Changes for Perth

[Phone]

no doubt siddle fluked the 6fer that and his past two innings for me have "usual buisness". But there's absolutely no point dropping Siddle for Perth, and then bringing him back for the two G's. That does no-one good. Not the player who comes in and who is bowling thinking he has to take a wicket every ball or else he'll be dropped non for Siddle whose confidence will be wrecked.

And further more there's no point dropping him for Hilf or any of the other seamers currently on the round-a-bout. Either drop Siddle for the rest of the series for someone 'new' like McKay, Swan or Copeland etc or don't bother. There's the two options. Simple as.

Of course if MJ was actually dropped properly we might not be having this argument....

 

[eddiesmith]

In a heartbeat.

lol, shows the whole hypocrisy of the anti Siddle argument

But I suppose everyone will ignore the fact that if not for Peter Siddle, Australia would be 2-0 down now and no hope in hell of regaining the Ashes

 

[DeadlyAkkuret]

That 6 wicket haul is like the 2010 version of Hodge's 200.

 

[Phone]

Closer to MJ's 8fer imo.

 

[happy_eagle]

Siddle hasn't really got any tricks
We really need to try and work our bowling line-up in the mould that is used to be

Mcgrath - A bowler that will continuously bowl a straight line and length, and forces batsmen into mistakes. Hilfenhaus is probably the closest in this mould

Warne - Obviously we are not going to have a Shane Warne any time soon, but we need aggressive spinners who take wickets and toss the ball up, rather than worrying about holding down one end. Shame about Krejza, but hopefully Beer can be aggressive

Lee - A pure pace bowler, whose main feature was his pace, and his ability to get wickets with the new ball. Kind of adds a polish to the attack, and i think at the moment we have Siddle, Johnson and to a lesser extent Bollinger, who all try and play this role.

Gillespie/Flemming - These bowlers worked on moving the ball, and allowing for variation with both the new and old ball. This is where we drop the ball largely. We do not have anyone in our 11 that is capable of moving a ball, which makes our bowling attack predictable and easy to score off. I wouldn't know much about our swing bowling stocks, but I think Mckay can move the ball around alright


I think that's the way we should set up our bowling attack
1 Agressive pace bowler - from Johnson, Siddle, Bollinger
1 Swing bowler - We don't appear to have any
1 Agressive spinner - As above
1 Stock line bowler - Hilfenhaus

The reason that often our bowlers look second rate, is that they don't have the support at the other end. A good bowling partnership is under-rated. Someone like Hilfenhaus would get more wickets, if he had a swing bowler at the other end doing all sorts of things. Similarly, aggressive spinners can work well in tandem with aggressive pace bowlers (Lee and Warne for eg)

 

[Damon_3388]

Damien Fleming just said on Inside Cricket that Beer is "statistically the best spinner in Australia"

Sheffield Shield 2010/11

Nathan Hauritz (New South Wales)
14 Wickets
26.07 Average
52.3 Strike Rate
2.98 Economy Rate

Xavier Doherty (Tasmania)
11 Wickets
27.45 Average
68.7 Strike Rate
2.39 Economy Rate

Michael Beer (Western Australia)
11 Wickets
39.45 Average
75.7 Strike Rate
3.12 Economy Rate

Steven Smith (New South Wales)
10 Wickets
31.20 Average
49.5 Strike Rate
3.78 Economy Rate

Aaron O'Brien (South Australia)
10 Wickets
44.40 Average
89.0 Strike Rate
2.99 Economy Rate

Steve O'Keefe (New South Wales)
7 Wickets
16.42 Average
32.5 Strike Rate
3.02 Economy Rate

Jon Holland (Victoria)
6 Wickets
64.66 Average
112.1 Strike Rate
3.45 Economy Rate

Jason Krejza (Tasmania)
4 Wickets
24.50 Average
40.5 Strike Rate
3.62 Economy Rate

Cameron Boyce (Queensland)
4 Wickets
47.25 Average
102.0 Strike Rate
2.77 Economy Rate

Bryce McGain (Victoria)
1 Wickets
117.00 Average
192.0 Strike Rate
3.65 Economy Rate

Obviously stats aren't everything, but I'd have Hauritz, Doherty, Smith and O'Keefe ahead of Beer at the moment.

 

[The 747]

From the bits I hear it seems Siddle will be 12th man in Perth then back for the Boxing Day Test (hope not).

Hilfenhaus will be the into the wind bowler I'd imagine.

Hopefully they look at blokes like Copeland soon.

Every bloke who doesn't play in this series sees his stocks go up until he plays.

So Siddle over Bollinger was an outrage - until Siddle took 6 wickets and then MJ playing was an outrage. Then Bollinger rocked up half fit and fat and bowled 120's and bring MJ back. And the Hilf was rested and suddenly he is the saviour. And now everyone seems to think Copeland is going to come in and save us. Bollinger forgotten, Siddle being picked is an outrage etc....

Fact is none of them are world class right now. And MJ aside they all get injured looking at 3 games in a row which is why we are rotating them. The one thing Siddle has in his favour is he is younger than the other jabroni's we are playing.

But assuming we don't win in Perth, Siddle's stocks (and Dougeh's and Copeland's) will rise by virtue of not playing.

 

[Tom12]

Every bloke who doesn't play in this series sees his stocks go up until he plays.

So Siddle over Bollinger was an outrage - until Siddle took 6 wickets and then MJ playing was an outrage. Then Bollinger rocked up half fit and fat and bowled 120's and bring MJ back. And the Hilf was rested and suddenly he is the saviour. And now everyone seems to think Copeland is going to come in and save us. Bollinger forgotten, Siddle being picked is an outrage etc....

Fact is none of them are world class right now. And MJ aside they all get injured looking at 3 games in a row which is why we are rotating them. The one thing Siddle has in his favour is he is younger than the other jabroni's we are playing.

But assuming we don't win in Perth, Siddle's stocks (and Dougeh's and Copeland's) will rise by virtue of not playing.

Good post, makes alot of sense.
Alot of calling for needless rotation that only seems right at the time because the assumption is being made the included bowler will influence the game. This hasn't been the case yet, bar Siddle in the first test, first innings.

 

[eddiesmith]

That 6 wicket haul is like the 2010 version of Hodge's 200.

Or Hughes twin centuries...

 

[Damon_3388]

Vitriolic Mark Waugh statements proven false

Still, I heard Damien Fleming with my own ears say that Beer is "statistically the best spinner in Australia", so there's no escaping that dud call

 

[The Convert]

Damien Fleming just said on Inside Cricket that Beer is "statistically the best spinner in Australia"

Sheffield Shield 2010/11

Nathan Hauritz (New South Wales)
14 Wickets
26.07 Average
52.3 Strike Rate
2.98 Economy Rate

Xavier Doherty (Tasmania)
11 Wickets
27.45 Average
68.7 Strike Rate
2.39 Economy Rate

Michael Beer (Western Australia)
11 Wickets
39.45 Average
75.7 Strike Rate
3.12 Economy Rate

Steven Smith (New South Wales)
10 Wickets
31.20 Average
49.5 Strike Rate
3.78 Economy Rate

Aaron O'Brien (South Australia)
10 Wickets
44.40 Average
89.0 Strike Rate
2.99 Economy Rate

Steve O'Keefe (New South Wales)
7 Wickets
16.42 Average
32.5 Strike Rate
3.02 Economy Rate

Jon Holland (Victoria)
6 Wickets
64.66 Average
112.1 Strike Rate
3.45 Economy Rate

Jason Krejza (Tasmania)
4 Wickets
24.50 Average
40.5 Strike Rate
3.62 Economy Rate

Cameron Boyce (Queensland)
4 Wickets
47.25 Average
102.0 Strike Rate
2.77 Economy Rate

Obviously stats aren't everything, but I'd have Hauritza, Doherty, Smith and O'Keefe ahead of Beer at the moment.

Normally do not mind Fleming but if the above is true and he said that Beer was statistically in front then he is a goose. Obviously he is practicing to be a selector

 

[The Convert]

I get your gist, but not quite correct.

Yes, the amount of good cricketers produced by NSW should far exceed an SA or Tasmania, but the amount of top class cricketers that should make an elite 11 doesn't exactly work that way. The playing field actually pans out a bit because you can only fit 11 in each state squad so the talent *should* come together at the top.

It's a bit like you look at national soccer/football teams, once you get to the elite level, the level of the national teams tend to follow participation rates, but not directly proportional as you would think. Participation rates give you depth, but not top shelf excellence which is a factor of a whole lot of things such as quality of equipment, quality of infrastructure, quality of coaching, your home ground weather conditions is surprisingly a pretty large factor.

Fair comment but still more to draw from so....

 

[ahhhhhh]

Damien Fleming just said on Inside Cricket that Beer is "statistically the best spinner in Australia"

Sheffield Shield 2010/11

Nathan Hauritz (New South Wales)
14 Wickets
26.07 Average
52.3 Strike Rate
2.98 Economy Rate

Xavier Doherty (Tasmania)
11 Wickets
27.45 Average
68.7 Strike Rate
2.39 Economy Rate

Michael Beer (Western Australia)
11 Wickets
39.45 Average
75.7 Strike Rate
3.12 Economy Rate

Steven Smith (New South Wales)
10 Wickets
31.20 Average
49.5 Strike Rate
3.78 Economy Rate

Aaron O'Brien (South Australia)
10 Wickets
44.40 Average
89.0 Strike Rate
2.99 Economy Rate

Steve O'Keefe (New South Wales)
7 Wickets
16.42 Average
32.5 Strike Rate
3.02 Economy Rate

Jon Holland (Victoria)
6 Wickets
64.66 Average
112.1 Strike Rate
3.45 Economy Rate

Jason Krejza (Tasmania)
4 Wickets
24.50 Average
40.5 Strike Rate
3.62 Economy Rate

Cameron Boyce (Queensland)
4 Wickets
47.25 Average
102.0 Strike Rate
2.77 Economy Rate

Obviously stats aren't everything, but I'd have Hauritza, Doherty, Smith and O'Keefe ahead of Beer at the moment.

Where you getting those stats from mate? Way off...
http://stats.espncricinfo.com/ausdo...er.html?class=4;host=2;id=2010/11;type=season

 

[ahhhhhh]

O'Keefe looks the best of that lot, if you compare wickets taken to matches played and average

 

[Sman-21]

seems like we might aswell just give warnie the selectors job.

Seems any name he drops the selectors play asap.
He mentioned smith at 1 time an straight away he was into the 20-20s an then 1day team.
He mentions beer then straight away hes into the team.

Sure he might be too busy adding to his legend status
but the guys who are sposed to be doing it have no idea an just sit around waiting to hear what warnie says.

 

[Phone]

Where you getting those stats from mate? Way off...
http://stats.espncricinfo.com/ausdo...er.html?class=4;host=2;id=2010/11;type=season

His stats were solely taken from Shield matches whereas as those contain Shield matches as well as other FC matches like the ones against England

 

[SouthSwans]

If I was a selector;

1 Phil HUGHES
2 Michael HUSSEY
3 Shane WATSON
4 Michael CLARKE (if fit)
5 NEW PLAYER (White/Khawaja/Hodge/Ferguson/Dussey/Klinger/Marsh/McDonald/Smith/Cowan/Bailey/Jaques/Rogers/Cosgrove)
6 Ricky PONTING
7 Brad HADDIN
8 Steve O'KEEFE/Nathan HAURITZ
9 Brett LEE/Shaun TAIT
10 Ryan HARRIS
11 Trent COPELAND

 

[ahhhhhh]

His stats were solely taken from Shield matches whereas as those contain Shield matches as well as other FC matches like the ones against England

Wouldn't they have more bearing if they were against a world class batting attack, compared to South Australia...

 

[Damon_3388]

Where you getting those stats from mate? Way off...
http://stats.espncricinfo.com/ausdo...er.html?class=4;host=2;id=2010/11;type=season

They're stats from Sheffield Shield games alone (hence the "Sheffield Shield 2010/11" title), found here. Even on the stats you presented, Hauritz still possesses a much better average, strike rate and economy rate than Beer:

First Class Matches 2010/11

Michael Beer (Western Australia)
16 Wickets
40.06 Average
67.3 Strike Rate
3.57 Economy Rate

Nathan Hauritz (New South Wales)
14 Wickets
26.07 Average
52.3 Strike Rate
2.98 Economy Rate

Xavier Doherty (Tasmania/Australia)
14 Wickets
43.42 Average
86.5 Strike Rate
3.01 Economy Rate

Aaron O'Brien (South Australia)
13 Wickets
42.76 Average
79.7 Strike Rate
3.21 Economy Rate

Steven Smith (New South Wales/Australia A)
12 Wickets
35.83 Average
54.7 Strike Rate
3.92 Economy Rate

Steve O'Keefe (New South Wales/Australia A)
11 Wickets
18.45 Average
33.8 Strike Rate
3.27 Economy Rate

Jon Holland (Victoria)
8 Wickets
57.87 Average
100.6 Strike Rate
3.45 Economy Rate

Jason Krejza (Tasmania)
4 Wickets
24.50 Average
40.5 Strike Rate
3.62 Economy Rate

David Hussey (Victoria)
4 Wickets
38.25 Average
74.0 Strike Rate
3.10 Economy Rate

Cameron Boyce (Queensland)
4 Wickets
47.25 Average
102.0 Strike Rate
2.77 Economy Rate

Michael Swart (Western Australia)
2 Wickets
26.50 Average
30.0 Strike Rate
5.30 Economy Rate

Luke Pomersbach (Western Australia)
1 Wicket
32.00 Average
42.0 Strike Rate
4.57 Economy Rate

Tom Cooper (South Australia)
1 Wicket
38.00 Average
90.0 Strike Rate
2.53 Economy Rate

Bryce McGain (Victoria)
1 Wickets
117.00 Average
192.0 Strike Rate
3.65 Economy Rate

Marcus North (Western Australia/Australia)
1 Wicket
138.00 Average
282.0 Strike Rate
2.93 Economy Rate

Any way you slice it, Hauritz has been putting up good figures for a spinner by any standards, doing everything asked of him (even went above and beyond by scoring a century with the bat!), yet still gets overlooked for some Johnny-come-lately in Beer.

Wouldn't they have more bearing if they were against a world class batting attack, compared to South Australia...

What's the bloody point of the Sheffield Shield competition if producing good form in it (a la Hauritz since going back to NSW) is meaningless? You can only play against the opposition you're given. It's not Hauritz's fault that New South Wales don't have a tour match against an England XI.

 

[HSSB]

Damien Fleming just said on Inside Cricket that Beer is "statistically the best spinner in Australia"

Sheffield Shield 2010/11

Nathan Hauritz (New South Wales)
14 Wickets
26.07 Average
52.3 Strike Rate
2.98 Economy Rate

Xavier Doherty (Tasmania)
11 Wickets
27.45 Average
68.7 Strike Rate
2.39 Economy Rate

Michael Beer (Western Australia)
11 Wickets
39.45 Average
75.7 Strike Rate
3.12 Economy Rate

Steven Smith (New South Wales)
10 Wickets
31.20 Average
49.5 Strike Rate
3.78 Economy Rate

Aaron O'Brien (South Australia)
10 Wickets
44.40 Average
89.0 Strike Rate
2.99 Economy Rate

Steve O'Keefe (New South Wales)
7 Wickets
16.42 Average
32.5 Strike Rate
3.02 Economy Rate

Jon Holland (Victoria)
6 Wickets
64.66 Average
112.1 Strike Rate
3.45 Economy Rate

Jason Krejza (Tasmania)
4 Wickets
24.50 Average
40.5 Strike Rate
3.62 Economy Rate

Cameron Boyce (Queensland)
4 Wickets
47.25 Average
102.0 Strike Rate
2.77 Economy Rate

Obviously stats aren't everything, but I'd have Hauritz, Doherty, Smith and O'Keefe ahead of Beer at the moment.

Ahhh **** I knew I forgot to watch something tonight