Banter Carlton is better in 2024. Who will be better in 2025? Carlton or Collingwood? Part 3

[Doc1763]

Carlton made the eight Pies didn't the system has been the same for years mate, it's 18 teams not just Carlton and Collingwood, if it was Pies would've won.

yes, the system has been the same for years, and it wont be changing.
As a result, it will always throw up anomalies like this season, where Carlton made the 8, and were humiliated, and Collingwood were irrefutably better.

 

[Scritchyscroony]

Dear Carlton,
I refer to my previous two letters requesting to be delisted. I note your response requesting that I reconsider.

After careful deliberation I can confirm that I wish to be delisted. I can't take it any more.
Please delist me.
Regards,
Jack Martin

21

Jack Martin

Age

29

Ht

186cm

Wt

82kg

Pos.

Fwd

Career

Season

Last 5

D

16.2

4star

K

10.0

4star

HB

6.3

4star

M

4.9

5star

T

3.7

5star

G

0.9

4star

D

14.9

4star

K

7.9

3star

HB

7.0

4star

M

4.3

4star

T

3.6

4star

G

1.1

5star

D

8.2

2star

K

4.6

2star

HB

3.6

3star

M

1.8

2star

T

2.0

4star

G

0.6

3star

..

 

[Robertio]

Collingwood were irrefutably better.

Came down to the last kick in the game both times and in the 2nd game if McGovern kicks staight Carlton win I don't agree with you at all.

 

[Mr Meow]

A fittingly simpleton response.

Incapable of challenging one point of a post they described as "scary".

 

[Doc1763]

Came down to the last kick in the game both times and in the 2nd game if McGovern kicks staight Carlton win I don't agree with you at all.

LOL, McGovern

Did the Club actually realize they were getting the dud brother?

Who kicked the winning goal in the first game, I cant seem to remember.

Anyway, 2-zip. we were irrefutably better.

 

[Robertio]

LOL, McGovern

Did the Club actually realize they were getting the dud brother?

Who kicked the winning goal in the first game, I cant seem to remember.

Anyway, 2-zip. we were irrefutably better.

 

[Scritchyscroony]

Came down to the last kick in the game both times and in the 2nd game if McGovern kicks staight Carlton win I don't agree with you at all.

Heartbreaking for you Blooser fans wasn't it..

But:
Blueshake chokes in close games is hardly something you should be relying on as a point of argument in Carlton's favour.

 

[Robertio]

Heartbreaking for you Blooser fans wasn't it..

But:
Blueshake chokes in close games is hardly something you should be relying on as a point of argument in Carlton's favour.

I'll use this then.

 

[carlton_99]

Lol you saying you are neutral does not mean the theory has been "comprehensively and repeatedly rubbished".

Given you repeatedly reference me when you go on your "neutrals" complaint, it makes sense that I would talk from a Geelong supporters point of view. I note that you have not disagreed with any of my points when I elaborate on this topic. So you can remove any fantasy of Geelong supporters being included for neutrals who prefer Collingwood over Carlton. It is a weak way to discredit anything said as "it is only because they hate Carlton".

Neutrals do not think Carlton were a better side than Collingwood in 2024. They were at the same level, Carlton had a couple more soft kills but Collingwood held them off in the 2 h2h matches. "But but we finished ahead of them by %" is a seriously pathetic thing to cling to in this situation. Which is very on brand for Carlton supporters.

I don't agree at all that your views are representative of all Geelong fans - that is beyond ridiculous. Every person is unique and so has different views regardless of the team they follow. I dislike Essendon more than Collingwood and know that most Carlton fans I have interacted with are the opposite. And I am not trying to discredit anything anyone says - all I am pointing out is that there are no true neutrals with teams like Collingwood/Carlton/Essendon etc - put me in a Collingwood/Essendon forum and I will be as Collingwood-biased as some Pies fans on here despite hoping both teams get deregistered from the AFL tomorrow.

Once again, the objective measure for who was better that I used all year and in previous threads was the ladder, and in the case both teams make finals their position in said finals. That in my opinion is the best way to avoid introducing bias. Some posters on here were happy using the ladder when it suited them and then switched up awfully quickly. I agree that the gap was small in 24' and no one has really said otherwise but in a thread filled with rival supporters the gloating is going to be massive even if we both finished 17th and 18th.

 

[Corn Cobbers]

View attachment 2110600
I'll use this then.

Think your club would have been better off if it was the other way around

 

[Doc1763]

View attachment 2110600
I'll use this then.

use whatever you like

 

[Scritchyscroony]

Think your club would have been better off if it was the other way around

Would've saved the Owen 60 blushes

 

[Doc1763]

Would've saved the blushes

and a lot of money as well. Just imagine, flying all the way up there to see them be 60-0 in the second quarter.

 

[Mr Meow]

I don't agree at all that your views are representative of all Geelong fans - that is beyond ridiculous. Every person is unique and so has different views regardless of the team they follow. I dislike Essendon more than Collingwood and know that most Carlton fans I have interacted with are the opposite. And I am not trying to discredit anything anyone says - all I am pointing out is that there are no true neutrals with teams like Collingwood/Carlton/Essendon etc - put me in a Collingwood/Essendon forum and I will be as Collingwood-biased as some Pies fan on here despite hoping both teams get deregistered from the AFL tomorrow.

Once again, the objective measure for who was better that I used all year and in previous threads was the ladder, and in the case both teams make finals their position in said finals. That in my opinion is the best way to avoid introducing bias. Some posters on here were happy using the ladder when it suited them and then switched up awfully quickly. I agree that the gap was small in 24' and no one has really said otherwise but in a thread filled with a rival supporter base the gloating is going to be massive even if we both finished 17th and 18th.

Well one appraisal is based on the many Geelong people I know and converse with daily (be it online or in real life). You question that it might not be representative based on what...a gut feel that has no logical background? Explain how it makes sense to me.

Finishing on equal points does not give an objective outcome on which team was better. A single extra Carlton victory would've been enough. If it was against Collingwood there would be 8 points difference and a slam dunk result.

Both sides supporters are predictably not budging given the circumstances. It's a draw. For "who is currently winning" in a draw situation you then defer to the previous season: Collingwood, as premiers. Moving on.

If both teams finish on equal points next season there will be the same lack of clarity. Especially if, once you split % and h2h record, you are still left with a tie.

 

[Scritchyscroony]

and a lot of money as well. Just imagine, flying all the way up there to see them be 60-0 in the second quarter.

Depressing.

You spend all that time, money and energy and your team doesn't get off the bus until half time.
I guess they're used to it though.

 

[caloschwaby]

Are you embarrassed ?
Bunch of show boating pretenders couldn't even get into the finals with your so called dynasty list. A threepeat wasn't it going to be ? Was certainly mentioned. What a joke of a club. The book on collingwoods 2024 should be shut never to be reopened but, here we are.

Winners are grinners !

 

[Doc1763]

Are you embarrassed ?
Bunch of show boating pretenders couldn't even get into the finals with your so called dynasty list. A threepeat wasn't it going to be ? Was certainly mentioned. What a joke of a club. The book on collingwoods 2024 should be shut never to be reopened but, here we are.

Oh well, I suppose we'll just have to endure our 1 year Premiership drought.

Meanwhile....................

 

[caloschwaby]

Let's see your analysis of us finishing 13th this year (plus Blues top 4 )
View attachment 2110512
Post in thread 'Who will be better in 2024? Carlton or Collingwood? Part 2' https://www.bigfooty.com/forum/thre...n-or-collingwood-part-2.1382643/post-84270013

Glorious

For a lot that seem to have a really good memory of 30-50 years ago... they really struggle with things said mere 2-3 months in passing

 

[carlton_99]

Well one appraisal is based on the many Geelong people I know and converse with daily (be it online or in real life). You question that it might not be representative based on what...a gut feel that has no logical background? Explain how it makes sense to me.

All I said was your views are not automatically representative of Geelong fans just because you are a Geelong fan. Not sure how that can be argued against. There are Richmond fans which have shown bias against Collingwood on here - doesn't mean all Richmond fans like Carlton more. It's not logical.

Finishing on equal points does not give an objective outcome on which team was better. A single extra Carlton victory would've been enough. If it was against Collingwood there would be 8 points difference and a slam dunk result.

Both sides supporters are predictably not budging given the circumstances. It's a draw. For "who is currently winning" in a draw situation you then defer to the previous season: Collingwood, as premiers. Moving on.

If both teams finish on equal points next season there will be the same lack of clarity. Especially if, once you split % and h2h record, you are still left with a tie.

Once again Pies fans were happy to use the ladder as an objective measure until they fell behind. The thread is about who is better - not by how much and nothing to do with either team actually having a successful season (which they both didn't). If both teams finish on equal points again you will have the same rubbish being said for pages on pages regarding fixturing and umpiring which are all influenced by bias. Why can't Pies fans just agree to one objective measure that accurately reflects the season's results and stick with it?

Mark my words next year if Pies finish ahead (even if it is one spot) they will be claiming they are better and rightfully so. The H+A season is all about making finals so if both teams miss finals whoever gets closer to that has had an objectively better season. If one team makes it and the other doesn't they have had the better season. Fixtures, umpiring, weather, injuries etc are all inherently variable each year - there's no point going on an on about something we know is never even. If both teams make finals it is just logical to go off finishing position in finals as the H+A season becomes irrelevant - it's then all about winning a flag and whoever gets closer to that has had a better season.

The only time I would see some lack of clarity is if both teams made finals and got kicked out in the same week.

 

[Doc1763]

Let's see your analysis of us finishing 13th this year (plus Blues top 4 )
View attachment 2110512
Post in thread 'Who will be better in 2024? Carlton or Collingwood? Part 2' https://www.bigfooty.com/forum/thre...n-or-collingwood-part-2.1382643/post-84270013

I fairness, that was just after they'd won the June Premiership, and were unanimous, unbackable, outright favorites for the real one. It was difficult to see where they'd lose another game

 

[Mr Meow]

All I said was your views are not automatically representative of Geelong fans just because you are a Geelong fan. Not sure how that can be argued against. There are Richmond fans which have shown bias against Collingwood on here - doesn't mean all Richmond fans like Carlton more. It's not logical.


Once again Pies fans were happy to use the ladder as an objective measure until they fell behind. The thread is about who is better - not by how much and nothing to do with either team actually having a successful season (which they both didn't). If both teams finish on equal points again you will have the same rubbish being said for pages on pages regarding fixturing and umpiring which are all influenced by bias. Why can't Pies fans just agree to one objective measure that accurately reflects the season's results and stick with it?

Mark my words next year if Pies finish ahead (even if it is one spot) they will be claiming they are better and rightfully so. The H+A season is all about making finals so if both teams miss finals whoever gets closer to that has had an objectively better season. If one team makes it and the other doesn't they have had the better season. Fixtures, umpiring, weather, injuries etc are all inherently variable each year - there's no point going on an on about something we know is never even. If both teams make finals it is just logical to go off finishing position in finals as the H+A season becomes irrelevant - it's then all about winning a flag and whoever gets closer to that has had a better season.

The only time I would see some lack of clarity is if both teams made finals and got kicked out in the same week.

Of course not every supporter of a club has identical views. I have a verdict on consensus based on interactions and logic. You disagree with it. But aren't really challenging it either. Sweeping sarcastic statements like "oh yeah the so called neutrals have had their say" imply that there is some big anti-Carlton position among neutrals. More so than anti Collingwood. Which is something I had never heard before.

If Pies supporters all agreed, why wasn't the thread title who would finish higher on the ladder? Lack of clarity again. You and the Blues boys are understandably saying ladder gives the result no matter what, even if finishing on equal points. Collingwood supporters are understandably pointing out the nuances you are well aware of.

It's a draw. There wasn't a decisive winner in 2024. The more both sets of supporters disagree, the more locked in that draw result is.

 

[Doc1763]

Of course not every supporter of a club has identical views. I have a verdict on consensus based on interactions and logic. You disagree with it. But aren't really challenging it either. Sweeping sarcastic statements like "oh yeah the so called neutrals have had their say" imply that there is some big anti-Carlton position among neutrals. More so than anti Collingwood. Which is something I had never heard before.

If Pies supporters all agreed, why wasn't the thread title who would finish higher on the ladder? Lack of clarity again. You and the Blues boys are understandably saying ladder gives the result no matter what, even if finishing on equal points. Collingwood supporters are understandably pointing out the nuances you are well aware of.

It's a draw. There wasn't a decisive winner in 2024. The more both sets of supporters disagree, the more locked in that draw result is.

This is what happens when you are flagless for 29 years, and finishing above your arch rival on the ladder is all you have to cling to. They are the St Kilda of the 21 century.

 

[carlton_99]

Of course not every supporter of a club has identical views. I have a verdict on consensus based on interactions and logic. You disagree with it. But aren't really challenging it either. Sweeping sarcastic statements like "oh yeah the so called neutrals have had their say" imply that there is some big anti-Carlton position among neutrals. More so than anti Collingwood. Which is something I had never heard before.

If Pies supporters all agreed, why wasn't the thread title who would finish higher on the ladder? Lack of clarity again. You and the Blues boys are understandably saying ladder gives the result no matter what, even if finishing on equal points. Collingwood supporters are understandably pointing out the nuances you are well aware of.

It's a draw. There wasn't a decisive winner in 2024. The more both sets of supporters disagree, the more locked in that draw result is.

I am only speaking about people that do not support Carlton or Collingwood that post in this thread. Look at the posting history of any of them and tell me which ones you think are neutral. If every single one of their posts are just liked by one set of supporters and never the other that is usually a good sign their posting leans one way or the other. It may be the club, it may be their dealing with the supporters it's irrelevant - they haven't been neutral in any case.

Pies supporters were using the ladder in this thread right until they dropped behind - again I am asking for them to agree to an objective measure they will stick to for a season regardless of what happens and nobody has responded. It seems they like to keep it vague and lacking any clarity. And pointing out nuances that just benefit your view of things is just bias - that isn't objective analysis.

 

[Robertio]

This is what happens when you are flagless for 29 years, and finishing above your arch rival on the ladder is all you have to cling to. They are the St Kilda of the 21 century.

Finishing above our arch rival in 2024 is enough to cling onto I'd say, seems you want to bring up everything but 2024.

 

[rye]

Whinging about the big bad neutrals who so obviously adore Collingwood and despise Calrlton as football clubs. A theory that has been comprehensively and repeatedly rubbished. A sub section of Carlton supporters are mocked more, that's all. The pathetic "look we were irrefutably a better side in 2024!" routine the latest thing that people are ridiculing.

its incredible isnt it.

the same carlton posters who think their club has had a grand triumph this year are also convinced the neutral supporters in this thread are closet collingwood supporters.

severe lack of critical thinking skills.