Carlton’s soul exorcised, I am disappointed

[H2F]

It's one of the great BF posts.

Absolutely ... Shows the character and vision of Thrawny.

Pity Kernahan and co seem to lack his values.

 

[PP34]

Just realised the OP is from 2007. Holy shit.

Great job Carlton

 

[Cudi_420]

Carlton was very disappointing today tbh. I actually think they were lucky the margin wasn't greater. If they were playing Hawthorn it would have easily been another 80+ point loss.

 

[forwardflanker]

Essendon were punished worse than you.

The main reason Carlton is in this predicament is a deluded sense of entitlement.

I never rated Ratten as a coach, but Sticks' inability to see that losing to the Gold Coast isn't the worst thing in the world was a turning point. As was hiring someone who only decided to come back because he was bitter.

Losing to the Gold Coast was pretty much the worst thing ever at that stage (although losing to Melbourne is worse imo)

 

[Tulip]

Because unless the AFL is in the business of destroying clubs, it is in their best interests to ensure clubs can survive. Imagine if something happened to North or another poorer club and they did everything in their power to ruin them?

They did, North showed some fibre and resisted it. Look at them now.

You still blame the AFL for this, it's ridiculous.

Your attitude is similar to what gets Carlton into these messes. Carlton cheated, Carlton got punished accordingly.

Look at yourself!

 

[PP34]

They did, North showed some fibre and resisted it. Look at them now.

You still blame the AFL for this, it's ridiculous.

Your attitude is similar to what gets Carlton into these messes. Carlton cheated, Carlton got punished accordingly.

Look at yourself!

It's really not. I said they're the reason this whole mess started. Now it's simply what Ratten and the club did from 2009-2012 that is costing us.

 

[Tulip]

It's really not. I said they're the reason this whole mess started. Now it's simply what Ratten and the club did from 2009-2012 that is costing us.

The reason this mess started was Carlton cheating the salary cap. Made worse by the fact that they were paying it to 36 year olds. The next reason was the fact that Carlton valued #1 picks too highly. You picked Murphy - gun, not a captain. Gibbs - squib. Kreuzer - Unfit and too nice when he plays. Imagine if you'd just given West Coast what they wanted and thrown them picks 1 and 18 for Judd. No Kreuzer, but you have Masten and an elite KPF in Kennedy.

 

[gbatman]

You're only as good as the players you have to your disposal and our players are no good. No midfield.

 

[PP34]

The reason this mess started was Carlton cheating the salary cap. Made worse by the fact that they were paying it to 36 year olds. The next reason was the fact that Carlton valued #1 picks too highly. You picked Murphy - gun, not a captain. Gibbs - squib. Kreuzer - Unfit and too nice when he plays. Imagine if you'd just given West Coast what they wanted and thrown them picks 1 and 18 for Judd. No Kreuzer, but you have Masten and an elite KPF in Kennedy.

Gibbs has been a good player for us, don't listen to the Carlton supporters who look to Gibbs to blame whenever something happens. Hasn't been a failure and is still young, but will probably reach his potential elsewhere, sadly.

Kreuzer is a good player when fit, and being too nice is rubbish. He's just another quite Carlton player, we have too many of them, but he isn't a problem when he plays. Goes much harder than the majority of the list.

Masten and Kennedy wouldn't change things. That's two players. Our problems stretch beyond that.

 

[Tulip]

Gibbs has been a good player for us, don't listen to the Carlton supporters who look to Gibbs to blame whenever something happens. Hasn't been a failure and is still young, but will probably reach his potential elsewhere, sadly.

Kreuzer is a good player when fit, and being too nice is rubbish. He's just another quite Carlton player, we have too many of them, but he isn't a problem when he plays. Goes much harder than the majority of the list.

Masten and Kennedy wouldn't change things. That's two players. Our problems stretch beyond that.

Gibbs and Watts are the same player, essentially. Better players lower in the draft, both very talented, both play well and get lambasted, both lack application. I don't listen to others when I can help it, I form my own opinion. The difference between our clubs again is that Roos is treating Watts as the cherry, not the cake. Carlton still see Gibbs as a huge part of their future and remain vocal about that.

Kreuzer is pretty good, yeah. Not a top 10 ruckman, but he is too nice. I like his work rate, but he has no mongrel. No arrogance, which isn't befitting of a good Carlton player.

Kennedy would change a heap, and you know it. He could make the difference.

 

[PP34]

Gibbs and Watts are the same player, essentially. Better players lower in the draft, both very talented, both play well and get lambasted, both lack application. I don't listen to others when I can help it, I form my own opinion. The difference between our clubs again is that Roos is treating Watts as the cherry, not the cake. Carlton still see Gibbs as a huge part of their future and remain vocal about that.

Kreuzer is pretty good, yeah. Not a top 10 ruckman, but he is too nice. I like his work rate, but he has no mongrel. No arrogance, which isn't befitting of a good Carlton player.

Kennedy would change a heap, and you know it. He could make the difference.

Gibbs is a far more established player than Watts.

And Kennedy is one player. You don't lose by 80 points because of one position issue.

We have a shit midfield, a shit backline and a shit forward line.

 

[Tulip]

Gibbs is a far more established player than Watts.

And Kennedy is one player. You don't lose by 80 points because of one position issue.

We have a shit midfield, a shit backline and a shit forward line.

He's played 7 seasons and 4 of those have been in the finals.

Watts has been at a rabble since day dot.

I agree, though I think the midfield is fine.

 

[Schauermann]

Yesterday there was talk about premierships in the next four years. Today a loss to Melbourne...

 

[PP34]

He's played 7 seasons and 4 of those have been in the finals.

Watts has been at a rabble since day dot.

I agree, though I think the midfield is fine.

Midfield is fine? Definitely not.

Our best midfielder and the one with a real "**** everyone, I'll get the ball" attitude is on the way out. Murphy benefited greatly from Judd's leadership and now he has been thrown into the Judd role and he's not built for that.

Gibbs will be gone so there goes a class ball user. Carrazzo is on the way out, the verdict is out on Thomas and beyod that we've got a bunch of battlers. Our other good mifielder has been thrown back to stop the bleeding (Simpson).

Real worries in the midfield. Too many battlers, not enough class and leg speed. Sounds like a reversal of 2008-2010 when journos questioned our grunt beyond Judd.

 

[kranky al]

A fair section of Carlton supporters deserve to cop a pasting. Carlton's BF is a perfect example of why. So many sycophants who couldnt handle any time someone criticised the club and their drafting. Naturally anyone who questioned it and called it out for what it was got shouted down or banned from the board because they would get accused of being a troll or because the inner circle circle jerk didn't like what they were saying.

Now that minoirty has become the majority with even the sycophants finally realising the average down hill skiing list that had been assembled

This all harks back to the "We're Carlton **** the rest attitude". This resulted in a ****** attitude that we some how would just become good again by virtue of our history.

To all the muppets blaming Malthouse get the roses coloured glasses off. What you see now isn't malthouse team. This is the average list that Ratten helped put together along with all the other clowns like Hughes and Kernahan.

I hope Mick stays because he's the only one who has the balls to stand up to all of these sycophants and make the ahrd call on shit, soft below average players careers at this club.

Unfortunately mick might be right with the recruiting in the past - but the worst thung you could ever do is put him in charge of the future

2 clubs have learned that mistake the hard way - let mick do what he does well.

 

[yodellinhank]

You can smell them coming.

 

[forwardflanker]

Unfortunately mick might be right with the recruiting in the past - but the worst thung you could ever do is put him in charge of the future

2 clubs have learned that mistake the hard way - let mick do what he does well.

I don't really get this. As much as some Pies fans are pissed at MM, it's difficult to argue that his time as Collingwood coach hasn't been a success. Under him we've made finals most seasons, played off in several Grand Finals and won one. And we've done all this with a team that hasn't been regarded as the best in the comp in all of his seasons bar 2011.

 

[MrPresident]

Back in 2007 when this thread was started I bet most Carlton fans would have been happy with 7th, 8th, 5th, 10th and 6th. Until this year they've been a lot better than they used to be.

Now it's time for a rebuild. But not via tanking. You can still lose and be bottom 4 for a while without compromising your soul.

 

[Demonic Ascent]

Carlton are still stuck in the 80's with their mentality and attitude, the game has changed and they have not.

They remind me of Melbourne except we were stuck in the 50's. Both clubs failed to move with the times and still believed they were powerhouses when the competition had moved on. Carlton still act like one of the big clubs but these days they are a middle-tier club.

 

[Demonic Ascent]

By the way people knocking Ratten are clueless. He might not have been the best head coach of all time bit he is unbelievable at the Hawks.

He was great at Melbourne too as midfield coach before getting the main gig at Carlton.

 

[gardiner stand]

Ratten built a list of netballers.Who at Carlton has heart and soul to match their toughness?
Robbo-hard but unskilful and very dumb
Armfield-hard but ordinary
Carrazzo-hard but unskilful
In my opinion the only player on our list that can hold his head up high is Simpson the rest are all expendable.
We now have a stubborn old fool at the helm who is in it for his own ego and the big$$$.
The captain is the worst leader in our history by a stretch and that can't be denied.We put up with weak soulless players like Gibbs and we have the dumbest list in memory.
Can you get any dumber than Robbo Waite Walker Bell McLean Yarran ?? Too many dumb dumbs for one footy team

 

[Lord Nicholson]

Amused at all this "Ratten is crap" or "Ratten was a genius" nonsense.

He might have been neither, you know. He's in that Mark Harvey tier of not being either - he could foster progress and instill some good qualities in his players, but lacked the nous to ever take the team to the next level. His most critical error came in not understanding where they were at the end of 2011 and believing that "Walker scragged in the goalsquare, miss prelim by less than a kick = premiership contender next year" or something to that effect. His dismissal isn't problematic, it's a failure to recognise what was actually needed next, and instead being star-struck and seduced by reputation -- damn the fit. It's a bit like StK appointing Jewell and Jesaulenko.

And I'm sure Ratten is doing fine work at Hawthorn, but it's not as if he's salvaging a floundering operation there.

 

[Hearts to hearts]

ego and the big$$$

That could be on Carlton's crest.

And however dumb some players look, the greatest stupidity is the ego and impatience of the board. Like tanking (which Thrawn covered better than I could), sacking a coach can be a short cut that costs a lot of what got you even close. Losing to Gold Coast sucked for every club that's done it, but every other club has taken it for what it was and learned, not jumped to poor decisions because of wounded egos. Malthouse, like Pagan, was an older coach with a great history, who Carlton got because they could, not because they were still the best or suited what the club needed.

 

[Spitta09]

^On Pagan it seems that history is repeating itself with Malthouse now. Experienced ex premiership coach brought in for a quick fix solution. Problem is both have/had little to work with. Pagan took over a soulless and listless club who had no draft picks yet he was the subject of abuse by carlton supporters.. the admin somehow saw him as the problem as well. Go figure.
It is about time that the admin and club take responsibility for their actions, their poor drafting, quick fix mentality and arrogance in general. Full cleanout required.
The talk of meetings behind malthouse's back already are hilarious.. just a year or so into his contract. It just shows the boys club culture that has been instilled in this club for years.

 

[JeffDunne]

Name any Carlton stuff-up over the past 12 years and it has Kernhan's name written all over it. Recruitment included (either directly or indirectly).

Not only that, he's orchestrated a club power structure during this time that means the club is essentially privately owned. Of course he wouldn't do that unless he had their full support. As Dick Pratt famously said on returning to own the club, "I leave the football decisions up to Sticks".

Boardroom battles are won and lost at Carlton by the size of the cheque you can write. Unfortunately more often than not those people have no idea on how to run a football club.

Jeanne Pratt as vice-president?

If Carlton fans sit back and pray for the next messiah with a chequebook then they deserve everything they get.