Carlton’s soul exorcised, I am disappointed

[gbatman]

I don't know that, I just recall thinking the appointment was a hasty one. It was as though the thought process was, "Ratten's not winning us flags, Malthouse won one at Collingwood, let's appoint him".

Carlton would be in the same situation now regardless of who the coach is, you just can't go years whith out bring any real good young talent.

 

[gbatman]

And more importantly, get the player you need, not the player every says is better.

Yep, on ballers and talls for us. We drafted quite a few flankers and a ruckman with fairly high picks over the years. Our midfield is dangerously weak.

 

[forwardflanker]

I heard on the radio the other day that a lot of recruiters from other clubs were absolutely flabbergasted when they took Lucas ahead of Talia. Putting aside the fact Talia is significantly more talented than Lucas, as a key defender he was also an immediate need for that football club. It is difficult to pin the blame for the current list on MM. Whether he has exacerbated the situation with his delusional list analysis and premiership predictions is another matter. One really has to wonder why, if Carlton new before the start of the season they had a average/poor list, why they decided to overpay for Thomas who is under an injury cloud and likely not to be around for their next tilt.

 

[Koutafidamidis]

Carlton used to be a club that emphasised passion and pride, above all else. Even the odd touch of arrogance was there but it was there for a reason because we used to be respected and feared. Now I see my club in its current state, struggling for the past six years and barely showing a whimper. It hurts my mind. It hurts my soul. What have we become, that even our very own supporters wished for a spoon earlier this week just to get one place higher in the draft, and/or an extra pick? What has made this club so great over the best part of a hundred years is that it had pride, passion and the will to win. Even when the odds were great against us and the wins would do nothing for the seasons in question.

Call me an old school supporter if you will, but I do not believe a PP or any draft pick for that matter is worth destroying this pride for. The general idea of dropping games for one extra teenager who may or may not even turn out a superstar is quite disgusting, and embraces a losing mentality. Such a mentality should not be exposed to the younger playing group because such attitudes destroy confidence, it destroys their own belief that the club can go places with them contributing.

It also destroys cultures.

I admit that the PP will help, to an extent, but there have been many overly optimistic and even ridiculous claims. He will be the best player in the competition, he will be a 200 gamer, he will set us back 5 years if we miss him, he will instantly inspire those around him, he will turn water into wine, etc. But I am being a realist here – well, I think I am… this teenager may have a lot of potential but he has never played at senior level. He will need to be developed properly, in a good environment and nurtured by people who know what they are doing. All in all though, he will be a fresh fish and a nervous one at that, with the pressure of the entire club and supporter base on his shoulders. The bright white hope, at 18 years of age, taking the team and the club off the bottom - what expectation. I feel incredibly sorry for the kid. It is no good introducing kids in a team that thinks losing is OK – what good will that do to his confidence? What chance does he have to develop properly or at a faster rate when his team mates don’t give a damn about the jumper? Any kid will find it very hard to perform if he gets little support and is down on confidence, no matter how talented he is.

Is a single PP worth destroying our soul over? I don’t think it is – in fact, I think we can build a good team and have some success without the PP. Yes it will help, but retaining our pride and missing out won’t ruin our future. After all, it is only one individual. It all comes back to the players and the club having the right attitude – a winning one, like Carlton of old. Only then will we start seeing success if we begin to cut out this rot. I think we have a good young core already, and we can build on that. But some of the attitudes represented on this site disgusts me – one supporter even had a go with me for cheering for a win, and singing the song loudly if we do. So this is what we have become… over one pick? Using the excuse of tanking no doubt, which I think is simply an excuse supporters like to use to justify why their team is so crap. I don’t believe for a nanosecond players want to tank – they want to win. The Essendon game is proof in itself, just look at their genuine reactions at losing. Kouta can have his opinion on losing (seeing his reactions after losing, I don’t think he likes it either), so can Rhys-Jones – but I don’t think such talk would’ve been tolerated 10 years ago. I wonder what other legends like Nicholls, Doull, Southby, etc would think. Would they have supported losing? I’d assume not.

Opposition supporters can talk about us tanking all they want, but I am in the belief that you’re either good enough to win or you’re not. And those of you who think Carlton supporters here have no pride – well, you’re wrong. At least some of us do. If we are in the same position next year, I will be fighting the same fight.

Pride. Passion. Never let that go.

wow, amazing

very well put

 

[jmac70]

wow, amazing

very well put

Isn't it great that a post written 7 years ago is still relevant today?

 

[Koutafidamidis]

he was right

 

[jmac70]

he was right

And he still is. Gold.

 

[Tulip]

I heard on the radio the other day that a lot of recruiters from other clubs were absolutely flabbergasted when they took Lucas ahead of Talia. Putting aside the fact Talia is significantly more talented than Lucas, as a key defender he was also an immediate need for that football club. It is difficult to pin the blame for the current list on MM. Whether he has exacerbated the situation with his delusional list analysis and premiership predictions is another matter. One really has to wonder why, if Carlton new before the start of the season they had a average/poor list, why they decided to overpay for Thomas who is under an injury cloud and likely not to be around for their next tilt.

Everyone loves captain hindsight. Lucas was a very good junior who hasn't been able to translate, wasn't the first and won't be the final one.

 

[gbatman]

I heard on the radio the other day that a lot of recruiters from other clubs were absolutely flabbergasted when they took Lucas ahead of Talia. Putting aside the fact Talia is significantly more talented than Lucas, as a key defender he was also an immediate need for that football club. It is difficult to pin the blame for the current list on MM. Whether he has exacerbated the situation with his delusional list analysis and premiership predictions is another matter. One really has to wonder why, if Carlton new before the start of the season they had a average/poor list, why they decided to overpay for Thomas who is under an injury cloud and likely not to be around for their next tilt.

Every one was flabbergasted, at least 50% of Hughe's selections just make you scratch your head.

Give him an early pick and he'll pick a good-reasonable player and miss out on all the guns.
Forget the next few rounds.

 

[GPW1]

Who did Carlton interview for the job as coach?

when was the last time we actually went through a proper process in hiring a coach?
malthouse - no
ratten - no
pagan - no
brittain - no

 

[MightyHawks]

when was the last time we actually went through a proper process in hiring a coach?
malthouse - no
ratten - no
pagan - no
brittain - no

When Schwabby was let go there were forces wanting Terry Wallace etc

Glad JD was in charge of making sure we found the best coach we could!

 

[BM123]

when was the last time we actually went through a proper process in hiring a coach?
malthouse - no
ratten - no
pagan - no
brittain - no

We pick coaches on reputation and nothing else.

 

[tribey]

I heard on the radio the other day that a lot of recruiters from other clubs were absolutely flabbergasted when they took Lucas ahead of Talia. Putting aside the fact Talia is significantly more talented than Lucas, as a key defender he was also an immediate need for that football club.

In fairness, they weren't the only ones.

After dealing Burgoyne to the Hawks we had #8 (Butcher), #9 (Moore) and #16 (Pittard). The first pick was a no-brainer what with Tredrea about to ride into the sunset and the freshly-acquired Schulz a lifetime away from the powerhouse he has become. Now I like Moore and Pittard and they are both capable of becoming good 200-gamers, but both were bolters and at least one of them would've been available at #16 had we also picked the best KPD available in Talia - which is what most of our board wanted at the time, given the diceroll on Trengove's hamstring the year before.

The Crows got an absolute steal.

 

[bombermick]

Walker could net you a highish pick, but If I was another club I would be very concerned he's gone over the hill. Was a fantastic talent, but not worth throwing money at guys who may or may not get back to their best.

 

[MightyHawks]

Trade
Walker - One of our better players but in the wrong age group, could land a high pick, keep otherwise. Has trade value.

Possible value. But then only to a club that thinks they can win a flag in the next 4 years. If you think that a top side might give you their first pick then you're probably looking at best case pick 16-20. Maybe the Swans need another forward?

Kreuzer - would only trade for a good price, very early draft pick but very very unlikely to get it. Big guys who don't mark it just aren't players who influence matches. Body is ordinary. Probably worth keeping seeing he has no trade value, time to trade has past.

Pick 20 would be your best case scenario. Too injury prone for a club to risk offering too much

Robinson - Probably has poor trade value but his skills are just far too poor and he can't run. Would keep him if we couldn't get a trade as we will need senior bodies during the rebuild.

If he's not good enough for Carlton and you guys aren't very good

Warnock - If anyone wants to give us a third round pick or better then can have him.

Unfortunately there is no market for Ruckman who aren't very good at hit outs or marking, but excellent at turning the ball over to the opposition - can't imagine anyone would take him for free let alone give up anything sorry

Garlett - Front runner, no physical aspects, if no trade is available then keep. Will have purple patches.

This guy has some value. A well run club might give you a second round pick if they think they can get the best out of him

Armfield - Keep unless we can get a third rounder or better.

You'd better keep him then

 

[Mateyman]

Pick 20 would be your best case scenario. Too injury prone for a club to risk offering too much

If you think Kreuzer isn't worth more than pick 20 you are deluded.

 

[gbatman]

Possible value. But then only to a club that thinks they can win a flag in the next 4 years. If you think that a top side might give you their first pick then you're probably looking at best case pick 16-20. Maybe the Swans need another forward?
Pick 20 would be your best case scenario. Too injury prone for a club to risk offering too much
If he's not good enough for Carlton and you guys aren't very good
Unfortunately there is no market for Ruckman who aren't very good at hit outs or marking, but excellent at turning the ball over to the opposition - can't imagine anyone would take him for free let alone give up anything sorry
This guy has some value. A well run club might give you a second round pick if they think they can get the best out of him
You'd better keep him then

Valid points, i was onto trading many of them years ago when they still had some value but it's plummeting. There are still clubs out there silly enough to give away picks for players who can't play, sometimes.

Kreuzer is a good yet injury prone player but I don't rate big guys who can't take the odd mark and kick the odd goal, if you could get a key position player or good onballer for him you would. This idea does not get a good reception with many of our supporters.

 

[MightyHawks]

If you think Kreuzer isn't worth more than pick 20 you are deluded.

You spent pick 18 on Grundy

Would you happy to swap him with Kreuzer at the end of the year?

Kreuzer is an absolute gun when fit, but...

 

[Mateyman]

You spent pick 18 on Grundy

Would you happy to swap him with Kreuzer at the end of the year?

Kreuzer is an absolute gun when fit, but...

I wouldn't switch him, but then I wouldn't switch Grundy for less than a top 5 pick. Look at how many spuds are taken in the top 10, let alone 10-20.

 

[MightyHawks]

Valid points, i was onto trading many of them years ago when they still had some value but it's plummeting. There are still clubs out there silly enough to give away picks for players who can't play, sometimes.

Kreuzer is a good yet injury prone player but I don't rate big guys who can't take the odd mark and kick the odd goal, if you could get a key position player or good onballer for him you would. This idea does not get a good reception with many of our supporters.

There's no way Carlton should trade Kreuzer though - Carlton supporters love him and he always gives his all for the club

 

[MightyHawks]

I wouldn't switch him, but then I wouldn't switch Grundy for less than a top 5 pick. Look at how many spuds are taken in the top 10, let alone 10-20.

No one would swap them

If Kreuzer was on the market after the Round 3 match v Collingwood a couple of years ago clubs would've paid anything for him

However massive massive injury risk

 

[Freomaniac]

Terrific OP. very prescient!

Yep and Im glad freo didnt tank in that 2008 and 2009 years. We got 6 wins in both of those seasons. Freo have recruited well since the 2008 draft.

 

[Kipz]

Carlton is by far the dumbest club in the AFL. If they gave a shit about what their supporters thought they wouldn't still be struggling.

 

[Woodson]

You're a North fan and you lot haven't bottomed out in a long time, sometimes 1 big draft is all it takes and you get 3-4-5 200 gamers, but it is all luck. A team like Sydney relies on recycled players and trades mainly but they have drafted well in the lower echelons of the draft also. Geelong, Collingwood, Hawthorn, St Kilda and the Dogs all bottomed out somewhere between 99-05 and were able to draft well and built solid squads from the basis of drafting, but yeah all it depends on the recruiting guys.

The 2006 season was the hardest… JYD choosing to go ultra defensive (read: subtly tank) means a third pick in the draft : Lauchy Hansen. Has taken awhile to come on.. BUT it's the picks of Todd Goldstein (third round pick, Lindsay Thomas in the 4th) that have proven to be keepers.

The WB's made a blunder trade IMHO, giving away A Everett to the Swans for a slab of beer. (hello Chism)

 

[Black Diamond]

I heard on the radio the other day that a lot of recruiters from other clubs were absolutely flabbergasted when they took Lucas ahead of Talia. Putting aside the fact Talia is significantly more talented than Lucas, as a key defender he was also an immediate need for that football club. It is difficult to pin the blame for the current list on MM. Whether he has exacerbated the situation with his delusional list analysis and premiership predictions is another matter. One really has to wonder why, if Carlton new before the start of the season they had a average/poor list, why they decided to overpay for Thomas who is under an injury cloud and likely not to be around for their next tilt.

I'd like to know if Carlton convinced Mick they have a good list and told him to coach for a flag, or if he told them the list was in good shape and he could get them a premiership.