Welcome to East Germany Carlton and Collingwood - who finishes higher in 2023? Collingwood Ofcourse

[PieLebo87]

Bottom 6 is being fixed but is reliant on injuries. Instead of having most of the season playing Newnes and Plowman we instead have Marchbank, McGovern, Williams. Instead of LOB or Cottrell we bring in Acres next year. Instead of Owies we get more out of Honey, Durdin or Motlop. Instead of Setterfield or Dow we have Hewett or Kennedy. There is heaps of options there to improve that bottom 6 if the youth step up a little and we stop getting smashed with injuries. We were 0.6% out of the eight, I'm not saying these players are the difference to us finishing 1st but they definitely make us 0.6% better.

Only Cripps, Saad and Docherty would have played near their peak this year. Curnow was unreal but if him and McKay can learn to kick straighter they can be even better. Walsh and Weitering were down on previous years. Our starting back six barely played more then one game all together. We had a coach in his first year. We should have made the 8, but if people can't see how we will improve they just simply don't want to.

I’ve said it before, I’d be very surprised if the Blues didn’t make top 8 next year.

I still believe though that Collingwood should finish higher.

People doubting Collingwood’s game plan and Fly repeating his work seem to have no issues with Voss automatically getting more out of his side - that’s strange for me.

This trade period should give us a better indication around whether either side is going more long term with their list management or wanting to get immediate improvements.

 

[Fadge]

This trade period should give us a better indication around whether either side is going more long term with their list management or wanting to get immediate improvements.

Why not immediate improvements with an eye on the longer term?

That is how teams like Geelong, Sydney and Collingwood have been able to remain top 4 relevant for the better part of two decades.

And as of right now, those three teams are clearly the best three in the competition.

 

[PumpyChowdown]

Trolling aside, this is actually a pretty good thread.

Carlton's best 5 or 6 are among the best in the competition. Last two Coleman medalists, current Brownlow medalist, runner up in last years Brownlow and currently 3 All-Australians.

We have five areas that have to be addressed before we can truly contend though:

1. Our bottom 6 - 10 players really need to improve. Players like Cottrell, O'Brien, Setterfield, Plowman, Pittonet, Owies, Dow, Fisher etc, all need to pull their finger out and force themselves to be the best they can.
2. Our younger players need to also step up and take it to the next level. Durden, Kemp, De Koning, Carroll, Motlop, Philp, Honey, Boyd - all with a tonne of raw, natural talent but not fully realised yet. If three or four could elevate themselves a level or two we'd be in incredible shape.
3. Our high priced recruits need to pull their fingers out - I'm looking at you Zac Williams, Jack Martin

21

Jack Martin

Age

29

Ht

186cm

Wt

82kg

Pos.

Fwd

Career

Season

Last 5

D

16.2

4star

K

10.0

4star

HB

6.3

4star

M

4.9

5star

T

3.7

5star

G

0.9

4star

D

14.9

4star

K

7.9

3star

HB

7.0

4star

M

4.3

4star

T

3.6

4star

G

1.1

5star

D

8.2

2star

K

4.6

2star

HB

3.6

3star

M

1.8

2star

T

2.0

4star

G

0.6

3star

and Mitch McGovern

11

Mitch Mcgovern

Age

29

Ht

190cm

Wt

88kg

Pos.

Def

Career

Season

Last 5

D

10.1

3star

K

7.2

3star

HB

2.9

3star

M

4.6

4star

T

2.2

4star

MG

189.8

3star

D

7.6

2star

K

6.5

3star

HB

1.1

1star

M

3.6

4star

T

1.9

3star

MG

179.6

3star

D

10.8

3star

K

6.8

3star

HB

4.0

3star

M

4.0

4star

T

3.0

5star

MG

218.0

4star

.
4. Please can we have a better run with injuries? Please?
5. Mental weakness - as amply demonstrated in the final two round - we have simply forgotten how to win. When genuinely under the pump our brains turn to mush and we are absolutely shizen. Embarrassingly so. Get this fixed up with robust training and game plans, coupled with learning to win - by actually winning more games - and shove a lengthy bit of steel in every players spines, well that'd be just grouse.

If we can address the above - even slightly - we'll go a long way.

As for the prediction. Both Pies and Blues will finish anywhere from 2 - 8 next year. You'd have to expect Collingwood to slide a bit given their absolutely freakish run this year, and hopefully the bitter end to our year provides sufficient motivation for them to step it up a level or two next year.

 

[RedWhite4Ever]

Carlton vs. Collingwood Grand Final next year.

 

[Robroy22]

Yawn.......

 

[beerbandit]

Do you think it’s more likely that one of Fremantle or WB drop out than Collingwood? I wouldn’t be surprised if all 3 did

Interested to see where you think Geelong fits next year then?? If you think Collingwood drop out then Geelong must be a chance?? As seen 2 weeks ago there is only a goal difference between the sides currently, and let’s be honest , that game could of gone either way very easily mate.

 

[spudmaster]

Carlton have the reigning Brownlow medalist - not a fair fight.

 

[WalshistheGOAT]

I keep hearing that all our guns were up and about this year... Just wondering what the hell you Pies fans are talking about?


Walsh - Down year, missed half of the pre season and a few games mid season with injury and just never seemed to fully get going. 22 years old and with a full pre season likely gets back to his best or improves on that again to one of the top 5 players in the league.

Weitering - Good first half of the year, went down injured and never looked the same in the 2nd half. History would indicate he'll get back to his best with a clean run at it.

Williams - Missed half the year with injuries
Mcgovern - Missed almost the entire year with injuries
Cuningham - Missed the entire season with injuries

Cerra - Started unbelievably, got covid early and never looked right again until the last few weeks of the season after battling through a couple of minor injuries mid year

Kennedy - Missed the last month of the year

Hewett - Missed almost the whole back half of the year after being bordering on AA in every game he played.

Mckay - First year playing with Curnow in years. Injury in the middle of the year and never looked to find his form upon returning. Was better in 2021 and if you sort out his kicking and he probably wins another Coleman.

Curnow - First season in 3 years but I'm hearing he's peaked too?

Pittonet - Missed half the season

Young - Played his first ever full season as a full back, only played 20 games coming into the year and performed well beyond expectations. 23 years old, still heaps of upside.

TDK - Played 41 games, will continue to improve as his body matures with a few more pre seasons like you'd expect from any young Ruck.




Really the only 4-5 players I think you could say we got the best out of them this year are Cripps, Docherty, Saad, Newman and maybe Fisher. Not sure how we have no upside there?

Our youngsters too with the likes of Motlop, Carroll, Durdin and Boyd although still speculative... like any club... They all did about as much as you could ask from them and showed plenty of signs of being high quality players in the future.

 

[beerbandit]

That game should’ve been repeated again this week. I had us in 5th beginning of the year and reckon I will again for next season.

Geelong will be top 4 again as will Collingwood , sides have to improve to pass. I can see Collingwood and Geelongs lists getting both better next year if the trade rumours are correct. As will Brisbane and Sydney are young and not going anywhere for a while.

 

[footyfan1978]

Do you think it’s more likely that one of Fremantle or WB drop out than Collingwood? I wouldn’t be surprised if all 3 did

Nope. Flip of coin in my opinion. Dogs should have done better. Hard to know if they lost their way hearing same coach for sometime or just a hiccup year and improve next year. I think Pies should have Freo covered but not so sure about Dogs.

 

[Millky95]

This is an interesting one. Hard to tell obviously before trade period but you would expect Collingwood to have a tougher draw than Carlton due to where they finished for the year.

You could argue Carlton under performed and should have made finals and Collingwood over performed by winning so many tight games.

I have both sides playing finals next year but would guess Carlton at the moment with the assumption they get a much easier draw

 

[master bate]

Carlton have more top end talent in the right age range but depth isn’t great.

Collingwood are bringing in 600 players this trade period, have a very solid best 22 (the idea the pies made a prelim with a bunch of scrubs isn’t true), but the list is a bit of a mixed bag. There’s veterans nearly the end as well.

If you were picking a team in the school kids in the playground style there a decent argument you’d go Cripps, Curnow, McKay, Walsh, Weitering, Docherty before any Collingwood player apart from Moore or the unsigned DeGoey. But at the same time you’d get through most of Collingwood’s best 25 before Carlton’s 20-25 I’d suggest.

So injuries, fixture luck, suspensions will play a role. As will be the question of which coach refines their game plan to get better, especially with coaches having more time to scout them.

 

[Arr0w]

Why not immediate improvements with an eye on the longer term?

That is how teams like Geelong, Sydney and Collingwood have been able to remain top 4 relevant for the better part of two decades.

And as of right now, those three teams are clearly the best three in the competition.

Find it interesting that you would compare yourself to the Swans and Cats

Over the last 9 years, you have missed finals on 5 occasions, while the Cats have missed 1, Swans 2 over that same period

 

[beerbandit]

Find it interesting that you would compare yourself to the Swans and Cats

Over the last 9 years, you have missed finals on 5 occasions, while the Cats have missed 1, Swans 2 over that same period

You’ve stopped at 9 years. Random number!!

I assume he means the 10 prelims in 20 years

Geelong 13 prelims in 20 years and Sydney 8 prelims in 20 years.

Carlton 0 prelims in 20 years

Therefore yes he is correct those 3 sides are perennial top 4 sides

 

[magpiemaniac44]

Find it interesting that you would compare yourself to the Swans and Cats

Over the last 9 years, you have missed finals on 5 occasions, while the Cats have missed 1, Swans 2 over that same period

Since 2002 Geelong have played in 13 prelims, Collingwood 10 and Sydney 8. Pretty consistent if you ask me.

 

[Arr0w]

You’ve stopped at 9 years. Random number!!

I assume he means the 10 prelims in 20 years

Geelong 13 prelims in 20 years and Sydney 8 prelims in 20 years.

Carlton 0 prelims in 20 years

Therefore yes he is correct those 3 sides are perennial top 4 sides

Since 2002 Geelong have played in 13 prelims, Collingwood 10 and Sydney 8. Pretty consistent if you ask me.

History, is just that, we can all draw a line at a starting point

I would be more impressed if people could predict the next 10 years, but of course that's only opinion

Stated at the start of this thread, think both sides will have similar outcomes next year, in or around 5th to 8th

 

[doppleganger]

Carlton

Since 2002 Geelong have played in 13 prelims, Collingwood 10 and Sydney 8. Pretty consistent if you ask me.

Carlton 0 PFs but 5 wooden spoons.

Carlton, the St Kilda of the AFL era.

 

[La Dispute]

Both clubs should finish in the 5-9 range any either could make it into the Top 4.

The Blues have more ground to make up with our bottom 10 players, but have a much better top end.

I also don’t feel our better players have peaked.

Curnow played out his first season as a senior player and should improve again.

McKay was pretty poor in a lot of games and is still clearly working out how to impact with another elite forward in the side although his presence did create plenty of opportunities for Curnow.

Weitering was poor coming back from injury.

Walsh was good, not great.

Cripps arguably had his best individual season, but prior to 2020 that was just his standard. His 2018 was a ridiculously good year that doesn’t really get mentioned because the Blues won 2 games - his work on the inside was exceptional though.

Saad elevated himself again, but not by much. His prior 4 seasons were of a high caliber.

There’s an argument to be made that many star Blues players didn’t play to their ultimate potential and only Cripps and Saad had what might be career years.

Losing Pittonet - who isn’t a star, but was forming as an important piece - hurt us.

The Pies will be thereabouts. Game plan looks like it’s going to hold up, they’re just needing to fill out more structurally and find the right personnel to accommodate McRae’s vision.

They’ll cop a harder draw, but they beat plenty of decent teams this year and any minor disadvantage that creates should be reconciled with some further growth in the squad.

Would be awesome seeing the Blues and Pies compete in a final - a Grand Final in particular. I can see the attendance record being smashed.

 

[footyfan1978]

Just your team in the 8 next season and the other 7 remain unchanged?

Doubt it, More likely two changes.
I hope Suns make it for first time.

 

[Arr0w]

Carlton

Carlton 0 PFs but 5 wooden spoons.

Carlton, the St Kilda of the AFL era.

And what does it have to do with 2023?

Or are you going use it to predict Carlton (and the Dockers) fighting to stay out out of the bottom 4 like this year, or that we wouldn't win more than 8 games?

 

[BringouttheGimp]

Pretty speechless some reckon Carlton and that mate.

It's Collingwood mate!
It's Collingwood mate!

Come to think of it.. I'm speechless anyhow.. cause I'm using a keypad.. oh Gimp.. try hopscotch you hotdog.. hahaha.. oh God.

 

[Jeremias]

Another MB thread on Carlton? Old mate Fudge must be in heaven.

Strange seeing him post in a thread about Collingwood though, that must have been a conflict for him.

To answer the thread, tipping one team falls whilst the other rises. Whether it's by enough to tip the scales remains to be seen, it'll be close.

 

[freddy mercury]

Carlton. Collingwood aren't winning as many close games again, with the harder fixture it'll be against them.

 

[leon123]

This wont be a popular view.

Pies/Blues... super competitive in 2023. Both finish top 4 or 8. Play each other twice in the year. Pies win one, Blues the other.

Close game in the finals (pies hopefully win though).

I did enjoy the days when we were both performing well, I think the historic rivalry is still there.

I think Blues/Pies supporters enjoy hating each other (I do anyways)

 

[andon]

Both had decent seasons, Carlton are pretty talented and should challenge top 4 next year.

Collingwood were outstanding, what an amazing team and very savy coach, will challenge top 4
and could win the flag next year.

2 very good teams, but the Pies to finish higher.