Strategy Changes & Pre-match Discussion - GRAND FINAL vs. Brisbane MCG, 2:30pm Sat 30/09

[sr36]

Ugh…

I agree, but at the same time this is how I'd rank our blokes as most likely to succeed if we want someone to slot straight in to McStays role:

Howe

Cox/Kreuger







Frampton

 

[frizzle]

Fly hasn't been adverse to trying something new, so it wouldnt surprise me to see someone like Pendles or Sidebottom start a FF in place of McStay.

I dont think we can afford to flex our backline, (as much as I'd love Framtpon to come in) it has been the pillar to our wins these last few weeks and the structure it creates allows us to defend a modest lead. Removing any of the key six pillars would be too detrimental and I dont see how moving Howe forward is enough to cover McStay to the value that Noble covers Howe.

If fit, I'd be bringing Adams in for McStay and having a lineup of the following:

FB: Quaynor, Moore, Howe
HB: Maynard, Murphy, Daicos
C: Daicos, DeGoey, Sidebottom
HF: Hill, Miochek, WHE
FF: Elliott, Pendlebury, Mccreery
FOL: Cameron, Crisp, Adams

Int: Cox, Markov, Mitchell, Lipinski
Sub: Ginnivan

Pendles is rather poor overhead at the best of times. Not sure that will bother the Brisbane defenders one bit.

 

[3 Characters Long]

Do we know if Payne will be playing for Brisbane yet? It'd be handy if he wasn't

 

[magpienato]

I mean, it’s the same thing lol. He’s not available was on the recent medical update

If he was out for the rest of the season they would have just said he's 'out for the season' don't you think? A few weeks from the 5th of September is just on the Grand Final so by the information we have available he should be ready to play if he passes the relevant fitness tests of course. But Frampton will and should get picked over him, but I would genuinely prefer an injured AJ40 over Kreuger if it came down to it.

 

[swoop42]

Players don’t come off for “shoulder awareness” in GFs though.

He might.

Psychosomatic issues were clearly in play for Kreuger at times during this season.

Not that I blame him given his history but I don't want to take that added risk (on top of actual injury) on GF day.

 

[Chameleon75]

The other reason that you might bring in Frampton is as a ruck and relive the glory days of Coxy as our full forward

 

[Didak Wine]

So you're going to go with the controversial move of swapping him with Elliott. Who are you playing as a tall?

Where did Elliott take mark of the year v carlton in the square? I meant as one of the forwards my man.

 

[Roverjg]

Some facts about Lions at MCG.
Played 59; Won 16; Drawn 1; Lost 42 - Half of their wins are against us
Played Pies at MCG; Won 8; Lost 4; Average winning margin 42 points
Pies Vis Lions; Won 4; Lost 8; Average winning margin 32 points
Lions have played at MCG 15 times since July 2015, winning only once vs Melbourne in 2022
Played twice at MCG in 2023 (1 point loss to Melbourne; 25 point loss to Hawks)
Played 4 times at MCG in 2022 (4 losses)

 

[RuFiO]

Mason Cox

46

Mason Cox

Age

33

Ht

211cm

Wt

110kg

Pos.

F/R

Career

Season

Last 5

D

8.7

2star

K

5.2

2star

HB

3.5

3star

M

4.0

4star

T

1.6

4star

G

1.2

4star

D

6.0

1star

K

3.0

1star

HB

3.0

2star

M

2.3

2star

T

0.3

1star

G

1.0

4star

D

9.0

3star

K

5.4

2star

HB

3.6

3star

M

2.6

3star

T

2.4

4star

G

1.8

5star

should be dropped for wearing an LA Kings jersey.

 

[RobJD]

People are seemingly losing their minds.

Selecting Kreuger would be like Melbourne going with Schache.....

and he's kicked 79 career goals.

Even then Melbourne didn't trust him enough to bring him on.

If Frampton comes in I would expect it would primarily be to spread the ruck load and allow both Cox and Cameron to spend more time forward and be less gassed when doing so.

I would anticipate Howe would start in defence if Frampton was included.

Frampton has more strings to his bow than Kreuger, more likely to get through the game and while he might be an average forward his 7 goals in 2023 still trumps the career 4 of Kreuger.

If we want to get crazy and go left field I'd rather McInnes as a leading forward with a better ground game and a greater ability to pressure the Lions defenders on the way out.

His VFL form at the end of the season was as good or better as Kreugers.

Frampton could replace Moore at FB - Moore to CHF/FF, interchanging with Howe as 3rd back. That would give Andrews a mobile player that would be a lot more difficult to match up on, means that Frampton could follow Daniher into the ruck (allowing Cameron and Cox to ensure that the Big O does a lot of running through the day). Would also like to see Neale get a bit of shoulder action like the Lions gave Nick Riewoldt when he was winged.

 

[sr36]

I'm hoping for Howe forward.

But I'm betting on the coaches going small and playing WHE forward. Our entries will be a combination of really quick when the defence isn't set and really slow when the defence is to allow us to get the rucks to the pack and bring the ball to ground for the smalls to attack. With chaos balls when the defence is set but we can't go slow.

 

[Gaben]

People are seemingly losing their minds.

Selecting Kreuger would be like Melbourne going with Schache.....

and he's kicked 79 career goals.

Even then Melbourne didn't trust him enough to bring him on.

If Frampton comes in I would expect it would primarily be to spread the ruck load and allow both Cox and Cameron to spend more time forward and be less gassed when doing so.

I would anticipate Howe would start in defence if Frampton was included.

Frampton has more strings to his bow than Kreuger, more likely to get through the game and while he might be an average forward his 7 goals in 2023 still trumps the career 4 of Kreuger.

If we want to get crazy and go left field I'd rather McInnes as a leading forward with a better ground game and a greater ability to pressure the Lions defenders on the way out.

His VFL form at the end of the season was as good or better as Kreugers.

Yeah, the more I think about it, the more I think Reef is the best option. Saves any disruption from moving other blokes around, he'll spend a lot of time as the 3rd tall while the resting ruckman is out there and he's more than capable of matching up on Lester or Gardiner. He had some great VFL games in the back half of the year - 4.1, 4.1, 3.1.

Frampton isn't the answer here, it'll be Tristan Walker all over again if he plays forward. And we've conceded under 60 points the last three games, blows my mind people want to completely disrupt the makeup of the backline to try and fix up an issue up the other end? Bringing in Frampton to play back, to try and fix an issue up front is just ludicrous. How about we leave our guaranteed strength as a guaranteed strength without bringing in a B grade journey man to play FB?

We can win this game with a makeshift forward line and a rock solid backline, I don't think we win with a cobbled together version of a backline and a forwardline.

 

[Apex36]

In fact, if the player is hoping to get to another club, you put a rod up their rear by telling them that unless 110% is given, the club will make any move very difficult next year.

As if you’d need to? No player in their right mind is going to half arse a grand final, regardless of where they intend to be the next year. Premierships elude 90% of the player base in their careers.

 

[brysie]

Hey lads not sure where to post this but heading to the grand final parade and are from out of town, wondering where the best place to park is or is it better to get public transport

I'd suggest public transport. You might be able to find a parking space at a train station and just train in from there.

Anything inner city is likely to result in some ridiculous fine, unless you're some kind of parking sign savant. I live in Richmond and Yarra City Council are some of the hungriest - it's almost like a competition between the inner city councils as to who can collect the most in parking fine revenue.

 

[Swooop]

Without having read all the pages of this thread, is Reef an option - is he fit / injured??

If he came in, we’d be that bit less top heavy compared to playing Krueger alongside Cameron and Cox.

Sort of guy he’d only need 6-10 possessions to kick a couple of goals.

Any chance at all?

 

[Lifelong Pie]

Without having read all the pages of this thread, is Reef an option - is he fit / injured??

If he came in, we’d be that bit less top heavy compared to playing Krueger alongside Cameron and Cox.

Sort of guy he’d only need 6-10 possessions to kick a couple of goals.

Any chance at all?

The more I think about it the more I like the idea of Reef coming in, I don't think it will happen but he has a lot of talent and was kicking heaps of goals at the end of the vfl season, shame he doesn't have any proven AFL form. I think it will be Frampton though and they will just hope he provides a contest

 

[No SPIN]

To me, playing Frampton as a forward because he's able to play other roles if things aren't going well is picking a team to lose less badly.

Alternatively - picking Frampton offers flexibility to fill holes and move incumbents to other positions and broaden our tactical weaponry. And that’s far more important IMO
.
Fly needs this flexibility - Playing Frampton in the Ruck:
allows Cameron or Cox to play significant time fwd.
Playing Frampton back :
allows : Howe or even Moore to play fwd.
Playing Frampton fwd:
to replace McStay enables stability in the preferred game plan.

We don’t get anywhere near the same amount of flexibility with any other single inclusion.

 

[Caztheconquerer]

Train it in pal

Don't drive

I'd suggest public transport. You might be able to find a parking space at a train station and just train in from there.

Anything inner city is likely to result in some ridiculous fine, unless you're some kind of parking sign savant. I live in Richmond and Yarra City Council are some of the hungriest - it's almost like a competition between the inner city councils as to who can collect the most in parking fine revenue.

Thanks lads, think by the sounds of it getting the train in to spencer street and going from there seems the best option

 

[swoop42]

Some facts about Lions at MCG.
Played 59; Won 16; Drawn 1; Lost 42 - Half of their wins are against us
Played Pies at MCG; Won 8; Lost 4; Average winning margin 42 points
Pies Vis Lions; Won 4; Lost 8; Average winning margin 32 points
Lions have played at MCG 15 times since July 2015, winning only once vs Melbourne in 2022
Played twice at MCG in 2023 (1 point loss to Melbourne; 25 point loss to Hawks)
Played 4 times at MCG in 2022 (4 losses)

The game this year against Melbourne is the one that matters and shows they're more than capable of winning a GF on the G despite the narrative.

Still glad we're playing them there rather than the Gabba or Marvel.

Hopefully the home ground is worth 2 goals minimum for us. That might be enough and the only difference between the two sides on the day.

 

[Swooop]

Alternatively - picking Frampton offers flexibility to fill holes and move incumbents to other positions and broaden our tactical weaponry. And that’s far more important IMO
.
Fly needs this flexibility - Playing Frampton in the Ruck:
allows Cameron or Cox to play significant time fwd.
Playing Frampton back :
allows : Howe or even Moore to play fwd.
Playing Frampton fwd:
to replace McStay enables stability in the preferred game plan.

We don’t get anywhere near the same amount of flexibility with any other single inclusion.

Yep, makes a lot of sense for sure.

 

[Gaspard]

If we had lost Murphy, Frampton would be the replacement we would have to go with. We have however, lost McStay. Kreuger is the player most similar. His injury baggage is well known, as is his willingness to contest. If we are looking for the same sort of team, then he is the man I would go with. This is on the understanding that he is currently at full fitness. It is risky, but not disruptive. If it fails, the small option is available if Ginnivan is the sub.

 

[sr36]

Alternatively - picking Frampton offers flexibility to fill holes and move incumbents to other positions and broaden our tactical weaponry. And that’s far more important IMO
.
Fly needs this flexibility - Playing Frampton in the Ruck:
allows Cameron or Cox to play significant time fwd.
Playing Frampton back :
allows : Howe or even Moore to play fwd.
Playing Frampton fwd:
to replace McStay enables stability in the preferred game plan.

We don’t get anywhere near the same amount of flexibility with any other single inclusion.

That flexibility is fools gold.

a) I'm hoping we don't go with a ruck as a full time forward - it's a possible option, but it's not a good one.

b) we don't need Frampton in the team to shift Howe forward. Brissy only play two tall forwards with one of them rucking for a chunk of the game. Frampton into the defence means we play either him or Murphy on one of their super slick smalls. I don't see why you'd add him to our defence. It's not like having Howe there to zone off a small to intercept and then use the footy with penetration. Frampton is really unlikely to exploit the mismatch to our advantage. It's just a dumb mismatch with Brissy being more likely to benefit from it

 

[Kes1984]

We are developing a habit of playing our nemisis in Grand Finals. The last 3 forms a trend. 2011 it was Geelong, 2018 the Eagles and now 2023 the Lions. Lost all H&A games in these years and finals up until now. We never get the "easy kill" do we? Always so ******* hard. I really don't know how we turn around a 6 goal and 4 goal loss. I hope McFly has a strategy or maybe just a couple of Aces up the sleeve somewhere!

St kilda says hi

 

[swoop42]

Not only have we lost McStay the injured Ash Johnson is very much the forgotten man.

While he would have entered the game with some reasonable doubts about his ability to deal with the pressure of a GF unlike Kreuger and Frampton he at least has some runs on the board when it comes genuinely impacting games as a tall forward at AFL level.

Hopefully Payne doesn't get up for Brisbane to soften the blow.

 

[Pendles!]

I genuinely don’t see a world where Krueger is picked. The risk vs reward just isn’t there.