Traded Chad Wingard [traded with future 3rd to Hawthorn for Burton, #15, #35 and future 4th]

[BRWB]

Im saying Sydney got what we could offer them. If he wants out he will go. And they will take the best offer.

The idea that he is worth 2 x 1st round is just bat shit crazy. He's not even worth a 1st and a 2nd.

Can any point to his best game? 2014? 2015? How long does a player get to retain their value?

As an FYI, Mitchell's best game was in the Grand Final a few weeks before we got him.

If Port decide to be difficult they can hang on to him for another year then he walks. And they will get nothing at all if there is a Free Agent they are interested in.

M8 doubt many think 15 cuts it. If he chooses Hawks then Id imagine Hawks encourage him to wait for FA. Otherwise Hawks may have to do some sort of deal to move up. Say Hawks first rd picks this and next yr to Saints for p4 and maybe change. No real incentive to trade Wingard early unless Port can get high into this draft.

Personally cant understand why Port are even fielding offers on him. Seems dumb list management.

 

[HairyO]

M8 doubt many think 15 cuts it. If he chooses Hawks then Id imagine Hawks encourage him to wait for FA. Otherwise Hawks may have to do some sort of deal to move up. Say Hawks first rd picks this and next yr to Saints for p4 and maybe change. No real incentive to trade Wingard early unless Port can get high into this draft.

Personally cant understand why Port are even fielding offers on him. Seems dumb list management.

Or as I said, they are worried about him going FA next year for nothing, if they have their own FA target. Better to get compo now and get him out the door and off the books now, than lose him next year.

People tend to think about the here and now. Smart clubs are looking 2, 3, 4 and even 5 years ahead.

 

[HairyO]

Oh man, you have no idea of the situation do you? Best you sit this one out.

In a couple of weeks we will know. Im happy to return regardless. If he goes for 15 and something insignificant will you return?

 

[BRWB]

Or as I said, they are worried about him going FA next year for nothing, if they have their own FA target. Better to get compo now and get him out the door and off the books now, than lose him next year.

People tend to think about the here and now. Smart clubs are looking 2, 3, 4 and even 5 years ahead.

Yeah just can't see that being an issue. if it was, Id rather just pay Chad the extra cash and not lose him at all or at worsr if he is RFA and match to force a trade.

 

[Adz2332]

Or as I said, they are worried about him going FA next year for nothing, if they have their own FA target. Better to get compo now and get him out the door and off the books now, than lose him next year.

People tend to think about the here and now. Smart clubs are looking 2, 3, 4 and even 5 years ahead.

hes also a RESTRICTED free agent so walking for nothing wont happen either

 

[YKIMS]

We got Rockliff and Motlop for free, and from all reports we will be getting Lycett for the same. Watts was an understandable roll of the dice by the club in a weak draft.

Polec wants a contract he simply isn’t worth, so we are trading him for assets. If the reports of Wingard wanting a million a year are true then he isn’t worth anywhere near that based on his output over the last three years, so we are exploring what we might be able to get in return.

Trade players for draft picks, recruit free agents for nothing. It’s highly effective list management strategy.

Well you didn't get any of those guys for free, and Lycett won't be either.

The real cost was just under 20% of your salary cap (and a 2nd Round pick) to have Rockliff, Motlop and Watts on your books, as you overpaid massively above their market worth to get them to the club, the same way you were able to win the services of Ryder and Dixon by paying more than any club in the country was willing to offer them. Yes Ryder and Dixon had connections at your club but anyone who believes it wasn't the coin they were offered needs a reality check - $800k pa at the time was music to both their ears, Dixon isn't worth two-thirds of that money but Ryder is worth every penny.

Watts was an upgrade on Brett Eddy, who came in after Schulz retired. Eddy was a fail, but in Watts they received a formerly highly touted junior for a 2nd rounder who could fill a role far better than Eddy could and they hoped he could fulfil some of that former promise.

Lycett is in the top 10 paid earners at West Coast, so he'll likely cost you in the region of $600k pa - likely more if he wins a premiership tomorrow, as his manager will be asking for more for a Premiership ruckman. That will tip the scales over the 20% mark salary cap-wise for those three free agents (and Watts) you mentioned alone.

You'll have guys like Wines, SPP, Howard, Marshall, Houston and DBJ all demanding hefty pay increases before too long, while guys like Boak, Gray, Westhoff, Ebert, Pittard, Jonas and Hartlett are already chewing up a fair chunk of remaining cap space - which explains why they would be looking to now shop some of those names around.

From the outside, it looks like Port went all out and paid overs (salary-wise) with those signings last year to put the icing on the cake and fill their books to the brim while they believed they were well and truly within their "window". Now they can see it didn't quite work (in the first year mind you, it should never have been expected to work in the first year anyway - players need time to gel into their new system, which reeks of unrealistic expectations on the administrative side of things), they appear to be throwing the baby out with the bathwater (while Kochy is holding the mic anyway) and reloading (read semi-rebuild).

It just bemuses me that they would actively shop out talented players under the age of 25, who are still yet to reach their peak, in the hope of obtaining potentially similarly talented players that will take years to reach the same level - when the core of your senior players will no longer be around.

If you're going to throw out all the seemingly well laid out plans of the last 5 years recruitment-wise, without giving it the time it needs to come together, you're going to be in for a long period of suffering.

IMO the coaching is the real issue at Port anyway, that list is choc full of talent but some of the coaching I've seen the last 2-3 years has been borderline amateurish.

Just remember nothing comes free. I agree with most of the rest of your post though

 

[rainwizard39]

In a couple of weeks we will know. Im happy to return regardless. If he goes for 15 and something insignificant will you return?

You'll see me on the news beating up Ports list manager if he went for that.

 

[Moonshift]

Or as I said, they are worried about him going FA next year for nothing, if they have their own FA target. Better to get compo now and get him out the door and off the books now, than lose him next year.

People tend to think about the here and now. Smart clubs are looking 2, 3, 4 and even 5 years ahead.

You seem to have serious difficulties understanding something very basic.

Tom Mitchell was uncontracted.
Chad Wingard is contracted.

Sydney were directly facing the prospect of losing Mitchell for nothing, and they were further incentivized to trade him because their cap was full and cola was being adjusted.
With Port, they'd be choosing between one more year of Chad Wingard, then a first round compensation pick the following year, likely to be much better than pick 14, and your pathetic offer of pick 14 alone.

Even your fellow Hawthorn supporters can see you're clueless on this situation. It would be wise of you to swallow your pride and stop.

 

[Hawker55]

If I have learned one thing over the years, it's that some bloke on BigFooty generally knows exactly how trading works and will get the melts if their opinion is treated as anything other than hearsay based on the 5% of what's actually happening in terms of talks that they may be aware of.

 

[Buzzasto DaSilva]

Wingard worth 2 first rounders? That is absolutely crazy. Last time he was an All-Australian, Hird was a coach and Tony Abbott was still the Prime Minister.

He is a very good player and worth around pick 10, but boy- he is being overvalued. Feel a bit sorry for him, as I think he could have been the best player in the AFL and won a Brownlow, but his talent was messed up by his coach who is a complete imbecile.

 

[Scotland]

If pick 15 is the going rate for Chad Wingard then I'm up for paying overs.

 

[Moonshift]

Wingard worth 2 first rounders? That is absolutely crazy. Last time he was an All-Australian, Hird was a coach and Tony Abbott was still the Prime Minister.

He is a very good player and worth around pick 10, but boy- he is being overvalued. Feel a bit sorry for him, as I think he could have been the best player in the AFL and won a Brownlow, but his talent was messed up by his coach who is a complete imbecile.

Stephen Coniglio has made the All-Australian team a total of 0 times despite being the same age. Hell, before this year, Whitfield had 0 All-Australians. I guess they're both worth a measly pick 10?

Just because Wingard hasn't been at his absolute best for the last 3 years doesn't mean he hasn't been a very good player, nor does it undo the fact that he's capable of reaching his 2015 heights.

Jaeger O'Meara played 0 games for two years thanks to a bad knee, had no contract and Hawthorn not only had to pay pick 10, but a second round pick on top of that to satisfy the Gold Coast. Why was he so expensive? It's because Hawthorn valued him on what he was CAPABLE of. The exact same principle will apply to Wingard, ESPECIALLY with a contract.

 

[OneGreatClub]

Stephen Coniglio has made the All-Australian team a total of 0 times despite being the same age. Hell, before this year, Whitfield had 0 All-Australians. I guess they're both worth a measly pick 10?

Just because Wingard hasn't been at his absolute best for the last 3 years doesn't mean he hasn't been a very good player, nor does it undo the fact that he's capable of reaching his 2015 heights.

Jaeger O'Meara played 0 games for two years thanks to a bad knee, had no contract and Hawthorn not only had to pay pick 10, but a second round pick on top of that to satisfy the Gold Coast. Why was he so expensive? It's because Hawthorn valued him on what he was CAPABLE of. The exact same principle will apply to Wingard, ESPECIALLY with a contract.

Someone talking sense

 

[HairyO]

Stephen Coniglio has made the All-Australian team a total of 0 times despite being the same age. Hell, before this year, Whitfield had 0 All-Australians. I guess they're both worth a measly pick 10?

Just because Wingard hasn't been at his absolute best for the last 3 years doesn't mean he hasn't been a very good player, nor does it undo the fact that he's capable of reaching his 2015 heights.

Jaeger O'Meara played 0 games for two years thanks to a bad knee, had no contract and Hawthorn not only had to pay pick 10, but a second round pick on top of that to satisfy the Gold Coast. Why was he so expensive? It's because Hawthorn valued him on what he was CAPABLE of. The exact same principle will apply to Wingard, ESPECIALLY with a contract.

Wingard has been injured the last 3 years?

 

[Buzzasto DaSilva]

Stephen Coniglio has made the All-Australian team a total of 0 times despite being the same age. Hell, before this year, Whitfield had 0 All-Australians. I guess they're both worth a measly pick 10?

Just because Wingard hasn't been at his absolute best for the last 3 years doesn't mean he hasn't been a very good player, nor does it undo the fact that he's capable of reaching his 2015 heights.

Jaeger O'Meara played 0 games for two years thanks to a bad knee, had no contract and Hawthorn not only had to pay pick 10, but a second round pick on top of that to satisfy the Gold Coast. Why was he so expensive? It's because Hawthorn valued him on what he was CAPABLE of. The exact same principle will apply to Wingard, ESPECIALLY with a contract.

Not sure what Coniglio or Whitfield have to do with your argument?

Is Rob Murphy worth two first rounders because he too made the 2015 All-Australian team? Or three first rounders because he was the captain?

 

[Jibroni]

Stephen Coniglio has made the All-Australian team a total of 0 times despite being the same age. Hell, before this year, Whitfield had 0 All-Australians. I guess they're both worth a measly pick 10?

Jaeger O'Meara played 0 games for two years thanks to a bad knee, had no contract and Hawthorn not only had to pay pick 10, but a second round pick on top of that to satisfy the Gold Coast. Why was he so expensive? It's because Hawthorn valued him on what he was CAPABLE of. The exact same principle will apply to Wingard, ESPECIALLY with a contract.

Because fully fit O'Meara is a far better footballer than Wingard.

Hawks clearly knew they could get his body right he would be worth the trade. Wingard has no injury concerns but I would describe him as a wasted talent / very inconsistent.

 

[Buzzasto DaSilva]

Because fully fit O'Meara is a far better footballer than Wingard.

Hawks clearly knew they could get his body right he would be worth the trade. Wingard has no injury concerns but I would describe him as a wasted talent whois very inconsistent.

And I blame Hinkley for this. Not Wingard. Has an excellent attitude, but the transformation process will be enormous for whoever is tasked with turning him around.

 

[Jibroni]

And I blame Hinkley for this. Not Wingard. Has an excellent attitude, but the transformation process will be enormous for whoever is tasked with turning him around.

Personally since he place more ink on his arms; he isn't the same player

 

[OnceKicked50]

Stephen Coniglio has made the All-Australian team a total of 0 times despite being the same age. Hell, before this year, Whitfield had 0 All-Australians. I guess they're both worth a measly pick 10?

Just because Wingard hasn't been at his absolute best for the last 3 years doesn't mean he hasn't been a very good player, nor does it undo the fact that he's capable of reaching his 2015 heights.

Jaeger O'Meara played 0 games for two years thanks to a bad knee, had no contract and Hawthorn not only had to pay pick 10, but a second round pick on top of that to satisfy the Gold Coast. Why was he so expensive? It's because Hawthorn valued him on what he was CAPABLE of. The exact same principle will apply to Wingard, ESPECIALLY with a contract.

Contract is irrelevant now dude. Port have clearly shopped him. Remember, originally Wingard spoke openly that he didn't want to leave. It's an untenable situation and he will leave the club. Port have in a way shot themselves in the foot here.

In the end, it appears there may be three suitors for him, Dogs, Hawks and Saints. If either of the Saints or Dogs offer up their first pick, that is fair in my eyes.

As for the Hawks, you would think our first and a second would be fair.

 

[Moonshift]

Not sure what Coniglio or Whitfield have to do with your argument?

Is Rob Murphy worth two first rounders because he too made the 2015 All-Australian team? Or three first rounders because he was the captain?

This is some deflection and strawman. You literally justified Wingard's value on the trade table based on his absence from the All-Australian team:

Wingard worth 2 first rounders? That is absolutely crazy. Last time he was an All-Australian, Hird was a coach and Tony Abbott was still the Prime Minister.

He is a very good player and worth around pick 10, but boy- he is being overvalued. Feel a bit sorry for him, as I think he could have been the best player in the AFL and won a Brownlow, but his talent was messed up by his coach who is a complete imbecile.

Because fully fit O'Meara is a far better footballer than Wingard.

Hawks clearly knew they could get his body right he would be worth the trade. Wingard has no injury concerns but I would describe him as a wasted talent / very inconsistent.

Based on what? Your opinion?

Even when O'Meara was at his best playing for the Gold Coast, he never made All-Australian, nor did he kick 50 goals a year as a small forward, or replicate the equivalent statistics for a midfielder. You have absolutely no basis for stating O'Meara is a "far better footballer" than Wingard.

 

[Moonshift]

Contract is irrelevant now dude. Port have clearly shopped him. Remember, originally Wingard spoke openly that he didn't want to leave. It's an untenable situation and he will leave the club. Port have in a way shot themselves in the foot here.

Yes, I'm sure you know everything that's going on behind the scenes to the point where everything is clear.

 

[WWSD]

Yes, I'm sure you know everything that's going on behind the scenes to the point where everything is clear.

Hawthorn can just get Wingard next year as a free agent.

Easy.

 

[OnceKicked50]

Yes, I'm sure you know everything that's going on behind the scenes to the point where everything is clear.

Shit post dude. Why bother going on BF if you are going to revert to this ?

It is clear Port have told him to explore his options, how could you say otherwise?

It is also clear through his social media that Wingard originally stated he had no plans to leave Port. Yet, now he is meeting with Vic clubs.

Based on this, it is also reasonable to conclude, whilst not impossible, there would be a significant strain on the relationship between player and club if he stays.

Further, lets not forget he is a restricted free agent next year and Port might be nervous he requests to leave. Especially when a year prior they put him in the shop window.

Port have weakened their trading position because they shopped him. He didn't ask to leave.

 

[Moonshift]

Hawthorn can just get Wingard next year as a free agent.

Easy.

I mean, if Port don't match, sure. If he's mulling over offers now, he'd probably consider a trade right now more appetizing though.

Shit post dude. Why bother going on BF if you are going to revert to this ?

It is clear Port have told him to explore his options, how could you say otherwise?

It is also clear through his social media that Wingard originally stated he had no plans to leave Port. Yet, now he is meeting with Vic clubs.

Based on this, it is also reasonable to conclude, whilst not impossible, there would be a significant strain on the relationship between player and club if he stays.

Further, lets not forget he is a restricted free agent next year and Port might be nervous he requests to leave. Especially when a year prior they put him in the shop window.

Port have weakened their trading position because they shopped him. He didn't ask to leave.

Why do on BF, make a bunch of baseless claims, then state it's all clear?

I'll humor you. Show me conclusive evidence Port told him to look elsewhere. Show me conclusive evidence Port's hand on the trade table is handicapped based on their actions up to this point. Show me conclusive evidence there would be "significant strain" on the relationship between Wingard and Port.

You remind me of someone I know, who hears one thing in the media, then immediately assumes "everything is clear".

 

[OnceKicked50]

I mean, if Port don't match, sure. If he's mulling over offers now, he'd probably consider a trade right now more appetizing though.

Why do on BF, make a bunch of baseless claims, then state it's all clear?

I'll humor you. Show me conclusive evidence Port told him to look elsewhere. Show me conclusive evidence Port's hand on the trade table is handicapped based on their actions up to this point. Show me conclusive evidence there would be "significant strain" on the relationship between Wingard and Port.

You remind me of someone I know, who hears one thing in the media, then immediately assumes "everything is clear".

It's pointless having a conversation with you mate. You play the man and you seemingly like to think your brashness gives you credibility. It looks sad dude.

I stand by my points. And I stand by you are a very sad, sad person. Good luck with that mate.