Banter Who will be better in 2025, Carlton or Collingwood? Part 3

[Corn Cobbers]

28 points is a lot closer than Sydney came.

Do I have to explain this again?

 

[Robertio]

Do I have to explain this again?
View attachment 2126903

If the game went another quarter we would've won so we're really moral premiers.

 

[Pistol Night]

If the game went another quarter we would've won so we're really moral premiers.

Games that go 5 quarters. Or 5 fifths to be precise. Interesting. If that fails we could try 6 until Carlton eventually win. Or the players drop dead

 

[JPetro83]

Carlton should be better in 2025.. "SHOULD" but its Carlton we are talking about and the culture at the Pies seems to always prevail

 

[timokane]

better culture at the pies then the blues and go the flag in the bag from 2023.
pies have the runs on the board.

 

[Arr0w]

Have the Pie supporters eaten all the tacos yet

 

[HeathySure]

What? Clubs win flags based off high picks all the time.

Hawthorn 3-peat:
Franklin - Pick 5
Roughead - Pick 2
Lewis - Pick 7
Hodge - Pick 2
Cyril & Birchall - Pick 12 & 14

Richmond 3 flags in 4 years:
Dusty - Pick 3
Cotchin - Pick 2
Riewoldt - Pick 13

Melbourne in '21 were littered with high picks.

Brisbane spent years at the bottom collecting high picks who played on the weekend - and look to be set up for a dynasty off the back of it.

That's 8 of the last 11 flags that have been won by clubs who have valued high picks - so you're just so blatantly wrong it's not funny.

I assume you're basing your argument off the fact that Collingwood don't believe in the draft, but let's just clear up that: Collingwood pinched a flag off the back of:

N Daicos - projected Pick 1-2
D Moore - Projected top 5 who you got as F/S for pick 9
Quaynor - Projected 1st round who you got as NGA.
De Goey - Pick 5

Once again, you don't get near a flag without those 4. Let's also not forget you got Pendlebury for Pick 5 who has been the rock for 20 years in keeping you competitive.

The 'draft is overrated' approach is losing its merit imo. Clubs are falling over themselves to access the draft this year before Tassie comes in, if draft picks were overrated then they wouldn't be doing that.

i am basing my argument on sides that bottomed out and took way too long to go up again. Swans Cats Pies , yes the Hawks, are constantly up there without high draft picks.
Every side has high draft picks, the will come eventually BUT as i have already stated, unless you find a generational player you are not going to rise up quickly.

Hawks had shrewd picks but also got lucky that they bottomed out at the right time. lol Tigers , they had 3. They stayed up there for longer than they should have with free agents. Carlton has had about 15 and cant get anywhere. North have had heaps but are miles off it. Gold Coast have had heaps but are miles off it, Dogs have had a couple but they never bottomed out, father son and academy picks have helped them (the system isnt fair and i am saying this as a Naicos fanatic)

Anyway i am glad you are happy with all your high draft picks, long may you get them, you seem to be on the right track again

 

[Lockyer24]

Need to see the fixture and injury list - it’s the only way they can finish above us..just. We all saw what happened head to head

 

[CarmenSandiego]

i am basing my argument on sides that bottomed out and took way too long to go up again. Swans Cats Pies , yes the Hawks, are constantly up there without high draft picks.

Swans have an academy - not comparable. They're also making a habit of getting belted in Grand Finals.

Geelong have a monopoly on their geographic location - not comparable.

Collingwood would be bottom 6 if not for their F/S & NGA selections. If they remain a threat post 2025, I'll be seriously impressed.

Erm, Hawks build their 3-peat with high picks, then traded AWAY their high picks (for O'Meara, Mitchell etc) then fell to the bottom. It's literally the opposite of what you're saying.

lol Tigers , they had 3. They stayed up there for longer than they should have with free agents.

Again, the opposite. They stayed up until they canned the draft and traded picks away for Taranto & Hopper, then what happened? Their 2017 flag had about 9 first rounders playing.

Carlton has had about 15 and cant get anywhere. North have had heaps but are miles off it. Gold Coast have had heaps but are miles off it, Dogs have had a couple but they never bottomed out, father son and academy picks have helped them (the system isnt fair and i am saying this as a Naicos fanatic)

It takes time. The only team you listed behind schedule really is Carlton.

Now, let's list the teams that have gotten nowhere over the years by going to the 'ignore the draft' method.

Essendon trading the farm for Shiel, Stringer, Smith, Saad etc.
North under Scott
St Kilda post 2010 under Lyon
Richmond for Taranto & Hopper
Hawthorn for O'Meara/Mitchell et al
Adelaide end of 2017 recruiting Gibbs.

From 2014-2024, 8 flags have been won by teams who have rebuilt via the draft. But yeah nah, the draft is overrated. The Norm Smith medalist is a #1 pick ffs, your best player was projected #1 if not for junior injuries.

You're just clinging onto hope Collingwoods method will pay off.

Anyway i am glad you are happy with all your high draft picks, long may you get them, you seem to be on the right track again

I'm happy with our core of players we got through the draft, since ignoring the draft and trading picks away, our depth looks worse. I hope we keep pick 11 this year.

 

[HeathySure]

Swans have an academy - not comparable. They're also making a habit of getting belted in Grand Finals.

Geelong have a monopoly on their geographic location - not comparable.

Collingwood would be bottom 6 if not for their F/S & NGA selections. If they remain a threat post 2025, I'll be seriously impressed.

Erm, Hawks build their 3-peat with high picks, then traded AWAY their high picks (for O'Meara, Mitchell etc) then fell to the bottom. It's literally the opposite of what you're saying.



Again, the opposite. They stayed up until they canned the draft and traded picks away for Taranto & Hopper, then what happened? Their 2017 flag had about 9 first rounders playing.



It takes time. The only team you listed behind schedule really is Carlton.

Now, let's list the teams that have gotten nowhere over the years by going to the 'ignore the draft' method.

Essendon trading the farm for Shiel, Stringer, Smith, Saad etc.
North under Scott
St Kilda post 2010 under Lyon
Richmond for Taranto & Hopper
Hawthorn for O'Meara/Mitchell et al
Adelaide end of 2017 recruiting Gibbs.

From 2014-2024, flags have been won by teams who have rebuilt via the draft. But yeah nah, the draft is overrated. The Norm Smith medalist is a #1 pick ffs, your best player was projected #1 if not for junior injuries.

You're just clinging onto hope Collingwoods method will pay off.



I'm happy with our core of players we got through the draft, since ignoring the draft and trading picks away, our depth looks worse. I hope we keep pick 11 this year.

Hawks have also drafted in failed high draft picks like Ward and Granger barrass and they arent the reason they had success this year,..

I agree with you about the Swans academy, but Buddy Franklin was a generational player and they had him for 10 years.,.
Geelong get guys who want to go there. but also traded in a lot of players from other clubs who kept them up there. The basis of all this success was the father son rule, thats not bottoming out...
Pies gave away draft picks and paid for decent players to go.. and won a flag.. They won a premiership filling in the holes with players they needed, you cannot do that through the draft..
Lets look at Brisbane shall we... 3 high draft picks. McLuggage whos a star, Ashcroft who got there through father son and and Spraynor who was worst for brisbane and is very very ordinary. the rest were free agents, rookies and battlers. and players who they got for their needs...
Demons took forever to get up and had a number of failed no 1 picks and finally got 3 generational players in Gawn Oliver and Petracca AND picked players for their needs. (then threw it away a dynasty cos their coach is shocking)

Blues have had so many high draft picks its not funny,. have stayed low for 25 years, have the best fulll back, a star midfielder no 1 draft pick who i actually rate but is miscoached, a dual brownlow medalist and not 1 but 2 Coleman medalists and cant get out of their own way.

Draft is over rated if you want to win a flag.. you either fluke one of the 20 or so superstars of the last 15 years and win or get stuck with heaps of goodish, ordinary and bust type players and do nothing

 

[Collingwoodcrew]

Have the Pie supporters eaten all the tacos yet

Yes, I had 60 my partner had 0.
That was before the dinner siren.


Sent from my iPhone using BigFooty.com

 

[Arr0w]

Yes, I had 60 my partner had 0.
That was before the dinner siren.


Sent from my iPhone using BigFooty.com

Did you actually make it to the dinner table or eating from the curb

 

[Freomaniac]

That should have said almost seventy years my bad!

It hurts me to say this. But I do see Carlton winning a flag sooner than you all think.

They are following a similar path than a recent flag winner in the last 5 years

 

[Freomaniac]

Wow they have turned on Vossy on the Carlton board.

Carlton are getting as crazy and unpredictable as Port fans towards Ken Hinkley.... Almost

 

[Fadge]

It hurts me to say this. But I do see Carlton winning a flag sooner than you all think.

They are following a similar path than a recent flag winner in the last 5 years

Oh no.

In 2012, Carlton were the 2006 Geelong equivalent.

Then in 2022, Carlton were the 2016 Richmond equivalent.

Now I assume you're suggesting Carlton 2024 are Melbourne 2019?

When will people ever learn?

 

[Irish BlueBagger]

Carlton should be better in 2025.. "SHOULD" but its Carlton we are talking about and the culture at the Pies seems to always prevail

Three flags in sixty five years would suggest otherwise, but at least the Pies don't make a Sydney Swans style holy show of themselves in grand finals.

To be fair to the Pies the last arse kicking they were on the receiving end of in a grand final was against Richmond in 1980.

It's the only Tigers flag win i enjoy watching to tell you the truth!

 

[Fadge]

Three flags in sixty five years would suggest otherwise, but at least the Pies don't make a Sydney Swans style holy show of themselves in grand finals.

To be fair to the Pies the last arse kicking they were on the receiving end of in a grand final was against Richmond in 1980.

I know we play in so many it's hard to keep track, but 2003 wasn't our finest day...

 

[Tadpole]

I know we play in so many it's hard to keep track, but 2003 wasn't our finest day...

What can I say? Nobody’s perfect - but we get pretty darn close.

 

[Fadge]

Yes, I had 60 my partner had 0.
That was before the dinner siren.

Let me guess....

You then eased up after the dinner siren to allow your partner to have a heap more tacos than you, because you had three big meals coming up over the next three weeks whilst your partner was going home?

 

[Fadge]

What can I say? Nobody’s perfect - but we get pretty darn close.

Indeed.

It takes an amazing team to have been present in more than one third of all Grand Finals ever played.

Particularly when you think some teams haven't looked like playing in a Grand Final for a quarter of a century now...

 

[GoldStandard]

Three flags in sixty five years would suggest otherwise, but at least the Pies don't make a Sydney Swans style holy show of themselves in grand finals.

To be fair to the Pies the last arse kicking they were on the receiving end of in a grand final was against Richmond in 1980.

It's the only Tigers flag win i enjoy watching to tell you the truth!

2003

 

[Pistol Night]

2003

11 months before Essendon's last finals win

 

[Fadge]

11 months before Essendon's last finals win

No wonder they remember those years so well...

 

[Irish BlueBagger]

2003

I forgot that one. There's been so many Pies grand final defeats over the years it's hard to remember them all.

 

[Pistol Night]

I forgot that one. There's been so many Pies grand final defeats over the years it's hard to remember them all.

You blokes would love the chance to shit the bed in a GF. You have to settle for 1 prelim every 25 years though. Cute