 flags that he played in.