Carey or Ablett

[Tiger Ultra]

Ablett's efforts to drag his team over the line in those '92, '94 & '95 GF cliffhangers tip the scales in his favour. Ablett in GF's was a sight to behold, you youngsters that weren't around to witness his herculean efforts in the deciders of '92, '94 & '95 would do well to check 'em out if you want to see the real Gary Ablett and not just some little highlights during the H&A season and a flash in the pan performance in '89 where some Hawthorn players were lucky to escape with their lives. Like in the '95 GF, I remember Hocking telling Ablett to do something and his efforts went through the roof, he chased, and chased, and kept chasing like no one I seen before him, didn't get a goal, but I gave him an A+ for effort! It wasn't Ablett's fault that the rest of his team was sh*t. ... Sometimes a one man team can win a flag, if that one man cometh when the hour cometh, but that's not the norm in GF's where it's usually the better teams competing, but that's not to say that it hasn't happened, because it has, fortunately not with Ablett.

He did for a period, and I saw some of the best goals kicked by him from the centre and wing. From his first game with Geelong in 1984 where he played wing and kicked 3 goals, to a game in 1986 v Richmond where things were tight and Mick Turner suggested Ablett do something. So he took the ball out of the middle, bounced once and bombed a 65 metre goal

So when Richmond was a "rabble" in '86 Mick Turner told Ablett to do something in a tight game against a "rabble" and he did, how good is that? What a player, always answered the call against a "rabble," in fact was there ever a time he didn't answer the call against a "rabble"? Add that to his '92, '94 & '95 GF efforts and we're talking about one of the all time greats! ..... If you really think about his '92, '94 & '95 GF efforts they were eerily similar to his efforts in another important time in his life where he was called upon and delivered like only Ablett can in the important moments.

 

[Vdubs]

Really? We are talking about footy, a sport with 22-23 players in each team. The player who makes the bigger contribution to his team’s fortunes and success is the better player. Carey was a team player and helped North Melbourne achieve the only real objective that footy clubs have. Twice. Carey’s contribution as a forward, both as goal scoring and goal-creating for his teammates, was much higher than whatever Abeltt was bringing to the table with his much more one-dimensional skill set. You play as an individual, you will only win individual accolades. And pretty much nothing else...

Read the OP. Ablett was not one- dimensional- MOTY, GOTY, Bump of the year

 

[Bunk Moreland]

Ablett also had 5 touches that day, not sure why you are pulling out single games or Grand Finals from 1989 when Carey was 17 years old.

Odd to pull out a game where Carey kicked 6.4 and dominated while Ablett barely touched the ball at the other end to prove Ablett was a better player.

If you read the thread, there are constant arguments that Carey is better because he picked up and carried his team to premierships while Ablett was just a brilliant individual.

Like many things in footy, it’s a myth that doesn’t stand up to the slightest scratching of the surface.

Ablett and Geelong played in four GFs, in all four of them they ran into super powerful teams that were some of the best of recent decades. That’s why the lack of flags - it’s nothing to do with Ablett.

Carey and North played in three GFs and their two wins were against inferior opposition to what Geelong faced. Give Ablett and Geelong those opponents and they win flags too.

When the two actually met - such as the 94 games I referenced, including the prelim - it was Carey who was the brilliant individual who couldn’t get his team over the line. The complete opposite of what many here claim.

 

[Cursed Cat]

Tell us what position Ablett played in 1989 when he kicked 14 goals v Tigers...
Who does that?
Only GAS. Wing.
He was devastatingly, brutally brilliant.
And when he went fulltime FF, 93, 94, 95- 120 goals each year.
He was ridiculously superior to any player that has ever played.

For accuracy - He kicked 9 from the wing and then went forward and kicked another 5.

An incredible effort.

Carey for me, although Ablett was more individually brilliant.

This is a myth. I’ve heard Malcolm Blight interviewed about this. He said he started wing/HF and kicked a few early, so when Blight realised he was ‘hot’ he moved him permanently forward.

14-goals is freakish from anywhere, but whilst it makes for great folklore, only a few were from wing.



Sent from my iPhone using BigFooty.com

Footage showed up on Youtube 5ish years ago (no sound) - make your own minds up. Posted by a Tigers fan!

A few Richmond supporters in the Youtube comments confirming Ablett played on a wing that day, too (as the footage shows).

Nice little specky at CHB from Ablett to start the game off, too.

Can see Ablett lining up on a wing mid-way through the 3rd quarter, so it's not as though he spent half the game in the F50

 

[Tiger Ultra]

is that you Falcon?

Is that you Gary Snr?

 

[Tiger Ultra]

Footage showed up on Youtube 5ish years ago (no sound) - make your own minds up. Posted by a Tigers fan!

A few Richmond supporters in the Youtube comments confirming Ablett played on a wing that day, too (as the footage shows).

Nice little specky at CHB from Ablett to start the game off, too.

I was at that game, Gary played FF against that team Geelong supporters have themselves called a "rabble." Justin Pickering played a nice little game for us. I remember Gary always being ready to feast on a "rabble." His best footy was against "rabbles" in my opinion.

 

[Wonderdog]

When this topic us is brought up I always refer to Robert Scott as he is one of the few that played with both of them. He was probably being diplomatic but stated that Ablett’s best was the best he ever saw but week in week out Carey was the better player.

 

[Cursed Cat]

When this topic us is brought up I always refer to Robert Scott as he is one of the few that played with both of them. He was probably being diplomatic but stated that Ablett’s best was the best he ever saw but week in week out Carey was the better player.

there were quite a few players traded between North and Geelong in that era, would be interesting to hear what the others thought, too.

 

[Vdubs]

there were quite a few players traded between North and Geelong in that era, would be interesting to hear what the others thought, too.

Diesel Williams , not ever at NM, said Ablett snr is by far the best player he's ever seen, and that he wasn't fit to tie his bootlaces!!. Lavish praise from a superstar himself.

 

[joey_jo_jo]

Too young to remember prime ablett so cant make a call.
But carey is easily the best player Ive seen (and I hate the prick). Such a dominant and arrogant presence.

Will always remember the H&A game in 1999 where him and lloyd put on a show.

 

[jc12]

. . . . awaiting Richmond trolls

View attachment 1612272

salt is still there even in a non richmond thread LOL

 

[My Tilly]

Too young to remember prime ablett so cant make a call.
But carey is easily the best player Ive seen (and I hate the prick). Such a dominant and arrogant presence.

Will always remember the H&A game in 1999 where him and lloyd put on a show.

One of the great performances by two individuals superstars we will ever see.

I reckon they tried upto three different defenders on Carey but it did very little to help.
And the left foot boundary line goal has only been replicated on a dozen occassions. Carey was freakish in his own right.

 

[Optimistic Dog]

Not sure who was best Ablett probably more spectacular. Also not sure who is the most ordinary bloke off the field. Both a history drugs and violence, could be Ablett because a young girl died in his presence as result of a drug overdose but Carey as a long history of drug and dog acts.

 

[Cursed Cat]

Diesel Williams , not ever at NM, said Ablett snr is by far the best player he's ever seen, and that he wasn't fit to tie his bootlaces!!. Lavish praise from a superstar himself.

I've heard Diesel talk about Ablett too, very effusive, it sounds as though most players who got to observe him up close (e.g. at training etc) knew they were in the presence of a special athlete/footballer.

Dermott Brereton another who speaks of Ablett in awed tones; played together in the reserves at Hawthorn.

 

[Theicon]

If you read the thread, there are constant arguments that Carey is better because he picked up and carried his team to premierships while Ablett was just a brilliant individual.

Like many things in footy, it’s a myth that doesn’t stand up to the slightest scratching of the surface.

Ablett and Geelong played in four GFs, in all four of them they ran into super powerful teams that were some of the best of recent decades. That’s why the lack of flags - it’s nothing to do with Ablett.

Carey and North played in three GFs and their two wins were against inferior opposition to what Geelong faced. Give Ablett and Geelong those opponents and they win flags too.

When the two actually met - such as the 94 games I referenced, including the prelim - it was Carey who was the brilliant individual who couldn’t get his team over the line. The complete opposite of what many here claim.

It's not about what happened on GF day. Other than Ablett's 89 GF neither him nor Carey can claim GOAT status based on their GF performances.

The difference between them is what they did their entire careers and Carey more so than Ablett took his side to success throughout the 90s.

If you look at their finals performances Carey was arguably the best player of the 94, 96 and 99 finals series.

Ablett had a stellar 89 Finals and then was pretty good in 92 and then nothing for the rest of his finals career. In fact Carey's 97 finals performance was on par if not better than Abletts 2nd best finals series in 92.
Carey 18 disp 3.66 goals 7 marks, Ablett in 92 AVG 15.5 D 4 goals 5 marks.

You've singled out one of the very few games were Carey dominated and North lost, I reckon the 31 to 13 free kick count had something to do with the end result, which robbed us of a Carey v Jakovich GF, but it doesn't matter in the end the game was won by Geelong.

 

[My Tilly]

It's not about what happened on GF day. Other than Ablett's 89 GF neither him nor Carey can claim GOAT status based on their GF performances.

The difference between them is what they did their entire careers and Carey more so than Ablett took his side to success throughout the 90s.

If you look at their finals performances Carey was arguably the best player of the 94, 96 and 99 finals series.

Ablett had a stellar 89 Finals and then was pretty good in 92 and then nothing for the rest of his finals career. In fact Carey's 97 finals performance was on par if not better than Abletts 2nd best finals series in 92.
Carey 18 disp 3.66 goals 7 marks, Ablett in 92 AVG 15.5 D 4 goals 5 marks.

You've singled out one of the very few games were Carey dominated and North lost, I reckon the 31 to 13 free kick count had something to do with the end result, which robbed us of a Carey v Jakovich GF, but it doesn't matter in the end the game was won by Geelong.

Not sure you can say he did nothing after 1992.
He was brilliant in a couple of finals of 94 and again in 95 against Richmond.

One thing you need to take into account is the age differential between both players when they were appearing in finals.
Carey was right in his prime years as a footballer. Ablett was in his 30's and while still a better athlete than most, hardly the player he was in the mid to late 80's.

Look at Carey's performances when he was in his early 30's. Not quite anything like he was in 96-00.

 

[Sttew]

I've heard Diesel talk about Ablett too, very effusive, it sounds as though most players who got to observe him up close (e.g. at training etc) knew they were in the presence of a special athlete/footballer.

Dermott Brereton another who speaks of Ablett in awed tones; played together in the reserves at Hawthorn.

Watching the video about the 14 goals kicked against Richmond, Steve Hocking said it was common for he and his opponent, whoever that might have been, to applaud things Ablett did at the other end of the ground, and it wasn’t just during the Cats v Tigers game.

I don’t care what do-gooders say about Ablett now; he was a once in a generation player and I saw him play!

 

[Rich01]

Watching the video about the 14 goals kicked against Richmond, Steve Hocking said it was common for he and his opponent, whoever that might have been, to applaud things Ablett did at the other end of the ground, and it wasn’t just during the Cats v Tigers game.

I don’t care what do-gooders say about Ablett now; he was a once in a generation player and I saw him play!

Yep on the field he was a legend.
Off the field, quite a deplorable human.

Spose that’s the nature of AFL and its history. People’s characters are defined by the way they entertain rather than act as people, with the latter flaws erased by the glory of the former.
True for Carey as well.

Guys like Williams, Matthews, Whitten and Dyer at least kept their violence on the field.

And the less said about Cable the better, I spose.

 

[Munga]

Save it for the Plugger vs Dunstall thread!

Lockett vs anyone, it's Lockett.

But on topic, I'm leaning towards Ablett.

 

[sleep]

Carey looked like the best player in the league.

Snr looked like he should have played in another league.

Thats the difference.

 

[Vdubs]

Yep on the field he was a legend.
Off the field, quite a deplorable human.

Spose that’s the nature of AFL and its history. People’s characters are defined by the way they entertain rather than act as people, with the latter flaws erased by the glory of the former.
True for Carey as well.

Guys like Williams, Matthews, Whitten and Dyer at least kept their violence on the field.

And the less said about Cable the better, I spose.

You may say he was deplorable, like Carey, but no longer- he has been healed

Lockett vs anyone, it's Lockett.

But on topic, I'm leaning towards Ablett.

Plugger a brilliant FF, but as a total footballer, Ablett wins hands down. Look at 93, 94, 95- Ablett as a dedicated FF, over 120 goals each season, ahead of Plugger; imagine if he's played there all his career

 

[Vdubs]

Does anyone recall the WCE v Cats, 1992, 12 April? in WA
Rd 4, Cats win, Ablett HBF, 5 goals, 36 possessions.
Phenomenal.

 

[Rich01]

was deplorable, like Carey, but no longer- he has been healed

He still carries those demons, and so he should.
But I’ll say again, if you seperate him as a human vs an entertainer, the results are quite different. Seems you value the latter higher which is your prerogative.

On a seperate note his crazy rants about the spread of coronavirus being led by the Illuminati for Lucifer to take control of the world sounded like someone with some serious issues. Hopefully people now are smart enough not to blindly follow the ravings of a bloke just because he footballed good. 20 odd years ago it didn’t end so well.

 

[sleep]

5 (1st 2 x last 3) out of the 15 years Duck played he was a underwhelming footballer.

Snr was a freak from day 1 to the end.

 

[Munga]

Plugger a brilliant FF, but as a total footballer, Ablett wins hands down. Look at 93, 94, 95- Ablett as a dedicated FF, over 120 goals each season, ahead of Plugger; imagine if he's played there all his career

Lockett was more than an incredible footballer. Left or right foot. Unbeatable one on one. Unbeatable on the lead. Incredible footy IQ. Could kick snaps from 50m out on the boundary, snaps! etc. etc. Could've played anywhere, just happened to be the greatest forward of all time; and just like on the field, that won't be beaten. Easily puts him in line for the greatest player of all time.

Lockett was beating gun defenders 2 on 1 and kicking bags of 5 goals when he was 17 years old! Kicked 77.44 in just his second season at 18! Playing for Victoria at 19! 352 goals 164 behinds @ 68.2%, Best and Fairest, VFLPA MVP, Coleman medal, and the only full forward ever to win a Brownlow medal... all of it by 21 years old! And we all know how it ended, the greatest.

Didn't mean to highjack the thread, it was a bit of a fun comment. But if we're getting serious then the big guns come out. Ablett was amazing though.