Carey to Essendon?

[Royal Blue And White]

Originally posted by DarkRider


I will have a piece of any sucker..er customer that comes along looking for that bet too windyhill.
I can't believe how business naive some of these people are.

I can just see North telling the AFL;
"Sorry, we needed $750,000 of your $3M donation so we could pay Wayne Carey and make a point about how strong we were in our negotiations with Adelaide. What's that you say ? Did we get a player for him ?
No, he went into the draft and we got stuff-all, but gee we made our point !"

All of you really think no other clubs are approaching North about Carey other than Adelaide (or Essendon)......???...... They all are...I think you can guarantee that.......North will get quite a lot in this trade.....The whole campaign by Adelaide where Carey 'signed the contract' and started looking for houses was a front to try and make other clubs think they didnt have a chance......There are 14 other opposition clubs out there that know better.......

 

[k.t.frog]

Originally posted by Zombie

The system is set up so that players can't just choose what club they are going to go to.

good to see neativity is alive & well on bt.

anyways, whats to stop the dons getting the best of both worlds, that being carey & everitt? 2/3 players for carey & another couple for spider, clean the decks nicely & everyones happy.

 

[ok.crows]

Originally posted by Royal Blue And White


All of you really think no other clubs are approaching North about Carey other than Adelaide (or Essendon)......???...... They all are...I think you can guarantee that.......North will get quite a lot in this trade.....The whole campaign by Adelaide where Carey 'signed the contract' and started looking for houses was a front to try and make other clubs think they didnt have a chance......There are 14 other opposition clubs out there that know better.......

Adelaide doesn't have a contract with Carey. It has his signature on what is known as a "Memorandum of Understanding".

If you can follow for just one second here, that means there is an understanding between Carey and Adelaide (yes, both of them) that Carey wants to play for Adelaide.

Zombie, I think you might find that North would not have Carey playing for them in 2002 (because of the disruption it would cause the team), rather than Carey walking out on his contract. That indeed does leave North on the wrong side of the situation with respect to $$$ owed to Carey.

Finally, why does everyone seem to be deluded about Carey's worth in trade? At the end of 2000 Adelaide were in a very similar position with Rehn as North are now with Carey. In 2000 Hawks got Rehn in a trade with Adelaide for a first round draft pick.

The deal with North is very similar in nature to the Rehn trade in 2000. That means the Carey trade in 2002 is probably worth the same ... a first round draft pick. No more. Adelaide know it, and North know it. An appropriate deal will be struck. Where is the problem here?

 

[DaveW]

Originally posted by Zombie

Not that it would happen because Carey isn't entitled to that money, he will go to which ever club North decides or he will go in the draft (like I said, not going to happen), Carey has no choice in which club he goes to, neither does Headland, Chick or any other player. The system is set up so that players can't just choose what club they are going to go to.

Hmmm...

So what was Carey's weeks and weeks of shopping around all about then? You remember...

Carey the Swan, Carey the Hawk, Carey the Magpie, etc, etc, etc... until eventually deciding on Carey the Crow.

Was that all just a big waste of everybody's time?

 

[hamstringinjury]

Adelaide supporters get real, you will need to give up something good for Carey. Kangaroos can trade Carey to any team. You think money is a factor, well, kangaroos has said many times that money is not a factor.

 

[ok.crows]

Originally posted by hamstringinjury
Adelaide supporters get real, you will need to give up something good for Carey. Kangaroos can trade Carey to any team. You think money is a factor, well, kangaroos has said many times that money is not a factor.

Agreed that money is not the factor, but do you realise that Kangaroos cannot trade Carey to a team if Carey does not agree?

Also, I'd really like to hear from a North fan how they figure that the Carey trade is worth any more to North than the Rehn trade was worth to Adelaide two years ago?

Adelaide traded Rehn to Hawks for a first round draft pick. That is about what the Carey trade is worth, as it seems a very similar set of circumstances.

 

[hamstringinjury]

Originally posted by ok.crows


Agreed that money is not the factor, but do you realise that Kangaroos cannot trade Carey to a team if Carey does not agree?

Also, I'd really like to hear from a North fan how they figure that the Carey trade is worth any more to North than the Rehn trade was worth to Adelaide two years ago?

Adelaide traded Rehn to Hawks for a first round draft pick. That is about what the Carey trade is worth, as it seems a very similar set of circumstances.

How many teams were interested in Rehn at that time? Rehn is a very good player, but I am sure even for one eyed crow supporters, you can't put Rehn and Carey in the same class.

With the trade part, I thought Kangaroos can trade Carey to any team. What happen if Kangaroos trade with Essendon and Carey says he wants to go to Adelaide, what will happen? I don't really know much about it I must say.

 

[King Crow]

You cant just trade someone to a club without their consent. A good example is Saverio Rocca to Adelaide I think 2 seasons ago... he wouldnt agree to it, so the trade was called off. I think Shane Ellen refused to goto Collingwood in 99'

Zombie, another pathetic attempt to show your closet love for the crows.

 

[Rooboy 96]

Originally posted by hamstringinjury


How many teams were interested in Rehn at that time? Rehn is a very good player, but I am sure even for one eyed crow supporters, you can't put Rehn and Carey in the same class.

With the trade part, I thought Kangaroos can trade Carey to any team. What happen if Kangaroos trade with Essendon and Carey says he wants to go to Adelaide, what will happen? I don't really know much about it I must say.

are you really thinking Rehn is/was half the footballer Carey is/was... there is the difference... oh and no-one else wanted Rehn... supply and demand...

 

[Shinboners]

Originally posted by ok.crows


Two years ago, Adelaide were in a very similar position with Rehn. An older player, yet a very good key-position player, who no longer wanted to play for Adelaide. Adelaide traded Rehn for a first-round draft pick. Likewise that is all North will get for Carey IMO, as the circumstances here are very similar indeed.

The key difference is that there was a greater risk of Rehn breaking down than Carey. Don't forget, Rehn had two knee reconstuctions and no-one really knew if he'd get through one, two, or three seasons. Whilst Carey has had injuries over the past few seasons, they have been of the soft tissue variety and they can be managed. The other key is that Carey has had a full year of rest for his body to recover.

I thought the Crows did very well to get a first round draft pick for Rehn, and that would be the minimum for Carey. However, I would think that the Roos should be able to snaffle an extra draft pick and/or a young player as well.

 

[ok.crows]

Originally posted by hamstringinjury


How many teams were interested in Rehn at that time? Rehn is a very good player, but I am sure even for one eyed crow supporters, you can't put Rehn and Carey in the same class.

With the trade part, I thought Kangaroos can trade Carey to any team. What happen if Kangaroos trade with Essendon and Carey says he wants to go to Adelaide, what will happen? I don't really know much about it I must say.

At the point at which they were involved in a trade, which in both cases is/was with optimistically two years left and coming off injury, and with Carey in addittion having had a year off football, it seems to me yes you can compare Carey trade with Rehn. Very much so.

BTW, Rehn was arguably as influential a player as Carey. You have a point if you are comparing these players at their peak, but that is not when these trades are occurring.

Carey now is not the same player in terms of influence as the one who earned the reputation as being the "King".

 

[ok.crows]

Originally posted by Shinboners


The key difference is that there was a greater risk of Rehn breaking down than Carey. Don't forget, Rehn had two knee reconstuctions and no-one really knew if he'd get through one, two, or three seasons. Whilst Carey has had injuries over the past few seasons, they have been of the soft tissue variety and they can be managed. The other key is that Carey has had a full year of rest for his body to recover.

I thought the Crows did very well to get a first round draft pick for Rehn, and that would be the minimum for Carey. However, I would think that the Roos should be able to snaffle an extra draft pick and/or a young player as well.

Actually, that is part of the point. Rehn had just come off a year of playing ... he had got through the injury. Carey has had a year layoff, his playing condition is more of an unknown.

 

[Shinboners]

Originally posted by ok.crows


Actually, that is part of the point. Rehn had just come off a year of playing ... he had got through the injury. Carey has had a year layoff, his playing condition is more of an unknown.

Carey has had a year layoff from soft tissue injuries, not something more major like a knee reconstruction. He seems to have kept himself fit and the only question mark is his match fitness - summer training and a few pre-season games should ease him into that. I think that Carey after a seasons rest from no major injuries is a lesser risk that Rehn (with a history of knee injuries) coming off a year of footy.

If memory serves me correctly, the Crows were willing to offer Carey a three year deal. It seems to me that by doing that, they're acknowledging that his injuries can be managed at that they'll get some good footy out of him.

 

[Grendel]

Hawthorn made a HUGE mistake in recruiting Rehn too *and 'paid' to much to boot*. Add in that little factor when weighing up what the Crows should be willing to 'pay' for Carey.

Returns to be weighed against possible loss of whatever your going to be giving up to secure his services. The Roos have to look realistically at that side of it as well.

Yea, he was great and might still be very very good... but for how long? Two seasons return on any player is not worth a first round (imo) draft choice that could perhaps play for upwards of a dozen years.

 

[Rooboy 96]

Originally posted by Grendel
but for how long? Two seasons return on any player is not worth a first round (imo) draft choice that could perhaps play for upwards of a dozen years.

so are two flags worth a first round pick??? as adding a forward of Carey's class to Adelaide's midfield... very interesting...

 

[peruka]

What two flags?? He hasnt even put a jumper on yet the crows are gauranteed two flags? You are kidding me!

 

[Tigerbob]

North wont get more than a first round pick, and if a three way deal is made maybe a 3rd rnd pick and/or player, thats it, not two first round picks, no way on earth.

The way i understand it is that Carey has seeked the Crows and because of this has let the Roos off about $500,000 they owe him. If the Roos dont comply he will sue to get that $500,000 which North do not have! Then go into the draft, and with every club knowing he wont play for them Adelaide will still be his home, then the Kangas get jibed $500,000 and no compensation for the loss of Carey...........but its the principle of the thing, right

 

[moomba]

Originally posted by ok.crows
Also, I'd really like to hear from a North fan how they figure that the Carey trade is worth any more to North than the Rehn trade was worth to Adelaide two years ago?

Carey is one of the greats of recent times. Rehn could have been but his dodgy knees put paid to that. If you saw Carey at the start of this season you would have seen a player that (if he remained injury free) could do most if not all of the things he could do in his prime. He was even marking over his head which he hadn't done for the past two years of his career. Rehn on the other hand, even if he remained injury free, was never going to hit the heights of the mid to late 90's.

Also, as discussed on the North board the depth of the draft this year is expected to be the worst for a number of years. Therefore the number 14 pick this year doesn't compare to the number 14 of 2000.

Moomba

 

[moomba]

Originally posted by Grendel
Two seasons return on any player is not worth a first round (imo) draft choice that could perhaps play for upwards of a dozen years.

With the depth in the draft being what it is supposed to be this year I am not sure that anything over a 4th or 5th pick is going to be the godsend that it was last year. I read a while back that scouts believe that only 3 or 4 players out of this list compare to the top 20 or so from last year. Number 14 doesn't look that good now, and I would certainly have no problems with North giving up the pick and letting Carey go into the draft for no return.

Moomba

 

[moomba]

Originally posted by Tigerbob
The way i understand it is that Carey has seeked the Crows and because of this has let the Roos off about $500,000 they owe him. If the Roos dont comply he will sue to get that $500,000 which North do not have! Then go into the draft, and with every club knowing he wont play for them Adelaide will still be his home, then the Kangas get jibed $500,000 and no compensation for the loss of Carey...........but its the principle of the thing, right

Carey won't want to go into the draft. North won't want to have to put him in the draft. I am sure a deal will be done that is satisfactory to both clubs.

Carey is entitled to 5/12ths of his salary from last season because he was with the club for 5/12ths of the accounting period. Unless he was on $1.2 million salary in his last year the money owed is much less than $500,000.

Any club with room in the salary cap (except North) will pick him up regardless of where he wants to pay. Adelaide don't have a hope in hell of getting him through the draft, and they won't want to go into February with $500,000 space in their salary cap on the off chance that he is still available when their pick comes up.

Moomba

 

[ok.crows]

Originally posted by moomba


Carey is entitled to 5/12ths of his salary from last season because he was with the club for 5/12ths of the accounting period. Unless he was on $1.2 million salary in his last year the money owed is much less than $500,000.

I can't see how on the one hand North can claim that Carey was "with the club" for only 5/12ths of the trading period and on the other hand also expect a trade for Carey in order to release him "from the club" now.

Is it just me, or does it seem to others as well that there is a startling inconsistency here.

PS: I have no idea what the situation at Crows regarding what is owed to Angwin is (and that seems to be a similar case), so I don't know what is correct here. It just seems very odd is my comment.

 

[Zombie]

Originally posted by Tigerbob
The way i understand it is that Carey has seeked the Crows and because of this has let the Roos off about $500,000 they owe him. If the Roos dont comply he will sue to get that $500,000 which North do not have! Then go into the draft, and with every club knowing he wont play for them Adelaide will still be his home, then the Kangas get jibed $500,000 and no compensation for the loss of Carey...........but its the principle of the thing, right

If you think that then you are stupid, if he went into the draft he would be playing for Carlton next year. A choice between playing on and re-establishing himself as one of the greats or living the rest of his life out as that guy who slept with his best mates wife, not a hard choice for Carey to make.

He will go to which ever side makes the Kangaroos a better offer, plain and simple.

 

[moomba]

Originally posted by ok.crows
I can't see how on the one hand North can claim that Carey was "with the club" for only 5/12ths of the trading period and on the other hand also expect a trade for Carey in order to release him "from the club" now.

Is it just me, or does it seem to others as well that there is a startling inconsistency here.

He was on the list for the whole year, he was only prepared to fulfil the duties of his position for 5/12ths of it.

As for Angwin my guess is that the Crows haven't paid him for however long he has been away from the club, but as he has breached the contract, not the club, they hold the cards and can trade him as they see fit.

Moomba

 

[Mong]

Here's my take on the situation.

The Kangaroos and Crows will come to an agreement. They are sure to be having discussions already, and trade week is still some weeks off. Both teams know who they are trading with and what the main part of the trade involves. Both teams will work hard to come to a resolution and that is half the battle won. It may take a bit of time and negotiations but neither team will be unreasonable and it's just a matter of time before both parties come to an agreement whereby the trade is fair and reasonable to both teams. Carey is a legend at the NM club and they will consider this by granting him his wish to go to the Crows as long as they are adequately compensated. And the Crows will adequatley compensate them. They made the decision to do that the moment they confirmed to Carey that they wanted him. They knew then that it would take a reasonable deal to the Roos for that to happen.


As for the issue about Rehn, I agree with what someone said in that the Crows did very well out of the Rehn deal because there is no way he was worth what Hawthorn gave for him. But Carey is worth a lot more than Rehn because there were question marks about Rehn injury history and the length of his remaining career. Carey is a much surer bet and really has little risk associated with him from an ability/fitness point of view.


****

 

[ok.crows]

Originally posted by moomba


He was on the list for the whole year, he was only prepared to fulfil the duties of his position for 5/12ths of it.

As for Angwin my guess is that the Crows haven't paid him for however long he has been away from the club, but as he has breached the contract, not the club, they hold the cards and can trade him as they see fit.

Moomba

The situation with Angwin is perhaps a little more clear cut - it was plain that Angwin walked out despite the Crows asking him many times to stay on.

With Carey, it seemed at the time that Carey would have played for Kangaroos this year (or would have like to have played) but Kangaroos would not play him. Rather than Carey walking out, it was made clear to Carey that playing for Kangaroos was not a viable option for him.

That is what it seemed like from an outsider POV anyway.

Who owes whom what amount, and exactly who breached contract, is quite debatable here one would have thought.