Carlton 2024 - Are they being overestimated?

[Mr Meow]

I “Brad Johnsoned” the Blues

So GO THE CATS!!! Flag favourites for mine

Don't you dare.

I don't think Xtreme, BigVic and Havoc have any more room in their "Mozz the Cats" mini van.

 

[The King!]

Is anything left to play this weekend ? Unprecedented Injury list

 

[carlton_99]

Is anything left to play this weekend ? Unprecedented Injury list

I saw Kouta hand over the game ball yesterday and he looks ready to go

 

[BringFevBack2021]

I wouldn't.

Curnow can play anywhere. Literally anywhere. I don't know why Voss doesn't give him a run on the ball because he has the tank and could be similar to Koutoufides when he moved to the center on a full time basis middle of his career.
Cripps and Curnow would be dynamite. Maybe his knees won't hold up though?

Wouldn't work this year anyway with De Koning being out, as McKay alone up forward wouldn't cut it.

Charlie played midfield as a junior and rested forward

He also played wing at AFL level and looked really impressive

He is slow, but he’s agile

H is really quick but has the turning circle of a truck

Both run 6:0X 2k TT’s, for reference Nick Daicos runs a sub 6:30, most mids run sub 6:50

Elites run sub 6

Both have the ability to work defenders over, one really should be played like late Richo or Nick Riewoldt

I don’t get why we don’t take the 2v1 matchup on Charlie and try to expose H’s opponent, feels like we try to look for opportunities that are too good at times which allows Charlie’s double team to shift onto McKay

 

[Xtreme]

Don't you dare.

I don't think Xtreme, BigVic and Havoc have any more room in their "Mozz the Cats" mini van.

I'm not mozzing the Cats
I'm a paid member!

 

[hawkinoz]

To answer the question, yes - going by this mob

 

[HirdyLannister]

Carlton ain't beat WC this week.

 

[BringFevBack2021]

Carlton ain't beat WC this week.

Agree heavy

We just lost our two most prolific goalkickers over the past 5 years

 

[fnerd]

Agree heavy

We just lost our two most prolific goalkickers over the past 5 years

Two of the great ALL TIME forwards at that!!

 

[Fadge]

Carlton have got a lot of work ahead of them to avoid this being yet another failed rebuild.

As I've been saying for the past few years, their shortcomings are as clear as day:
Lack of depth beneath their top half dozen players (now including De Koning with the big 5);
Carrying too many injury prone players on their list, which magnifies the lack of depth;
Lack of pace and quality ball users.

How do they get near the following teams in the next couple of seasons:

Brisbane - Perennial contenders who will only get better next year with the return of Coleman, Doedee and Gardiner, a full season from Will Ashcroft and the injection of Levi Ashcroft;

GWS - Only getting better and have amazing class and depth, highlighted by the likes of Cadman and Jones kicking 5 last quarter goals between them to beat Brisbane in Brisbane.

Port Adelaide - can only continue to get better with the likes of Butters, Rozee, JHF, Georgiades entering their prime.

 

[Scritchyscroony]

Carlton have got a lot of work ahead of them to avoid this being yet another failed rebuild.

As I've been saying for the past few years, their shortcomings are as clear as day:
Lack of depth beneath their top half dozen players (now including De Koning with the big 5);
Carrying too many injury prone players on their list, which magnifies the lack of depth;
Lack of pace and quality ball users.

How do they get near the following teams in the next couple of seasons:

Brisbane - Perennial contenders who will only get better next year with the return of Coleman, Doedee and Gardiner, a full season from Will Ashcroft and the injection of Levi Ashcroft;

GWS - Only getting better and have amazing class and depth, highlighted by the likes of Cadman and Jones kicking 5 last quarter goals between them to beat Brisbane in Brisbane.

Port Adelaide - can only continue to get better with the likes of Butters, Rozee, JHF, Georgiades entering their prime.

They also need to establish a game plan and a brand. They need another A grader in the midfield to help Cripps out. Another key defender to help Weitering out and a whole bunch of flankers with pace and skill.
It doesn't look like a quick fix to me. Feel sorry for Cripps wasting his career at that club.

 

[stevehawkington]

Their entries into 50 are for curnow and mckay to try take a pack mark with owies at ground level.. too easy to defend against. They really need a third tall, small forwards that put pressure on or a ruck that kicks goals.

They should be going after battle or petracca in the off season

 

[bourbons]

Carlton ain't beat WC this week.

Haven't tipped us the last 3 weeks and won't be tipping us in the remaining 2.

Cooked

 

[Mr Meow]

They also need to establish a game plan and a brand. They need another A grader in the midfield to help Cripps out. Another key defender to help Weitering out and a whole bunch of flankers with pace and skill.
It doesn't look like a quick fix to me. Feel sorry for Cripps wasting his career at that club.

I hope their coaches aren't deflecting like the majority of their supporters.

The worst thing that could've happened was their injury collapse during the Hawthorn game. Not because it changed the result but because a club with weak culture could easily use that as a cop out for their season collapse - one that has been taking place for 6 weeks.

I don't actually believe that Voss, Cook and co have their head in the sand like the Carlton lot in that banter thread - but for clubs that have been so bad for so long, it can take a while to instil big culture shifts.

 

[The King!]

The injury list is a genuine issue , they are pretty ****ed.

Doesn't excuse some of the footy played , but it does matter.

 

[Mr Meow]

The injury list is a genuine issue , they are pretty ****ed.

Doesn't excuse some of the footy played , but it does matter.

FB: Kemp Weitering Boyd
HB: Saad McGovern Newman
C: Acres Cripps O.Hollands
HF: Cottrel McKay Williams
FF: Fogarty Curnow Cincotta
FOL: De Koning Cerra Walsh
IC: Cowan E.Hollands Kennedy Fantasia Owies(sub)

FB: Kemp Weitering Boyd
HB: Saad Marchbank Newman
C: Acres Cripps O.Hollands
HF: Cottrel McKay Williams
FF: Fogarty Curnow Cincotta
FOL: De Koning Cerra Walsh
IC: Cowan E.Hollands Pittonet Owies Kennedy(sub)

FB: Carroll Weitering Cincotta
HB: Saad S.Durdin Newman
C: Acres Cripps O.Hollands
HF: Cottrel McKay Motlop
FF: Fogarty Curnow Owies
FOL: De Koning Cerra Walsh
IC: Cowan E.Hollands Hewett Kennedy Cuningham(sub)

FB: Cowan Weitering Cuningham
HB: Saad McGovern Newman
C: Cottrel Cripps O.Hollands
HF: Owies Young Motlop
FF: Fogarty Curnow Cincotta
FOL: Pittonet Cerra Walsh
IC: Kennedy E.Hollands Hewett Owies Carroll(sub)

FB: Newman Weitering Kemp
HB: Saad McGovern Hewett
C: Acres Cripps O.Hollands
HF: Owies McKay Motlop
FF: Fogarty Curnow Cincotta
FOL: Pittonet Cerra Walsh
IC: Cottrel E.Hollands Hewett Boyd Kennedy(sub)

FB: Newman Weitering Kemp
HB: Saad McGovern Hewett
C: Acres Cripps O.Hollands
HF: Owies McKay Motlop
FF: Fogarty Curnow Williams
FOL: Pittonet Kennedy Walsh
IC: Cottrel E.Hollands Hewett Cowan Cincotta(sub)

These are the line ups for Carlton's 1-5 run. They haven't had shocking injury lists. What transpired during the game on Sunday was shocking - no doubt - but the narrative of a heavily depleted line up causing the form drop off is a false one.

 

[bourbons]

The injury list is a genuine issue , they are pretty ****ed.

Doesn't excuse some of the footy played , but it does matter.

It is now, I'd argue it wasn't for the last month and half. Basically only TDK (which is a huge loss for sure) and Cerra (who has been bog average this year).

 

[Blueboys11]

FB: Kemp Weitering Boyd
HB: Saad McGovern Newman
C: Acres Cripps O.Hollands
HF: Cottrel McKay Williams
FF: Fogarty Curnow Cincotta
FOL: De Koning Cerra Walsh
IC: Cowan E.Hollands Kennedy Fantasia Owies(sub)

FB: Kemp Weitering Boyd
HB: Saad Marchbank Newman
C: Acres Cripps O.Hollands
HF: Cottrel McKay Williams
FF: Fogarty Curnow Cincotta
FOL: De Koning Cerra Walsh
IC: Cowan E.Hollands Pittonet Owies Kennedy(sub)

FB: Carroll Weitering Cincotta
HB: Saad S.Durdin Newman
C: Acres Cripps O.Hollands
HF: Cottrel McKay Motlop
FF: Fogarty Curnow Owies
FOL: De Koning Cerra Walsh
IC: Cowan E.Hollands Hewett Kennedy Cuningham(sub)

FB: Cowan Weitering Cuningham
HB: Saad McGovern Newman
C: Cottrel Cripps O.Hollands
HF: Owies Young Motlop
FF: Fogarty Curnow Cincotta
FOL: Pittonet Cerra Walsh
IC: Kennedy E.Hollands Hewett Owies Carroll(sub)

FB: Newman Weitering Kemp
HB: Saad McGovern Hewett
C: Acres Cripps O.Hollands
HF: Owies McKay Motlop
FF: Fogarty Curnow Cincotta
FOL: Pittonet Cerra Walsh
IC: Cottrel E.Hollands Hewett Boyd Kennedy(sub)

FB: Newman Weitering Kemp
HB: Saad McGovern Hewett
C: Acres Cripps O.Hollands
HF: Owies McKay Motlop
FF: Fogarty Curnow Williams
FOL: Pittonet Kennedy Walsh
IC: Cottrel E.Hollands Hewett Cowan Cincotta(sub)

These are the line ups for Carlton's 1-5 run. They haven't had shocking injury lists. What transpired during the game on Sunday was shocking - no doubt - but the narrative of a heavily depleted line up causing the form drop off is a false one.

nice copy and paste job. Carlton been battling one of the longer injury lists all season. Till TDK went down it had just been restricted to those players outside our top 6 big guns thus had been able to cover it quite well. The Geelong game was probably our strongest team all season and we saw how that played out. From there the stocks have been dwindling again and now the big guns are going down as well which means its season over. Reality is no team could contend with the level of injuries facing the blues at the moment

 

[LordLucifer]

Whether or not we agree on the why, I think you can see that there is an insufficiency there. My question is whether or not those players you speak of are truly not good enough skill wise like you say, or whether it is actually a coaching problem…

I think what you definitely do have is too many confidence players who pick and choose when to turn it on, so that doesn’t help (and I think it’s one of your major flaws). But what makes me lean towards the coaching is that other than throwing Curnow into defence for obvious reasons, rarely do you see Vossy implement a change mid game in an attempt to shift momentum. You seem to have 1 mode (if you can call it that), and that mode is too reliant on randomness and contested marking. Even some of the poorer outfits have a discernible method of moving the ball up the ground. With you guys it’s a genuine mystery what is going to happen. It’s a case of rolling the same randomness dice over and over again in the hopes that a few players link up and their individual talent gets you over the line, which in many cases it does because there are some genuine guns in there. But if you want to win 3 finals games in a row against the very best to take out a granny, to get lucky 3 times in a row is going to be a stretch.

I think you are aware of it anyway. I’ve just been more so bemused by a large cohort of Carlton supporters who ooze confidence thinking they are actually a great ‘football’ side. Then after a couple of losses (expected ones imo), they seem surprised and dumbfounded. I had never been more confident tipping the dogs and gws this year.

A lot of good observations there.

After that limpwristed effort on the weekend, every player on the list & every coach has to be on notice - heads should roll now !!

We have way too many "flaky" types on the list, they are mentally weak and throw in the towel way too quickly.

Added to that, we have recruited a number of players from other clubs who were busted up & injury prone when they arrived and nothing has changed during their tenure at Princes Park. They are lucky to play, on average, five games per year but to make matters even worse, our bonehead aministrators don't have the nouse, balls or straightforward intelligence to boot them preferring to reward them with unwarranted contract extensions.

For Carlton to not only save face but give themselves a chance of being considered professional, they need to enter into a mini-rebuild at season's end (plus next year) and bring in the key ingredients they desperately need right now (3-4 robust goal-kicking mids with genuine leg-speed, a third marking forward & a gorilla-minding key position defender).

Furthermore, over the next two off-seasons, they have to just be sensible about booting the non-events on the list (Martin, Cuningham, Marchbank, Mirkov, Akuei, S. Durdin & Fantasia) plus trade-out the in-contract lemons as well (Young, Pittonet, C. Durdin, Silvagni, Kennedy, McGovern & possibly Cottrell).

 

[Rotayjay]

It's shit luck with these injuries - I feel for the players and Carlton fans. To win a premiership, you need luck as well as skill.

 

[bourbons]

..bring in the key ingredients they desperately need right now (3-4 robust goal-kicking mids with genuine leg-speed, a third marking forward & a gorilla-minding key position defender).

Oh is that all

 

[bourbons]

These are the line ups for Carlton's 1-5 run. They haven't had shocking injury lists. What transpired during the game on Sunday was shocking - no doubt - but the narrative of a heavily depleted line up causing the form drop off is a false one.

Yep. A grand total of 2 changes in last weekend's team from the team that beat Geelong by 10 goals 8 weeks ago.

Huge drop off mentally imo.

 

[HBFlanker]

If Carlton win this week, they will make the prelim at a minimum.

This will be huge for the confidence of the group.

I reckon they can do it by a couple of goals.

 

[Scritchyscroony]

If Carlton win this week, they will make the prelim at a minimum.

DaFuq?
If they beat West Coast they will make a prelim at a minimum. Did I miss the sarcasm or something?

 

[CarmenSandiego]

I hope their coaches aren't deflecting like the majority of their supporters.

The worst thing that could've happened was their injury collapse during the Hawthorn game. Not because it changed the result but because a club with weak culture could easily use that as a cop out for their season collapse - one that has been taking place for 6 weeks.

I don't actually believe that Voss, Cook and co have their head in the sand like the Carlton lot in that banter thread - but for clubs that have been so bad for so long, it can take a while to instil big culture shifts.

That thread is for just that - banter.

Any Carlton fan with half a brain know that injuries aren't an excuse for the collapse. The injuries were also clearly our own doing which is why we've moved on Andrew "best in the bizzzzzzzzzz" Russell.

Our form has been shit for more than half of the year, and plenty of those games we had a healthy 22 in.

Rubbish year, right in our window which is a bit of a disaster. Make necessary changes and try to get better next year, it's all we can do.