Carlton and Melbourne - who has the greater supporter base

[Alphonse_]

I was pleasantly surprised by the huge number of Dees fans at both their MCG finals this year (and they were vocal and passionate).

That footy club has been through the emotional wringer for almost 15 years now, good to see them up and about.

 

[jezzajay]

carlton fans have ****** off in droves, thought the point was clear.

Clear as day...and obvious.
They’ll come back.

 

[bluedabadee]

Essendon will always have a large supporter base no matter how disgracefully they behave.
You only have to look at Trump in America to know that.

 

[gopies1981]

Yep. After 38 years of lasts and a few ninths and two finals wins. By far the worst record in the league from 1983-2016. We come out and win a final and go on to win the premiership last year. This year we pretty much get 1.2 mill in crowds and over 100k members. That’s on par with what Essendon would achieve and more success can get us closer to 1.3 mill. Definitely top 3. Bombers could get 100k members I think. Not sure if collingwood can though. Collingwood have been the best performed team onfield this century which has given them the advantage in crowds

If Richmond can get 100,000 then Collingwood can most certainly. Collingwood is still the only club to draw over 1.3 million during the home and away season in 2010. Collingwood is the only club to draw 1.2 million during the home and away season 5 times. Collingwood will get very close to 90,000 next year and if we win the premiership 100,000 Collingwood will break easily. You cannot look at memberships from 8 years ago as the biggest was Collingwood with 67,000. Membership numbers have grown tenfold since then.

 

[gopies1981]

If you want to determine size of the club, look at what the base is. Anyone can draw a crowd in successful periods. Also, pulling power when all things are well is highly circumstantial. Too many variables such as ground-size restrictions (MCG vs Non-MCG tenants), the number of MCG games, double-ups, opponent form, membership set-up (GA vs a high number of reserved seats) etc.

All things considered, I’d say:

1. Collingwood
2. Essendon
3. Richmond
4. Carlton
5. Hawthorn
6. Geelong
7. Melbourne
8. St Kilda
9. Western Bulldogs
10. North Melbourne

This is pretty spot on..... Melbourne are very low in terms of social media but that might have to do with being a older supporterbase and also being crap for the last 12 years.

Melbourne as they proved this year with 2 90,000 finals crowds plus drawing 83,000 v Collingwood and 77,000 v Richmond are a mid size club when going well. They even draw 51,000 v Sydney and 37,000 v gws at the end of the year.

Next year I expect a Melbourne to draw some huge crowds including 2 crowds of 85,000 v Richmond and Collingwood on Anzac eve and queens bday. The advantage the dees have is their huge mcc members supporterbase. In both the elimination and semi finals the mcc members stand was sold out. Richmond v Collingwood had 5,000 empty seats in the mcc members stand and they were the 2 biggest drawing clubs in 2018!!

If Melbourne can get premiership success their fan base will increase especially in the south east around Cranbourne were their reserves play. At the present time most people in Cranbourne follow Richmond, hawthorn and Collingwood. With Essendon and Melbourne below

 

[windyhill]

Clear as day...and obvious.
They’ll come back.

Probably the biggest front runners in the league.

 

[windyhill]

Essendon will always have a large supporter base no matter how disgracefully they behave.
You only have to look at Trump in America to know that.

Thank you John Elliott

 

[RAPPA]

Fair few bandwagoners waiting for Carlton to push for finals before they dust off the cobwebs from their scarves and attend a game.

 

[Jesse Custer]

I would've thought Carlton, even after years at the bottom.
They're out there, just not going to games. Once they start improving, they'll come back.

 

[pebblestone]

You cannot look at memberships from 8 years ago as the biggest was Collingwood with 67,000. Membership numbers have grown tenfold since then.

Do you know what tenfold means?

Clearly not.

 

[mr bagcroft]

The Dees are a sleeping giant.

There’s without question a lost generation, but despite being an embarrassment for over almust 20 years we still have decent attendances.

Richmond was a sleeping giant.
lol.
Melbourne, are certainly not.
Come on guys lets not be silly.

 

[JayJ20]

Carlton now are very comparable to Richmond pre-2013.

Richmond were a distant 4th in most measures compared to Collingwood, Essendon and Carlton.

It takes one relatively successful season to come out of the woodworks.

 

[LoungeLizard]

Carlton now are very comparable to Richmond pre-2013.

Richmond were a distant 4th in most measures compared to Collingwood, Essendon and Carlton.

It takes one relatively successful season to come out of the woodworks.

If it takes any longer though, there might not be many still alive.

 

[loki04]

Richmond’s attendances and memberships when they were in a 37 year premiership drought were still far superior to Essendon’s. They were keeping up pace with Hawthorn and Collingwood who had both come off recent success - one side came off a three-peat and another is regarded as the biggest in the country. Essendon are well behind the leaders now. Furthermore, whilst Essendon haven’t had much recent on-field success they haven’t reached the lows of Richmond who had been a genuine laughing stock for a significant period. Yes, Richmond have just won a flag, but not even Collingwood blew everyone out of the water the way Richmond did when they won one.

Your case for Essendon is weak when you’re basing it on hypotheticals and conjecture. The facts are Richmond dominate memberships and lead attendances. They’re currently the benchmark of the competition after knocking Collingwood off the top. It was always going to happen when they won one. They’re a juggernaut off-field at the moment and the AFL are probably glad they didn’t go back to back as they would’ve broken away from the chasing pack even further.

It was due to their lack of success that they came out in droves when they finally won one, also they as a club have been wanting to one up the pies in this area and rallied to get to 100k.

 

[Nobu]

It was due to their lack of success that they came out in droves when they finally won one, also they as a club have been wanting to one up the pies in this area and rallied to get to 100k.

Obviously, but they did alright keeping up with the leaders when they were starved of success. They're now out of your sights.

 

[loki04]

Obviously, but they did alright keeping up with the leaders when they were starved of success. They're now out of your sights.

Pies were getting 70K plus whilst bottom 6 under Buckley.

Rich make 100k a year after a premiership and pies hit 80k off a 4th year bot 6.

Yeah out of sight.

 

[Dan26]

Richmond’s attendances and memberships when they were in a 37 year premiership drought were still far superior to Essendon’s. .

No they weren't. that;s a downright lie.

Richmond has won more games than Essendon over the last 14 years, and had many more MCG games yet the Bombers STILL outdraw Richmond.

I am selectively choosing this 12 year period because it is immediately AFTER Essendon started performing poorly (i.e from 2005 onwards). Richmond won more games than Essendon, over this period, played at the MCG as their home ground, and still couldn't compete with Essendon's crowds, even though the Bombers mainly played at Marvel Stadium. And Essendon only won 39.77% of games in this period, with the last 4 years been enveloped in the drug saga!

ESSENDON
YEAR: W/L............total 22 game attendance
2005: 8-14.............979,102
2006: 3-1-18..........935,522
2007: 10-12...........1,088,652
2008: 8-14.............1,044,123
2009: 10-1-11.........1,089,224
2010: 7-15..............1,009,837
2011: 11-1-10..........1,093,206
2012: 11-11...............994,993
2013: 14-8................1,036,044
2014: 12-1-9.............977,970
2015: 6-16................894,335
2016: 3-19................802,059
Winning percentage: 39.77%....... av. attendance per game: 45,246

RICHMOND
YEAR: W/L............total 22 game attendance
2005: 10-12................802,885
2006: 11-11................855,556
2007: 3-1-18...............909,203
2008: 11-1-10..............934,002
2009: 5-1-16................868,855
2010: 6-16...................834,590
2011: 8-1-13................895,290
2012: 10-1-11..............871,504
2013: 15-7.................1,040290
2014: 12-10.................839,772
2015: 15-7..................1,054,354
2016: 8-14.................900,237
Winning percentage: 44.13%......... av attendance per game: 40,933



In Victoria, Collingwood and Essendon are virtual equals.

Carlton is third, and Richmond is marginally behind Carlton

 

[Dan26]

Oh, and Essendon made the finals for 7 straight years from 1998-2004. If I started the sequence in 1998, you are totally obliterated. Hell, Richmond couldn't even outdraw Essendon in 2005, 2006, 2008, 2012, 2014, despite Essendon having more losses (or the same amount) in every one of those years.

Would anyone like me to post those numbers from 1998-2004 and add them to ones above?

 

[Nobu]

No they weren't. that;s a downright lie.

Richmond has won more games than Essendon over the last 14 years, and had many more MCG games yet the Bombers STILL outdraw Richmond.

I am selectively choosing this 12 year period because it is immediately AFTER Essendon started performing poorly (i.e from 2005 onwards). Richmond won more games than Essendon, over this period, played at the MCG as their home ground, and still couldn't compete with Essendon's crowds, even though the Bombers mainly played at Marvel Stadium. And Essendon only won 39.77% of games in this period, with the last 4 years been enveloped in the drug saga!

ESSENDON
YEAR: W/L............total 22 game attendance
2005: 8-14.............979,102
2006: 3-1-18..........935,522
2007: 10-12...........1,088,652
2008: 8-14.............1,044,123
2009: 10-1-11.........1,089,224
2010: 7-15..............1,009,837
2011: 11-1-10..........1,093,206
2012: 11-11...............994,993
2013: 14-8................1,036,044
2014: 12-1-9.............977,970
2015: 6-16................894,335
2016: 3-19................802,059
Winning percentage: 39.77%....... av. attendance per game: 45,246

RICHMOND
YEAR: W/L............total 22 game attendance
2005: 10-12................802,885
2006: 11-11................855,556
2007: 3-1-18...............909,203
2008: 11-1-10..............934,002
2009: 5-1-16................868,855
2010: 6-16...................834,590
2011: 8-1-13................895,290
2012: 10-1-11..............871,504
2013: 15-7.................1,040290
2014: 12-10.................839,772
2015: 15-7..................1,054,354
2016: 8-14.................900,237
Winning percentage: 44.13%......... av attendance per game: 40,933



In Victoria, Collingwood and Essendon are virtual equals.

Carlton is third, and Richmond is marginally behind Carlton

How is it a lie?

When Richmond were in a 37 year drought (2017), their membership numbers and attendances were higher than Essendon's. Tell me how that is a lie.

I'll wait.

 

[Nobu]

Pies were getting 70K plus whilst bottom 6 under Buckley.

Rich make 100k a year after a premiership and pies hit 80k off a 4th year bot 6.

Yeah out of sight.

You're 30k behind them. You're not catching them any time soon unless they fall off a cliff and you create a dynasty.

 

[Nobu]

Oh, and Essendon made the finals for 7 straight years from 1998-2004. If I started the sequence in 1998, you are totally obliterated. Hell, Richmond couldn't even outdraw Essendon in 2005, 2006, 2008, 2012, 2014, despite Essendon having more losses (or the same amount) in every one of those years.

Would anyone like me to post those numbers from 1998-2004 and add them to ones above?

Can you name me a time Essendon outdrew Richmond's 2018 season?

Cheers

 

[Dan26]

How is it a lie?

When Richmond were in a 37 year premiership drought (2017), their membership numbers and attendances were higher than Essendon's.

Wrong.

Richmond's Grand Final drought lasted form 1983-2016.

Richmond outdraw Essendon in 1983, 2013, 2015*, 2016, 2017*, 2018

Essendon outdrew Richmond in:

1984
1985
1986
1987
1988
1989
1990
1991
1992
1993
1994
1995
1996
1997
1998
1999
2000
2001
2002
2003
2004
2005
2006
2007
2008
2009
2010
2011
2012
2014

And 2017 and 2015 barely even counts as Richmond attendance "wins" anyway as they crowd for both clubs were almost identical in those years

2017
Rich: 1,024667
Ess: 1,019,667 (despite finishing lower on ladder and NOT having the MCG as a home ground)

2015
Rich: 1,054,354
Ess :1,054,044 (despite Essendon finishing 10 spots lower on the ladder and NOT having the MCG as a home ground)

Those two years are effectively tied for attendance,

So, over Richmond's 34 year grand final drought from 1983-2016, there were:

- Two tied years: (2015, 2017)
- 4 clear wins to Richmond
- 30 clear wins to Essendon

How is it a lie?
Tell me how that is a lie.

Because Essendon have consistently outdrawn Richmond over 3 decades even in some years where Richmond finished above Essendon on the ladder.

Even from the period 2005-2016, where Essendon won less than 40% of their games, they still outdrew a more successful Richmond.

I'll wait.

Good. Now you that you have been shown the truth you can change your narrative to suit what the facts are.

 

[Dan26]

Can you name me a time Essendon outdrew Richmond's 2018 season?

Cheers

Interesting you bring this up.

Richmond crowds in the 2018 H&A season were 1,194,893

This is the best Richmond has even achieved in a season.

Essendon best crowds in a season was in 1998 and it was 1,169,551

Richmond was coming off a premiership in 2017 and finished minor-premiers in 2018

Essendon was coming off a 14th in 1997 and finished 8th in 1998, at a time when MCG crowds were smaller due the ground not having been redeveloped

Does anyone seriously think Richmond could draw 1,169,551 people in a year where you finish 8th? Essendon did it and they were a middle-of-the-road team.

Essendon and Collingwod stand alone. Carlton are third, Richmond are a close 4th. That is a simple fact.

 

[Nobu]

Interesting you bring this up.

Richmond crowds in the 2018 H&A season were 1,194,893

This is the best Richmond has even achieved in a season.

Essendon best crowds in a season was in 1998 and it was 1,169,551

Richmond was coming off a premiership in 2017 and finished minor-premiers in 2018

Essendon was coming off a 14th in 1997 and finished 8th in 1998, at a time when MCG crowds were smaller due the ground not having been redeveloped

Does anyone seriously think Richmond could draw 1,169,551 people in a year where you finish 8th? Essendon did it and they were a middle-of-the-road team.

Essendon and Collingwod stand alone. Carlton are third, Richmond are a close 4th. That is a simple fact.

You’re digging deep into the archives to make a case for Essendon. A lot changes in one year, let alone ten, so whatever records you’ve dusted off from 1983 are no longer relevant I’m afraid. You’re clutching at straws if you’re bringing up records from around the time coloured television was introduced. Do you understand what “evolution” means? There may have been a time when Essendon were considered a bigger club than Richmond, but those days are long gone.

At present, Richmond is an off-field juggernaut. You’re well behind them with both attendances and memberships. You have never reached their heights. It’s nothing to be ashamed of because Essendon aren’t alone in this regard. You also cannot use their flag as an excuse as to why you’re behind them, because it was the same story before they won a flag - and you were behind them despite Richmond being in one of the longest premiership droughts in football history.

If you asked any respected figure within the media who the biggest club in Melbourne is, you’ll get two responses. The overwhelming majority will be Richmond, whilst you’ll get the occasional Collingwood. The only person that thinks Essendon are in the conversation is Tim Watson, but we all know he’s a few sandwiches short of a picnic, plus I said respected figure.

 

[Bostonian]

Not sure registered SuperCoach members is a good indicator of a supporter base! Does the Financial Times do fantasy football? Better indicator. With prize money of $50,000 most Melbourne supporters can raise that by renting out the yacht or the beach house for a week!

There was a survey a few years ago that showed Carlton supporters had the highest avg income of all supporter bases.