Autopsy Cats lose to Suns by 64 points.

[geelong_crazy26]

No, he didn't - and more to the point, he looked like he was going backwards over 2010-11 until the last couple of weeks of the H&A season.

Hawkins had a massive head start on Neale as well, being one of - if not the best - prospect in his draft year.

Disagree entirely. I recal his first four- five years very well and he showed enormous potential his debut game and the one after against melbourne. Showed glimpses the next couple of years before being a regular in 09 kicking 32 goals for the year.

10-11 he struggled, but to say he didnt show huge potential is rubbish

 

[geelong_crazy26]

You have a fuzzy memory.

By round 10 of his fourth season Hawkins had played 53 games, and had been roundly criticised for not impacting games. By the middle of 2010 he was being played as a quasi ruckman to find ways to get him games.

By his fourth season, Hawkins was a whipping boy on this board and across the league.

Neale has had nowhere near the level of opportunity to play, we simply haven’t needed him. By round 10 of his fourth season he has played 7 games. If he played 24 games this season (the same number Hawkins had in his third season), I would be very confident to say he would get 34 goals (note - Hawkins kicked 34 goals not 32 goals in 2009, just sayin).

Hawkins was a generational talent, given every opportunity to play and it still took him until his sixth season to become a consistent quality key forward.

neale might be good, he might not be good, but right now we have no idea.

Im not referening to only his 2010-2011 i am saying in general he showed huge talent. Neale has not shown 1/10th the potential tom hawkins showed over his first 4 years as a comparison.

Neale has his contracr expire end of 2025, which is more than enough time to see if he is good enough

 

[Finknottle]

Carlton at 12th on the ladder with a percentage of only 102 is the third favourite at Sportsbet to win the Premiership. There must be a lot of crazy punters out there.

 

[CatToTheFuture]

Carlton at 12th on the ladder with a percentage of only 102 is the third favourite at Sportsbet to win the Premiership. There must be a lot of crazy punters out there.

Lot of early money for them that needs to be balanced out I guess. Wouldn't have been crazy to have chucked money on them a month ago

 

[Zouz Kitty]

Methinks you're suffering from a touch of the "Gryan's" re Neale, Kitty.

As I said earlier, he was drafted in 2020. If we took your view that that when we recruit a player for 'X' role that's it we wouldn't have been competitive for as long as we have. There a quite a few in our present team who aren't playing the role they were when spotted. And I give you Esava as one playing elsewhere on a handy contract who flourished when moved to the back half. CS is all about flexibility.

There's nothing wrong with seeing a given player through rose-colored glasses. Just glad the coach is a little more open-minded.

Not rose coloured glasses, AM. Although I did have flower shaped ones in the 70s.
A few people have put forward the theory I suggested to you. Look at the treatment Hawkins was subjected to early on.

 

[catswhiskers]

In the VFL Geelong beat Coburg 88 to 66. Geelong were expected to win. The interesting thing was Coburg had 30 free kicks to Geelong's 12.

Its like umpiring kids when there is an obvious thrashing in play for team A over team B.

The umpire moves the lever to - Team A gets very clear and obvious frees only : Team B gets anything that can be matched to a rule even if it is slight/trivial.

Umpiring standard = U13 and lower

And that's the level where that sort of umpiring should stay. It has no place in senior mens or womens football.

 

[CHAWKTS]

Bad loss. They were better than us. They got the rub of the green from the umpires and we made it worse trying hard to arrest their momentum. I thought the whole team could not handle the ball so there is no point picking out individuals and making judgments.

I dont see us winning the flag this year so development becomes even more of a priority.

Obviously the biggest issue is our midfeild. We are not fixing this overnight. I would bring in Kenivitt and would invest several games in him. Hardie gets a chance. We could do with a bigger body in the middle. If not this week, soon, but Kenivitt on the wing and through the middle would be my priority.

On our backline, maybe having Stewart, Zuthrie and Holmes all hell bent on attack is out of balance. Holmes back to the midfeild is the easy fix. This would give COS an opening.

On Neale, yes it looked like he couldnt mark anything. But that was true of everyone. I hope he stays in this week to give Jez another week to recover remembering he had a bad concussion last year. I actually thought there was cause for optimism with Neale.

I thought Oisin's inexperiance showed. I think he needs to stay at AFL level to learn. Once again, I think there is cause for optimism.

The midfield whipping boys appear to be Parf, Atkin, Bruhn and Clark. Beating up on Bruhn and Clark is silly. For me they play full games every week. They are still learning but have bright futures. The other 2 do a lot of unrewarded defensive work.

Conway is now Geelong's number one ruck. He plays every week unless he needs a break. I love Rhys. Far from the best, but he will retire as a premiership ruckman. And he still gives everything has.

Bad week but I cannot help being still hopeful about the future. Go Cats.

I agree with nearly everything you said. However the can’t see the match committee concluding that we are not going to win the flag this year.

I concluded the same thing quite early in 2023 and certainly at half way…but the club waited until mathematically impossible in round 24 before giving dempsey and knevitte and Conway and some others a run. Obviously in hindsight that was the wrong call and we wasted opportunity to pump more games into younger guys. But hindsight is easy!

So my expectation now for this year is that the club will believe they can win the flag until it becomes impossible to do so. 2022 showed that is how you play in back half of year that counts. Indeed 2016 Bulldogs showed you just had to make it and play 4 good finals. Quite rare but possible.

Given Hawkins, 2E, Rohan, Duncan, Guthrie, blitz etc are at the end and we have Jezza…I can understand why the club will keep the faith until impossible. I do think it is high risk and we will miss out on games into Neale, Knevitt, cos, Lawson and even mannagh and Hardie that could be imprortant beyond this year. But I am resigned I think to the strategy.

I am hoping thought, like 2022, we do have a couple of those older players replaced by youth and not end up in the best 23. 2E one of them?

 

[CHAWKTS]

Once again, my theory: lose contested possession + we win, is proved correct

Suns
156
Geelong
158

I think I did some analysis a few weeks back that said we needed to lose the clearances by 4 in a quarter for us to guarantee winning that qtr. if that dropped below then it was a toss of the coin. If we win clearances we have no hope!

 

[Warhorse]

The midfield whipping boys appear to be Parf, Atkin, Bruhn and Clark. Beating up on Bruhn and Clark is silly. For me they play full games every week. They are still learning but have bright futures. The other 2 do a lot of unrewarded defensive work.

They are whipping boys for a reason. On form, none are AFL standard starting midfielders right now.

 

[gogeelongcats]

They are whipping boys for a reason. On form, none are AFL standard starting midfielders right now.

This game gave a strong indication that our senior players are in decline/injury prone and we have no option but to play our younger players such as Bruhn and Clark. There are several others.

It gives us a chance to see their potential and growth. This is actually very exciting.

Lets hope the team get their mojo back quickly if not we have the younger bunch to look forward to.

 

[Finknottle]

This game gave a strong indication that our senior players are in decline/injury prone and we have no option but to play our younger players such as Bruhn and Clark. There are several others.

It gives us a chance to see their potential and growth. This is actually very exciting.

Lets hope the team get their mojo back quickly if not we have the younger bunch to look forward to.

I'd prefer they promote some of the VFL guys now. In Hardie and Mannagh, out Cuthrie and Atkins.

 

[Finknottle]

GWS has good intercept marking defenders. Could play Hawkins and have Neale as sub. Give Hawkins a half to show something. If he doesn't then sub in Neale for Hawkins. If Hawkins is having a good game then sub In Neale for someone else at 3 quarter time.

 

[Finknottle]

They are whipping boys for a reason. On form, none are AFL standard starting midfielders right now.

Bruhn is the only one putting up midfield numbers, and only when he is fit. Holmes is going well the times he goes into the middle. Atkins, Clark, Parfitt, Cuthrie, Blicavs are nowhere near it. We don't have the luxury to carry Cam Guthrie while he gets his fitness back. We lose a couple more games in this slump and finals may not be an option. He should do that in the VFL. It's no good looking at their tackle numbers even if they are good. We need midfielders who hunt the ball and get there before their opponent. I think we should try some of the VFL players now.

 

[Zouz Kitty]

I think I did some analysis a few weeks back that said we needed to lose the clearances by 4 in a quarter for us to guarantee winning that qtr. if that dropped below then it was a toss of the coin. If we win clearances we have no hope!

Around 2013 to 2015, I think, we lost many contested possessions, but won games. It was a joke with footy friends. It seems, some games this year, when we've lost contested possessions, we've won.

 

[tommy2011]

I'd prefer they promote some of the VFL guys now. In Hardie and Mannagh, out Cuthrie and Atkins.

Bruhn, Clark, Holmes and Bowes are nowhere near the talent of Harley Reid, but I hope they all look at him and realise you don't have to be in your mid-20s+ to take on the game.

 

[Chinacats]

Not junk time:

Q1: GEE 5 - GCS 3
Q2: GEE 3 - GCS 6
Q3: GEE 4 - GCS 4
Q4: GEE 6 - GCS 5

Conway had 8 of our 18. We also won the total clearance count 47-43, and contested possessions 158-156.

We got belted in inside 50s (56-73), and marks inside 50 (5-16).

Scores from stoppages was the belter then….. our exits weren’t damaging…. It was a midfield mauling . Their run and movement off the lines added to their work rate blitzed us!

 

[The_Koulouriotis_Fan]

Bruhn, Clark, Holmes and Bowes are nowhere near the talent of Harley Reid, but I hope they all look at him and realise you don't have to be in your mid-20s+ to take on the game.

Not every player is a generational talent like Harley Reid.
Give them time. Some goldfish on this board, do we forget that some players take a bit longer to develop - Bartel, Johnson, Hawkins, Z Guthrie, Chapman etc
Not every player dominates in their first season. Reid, Daicos, Judd, Selwood are outliers.

 

[allrighty]

GWS has good intercept marking defenders. Could play Hawkins and have Neale as sub. Give Hawkins a half to show something. If he doesn't then sub in Neale for Hawkins. If Hawkins is having a good game then sub In Neale for someone else at 3 quarter time.

Ruck? Conway for 3?

 

[allrighty]

Not every player is a generational talent like Harley Reid.
Give them time. Some goldfish on this board, do we forget that some players take a bit longer to develop - Bartel, Johnson, Hawkins, Z Guthrie, Chapman etc
Not every player dominates in their first season. Reid, Daicos, Judd, Selwood are outliers.

love it

 

[Kobe Gryant]

Not every player is a generational talent like Harley Reid.
Give them time. Some goldfish on this board, do we forget that some players take a bit longer to develop - Bartel, Johnson, Hawkins, Z Guthrie, Chapman etc
Not every player dominates in their first season. Reid, Daicos, Judd, Selwood are outliers.

You could even go more recently.

2014 - Maybe Jake Kolodjashnij makes it, but it just sucks that we got the 'dud brother'; as young Kade looks like a star in waiting.

2017 - Jack Henry & Tom Stewart might be okay players with some development, but they're not blue chip talents like Griffin Logue.

Much less Jack Scrimshaw, who Zach Guthrie will NEVER be in the same post-code of as a player. The talent gap is just too big.

2018 - We might be able to develop Gryan Miers into a serviceable footballer...but Jaidyn Stephenson is just a different level. You go that high in the draft for a reason.

2020 - We all like Max Holmes, he's got some great athletic traits...but until we can get to the top of the draft and pick our version of Will Phillips, Dylan Stephens, or Jye Caldwell, it's hard to see us having a future star.

 

[Warhorse]

Bruhn is the only one putting up midfield numbers, and only when he is fit. Holmes is going well the times he goes into the middle. Atkins, Clark, Parfitt, Cuthrie, Blicavs are nowhere near it. We don't have the luxury to carry Cam Guthrie while he gets his fitness back. We lose a couple more games in this slump and finals may not be an option. He should do that in the VFL. It's no good looking at their tackle numbers even if they are good. We need midfielders who hunt the ball and get there before their opponent. I think we should try some of the VFL players now.

What other starting midfielder is averaging less than 18 touches a game? And when he is not butchering the ball himself he is getting torched on the spread - I know Parfitt is well below afl standard but at least he puts some effort in defensively.

 

[CatToTheFuture]

You could even go more recently.

2014 - Maybe Jake Kolodjashnij makes it, but it just sucks that we got the 'dud brother'; as young Kade looks like a star in waiting.

2017 - Jack Henry & Tom Stewart might be okay players with some development, but they're not blue chip talents like Griffin Logue.

Much less Jack Scrimshaw, who Zach Guthrie will NEVER be in the same post-code of as a player. The talent gap is just too big.

2018 - We might be able to develop Gryan Miers into a serviceable footballer...but Jaidyn Stephenson is just a different level. You go that high in the draft for a reason.

2020 - We all like Max Holmes, he's got some great athletic traits...but until we can get to the top of the draft and pick our version of Will Phillips, Dylan Stephens, or Jye Caldwell, it's hard to see us having a future star.

I will call you put on one thing - not everyone liked Max Holmes when we drafted him

 

[And_ROOS]

I will call you put on one thing - not everyone liked Max Holmes when we drafted him

I thought people were pretty big on Miers, didn't he kick 6 in his u18 Grand Final? And then his first season for us was great.

 

[CatToTheFuture]

I thought people were pretty big on Miers, didn't he kick 6 in his u18 Grand Final? And then his first season for us was great.

Yeah that too. Looked like a good roughie. The low expectations helped his reputation

 

[The_Koulouriotis_Fan]

I thought people were pretty big on Miers, didn't he kick 6 in his u18 Grand Final? And then his first season for us was great.

Maybe but he was the whipping boy for a lot of people after his first year and the gloss wore off. Used to sit behind some fans who couldn’t wait to hurl insults at him.

The kicking action didn’t help, but most people fear what they don’t understand