Preview Changes: R5 2021 vs Fremantle

[1970crow]

That's on Nick's and the medical staff for getting it wrong. Not Lynch. They adjudicated Lynch fit after all.

We know that the reality is that all clubs trust the senior players to make the call as to whether they can still perform with the injury. He probably played well with worse afflictions as a 25 year old, but at his age it's time he realised. Hopefully he does the right thing this week or if he doesn't, he's dropped on form. Injured or omitted, it's his call.

 

[Slippery Pete]

The criticism (which is misguided) seems to be around two points:

1) Fogarty was gifted goals by midfielders up the ground. False. He worked hard for leads and took marks. His goals were not over the back goal square gimmies or cheap handball receives.

2) Fogarty hurts our defensive pressure. This is debatable but we are carrying at least 4 high pressure small forwards in the side with (currently) moderate to low goal output. These players are there precisely so our tall, low pressure forwards like Fogarty can be included in the side to increase scoring.

If you think Fogarty didn’t add value to that team yesterday you know absolutely less than nothing about the game of football.

 

[Jirkago75]

Why? Did you see the ease at which North exited the F50 today? Now imagine that’s an actual competent team with good setups behind the ball and damaging half backs. The speed at which teams will rebound with a Fog, Walker, Frilthorpeberg forward setup will give you whiplash.

Yes I did but he is better then Frampton and brings more goals. I’d try Fog and Walker as our tall forwards

 

[Murray2503]

Yes I did but he is better then Frampton and brings more goals. I’d try Fog and Walker as our tall forwards

The 2 tall forward (richmond structure) seems to be the best one that suits us. It's a matter of working out who are our two best tall forwards. Frampton is not one of them.

Walker through his current form is taking one of the spots for now. Who out of Thilthorpe, Himmelberg and Fogarty is the best option as the 2nd tall? I would be feel the club wants Thilthorpe to be the 2nd tall forward anf replace Walker as the main guy once he retires otherwise they massively stuffed up not taking McDonald. We do know that Fogarty is definitely not a midfielder so who out of Himmelberg and Fogarty is the best long term prospect?

Both players need to be given a run. I do know that playing Himmelberg in the SANFL is not helping him as he is clearly not happy about being there. I would give both players a decent run before they make any decisions to trade anyone. Then again one of one of the players may take the decision out of our hands and ask to be traded.

Playing all of Walker, Frampton, Lynch, Fogarty/Himmelberg is a recipe for disaster as the ball is walked out of our forward line. The other problem is that our smalls aren't performing so we have some major problems with our forward line at present.

The coaches need to look into whether our current setup is the best forward line that we can come up with from our entire squad? Are they missing something.

 

[Dewy006]

Yes I did but he is better then Frampton and brings more goals. I’d try Fog and Walker as our tall forwards

Sure, you could do that, but then who pinch hits for ROB in the ruck? they’re not gonna put Tex in there, our backline is already undersized let alone if we were to take someone out to pinch in the ruck. One of Berg, Frampton or preferably TT will always play.

 

[Geoffa32]

I would rather DMack in the team over Frampton.....

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[Vader]

Imagine if he could lay a tackle and get involved in general play too.
North players just stepped around him a lot.
The very good, and the very bad.

That's the thing... he's a one trick pony, but my God he's good at that one trick.

His trick is the ability to convert uncontested marks into goals, with an astounding accuracy rate - even more remarkable, given where he takes those kicks. I cannot think of a single player, in 30 years watching AFL football, who comes close to matching Fogarty's accuracy. The closest player I can think of is probably Tex Walker, with his ability to kick goals from 50+, but Fogarty's miss rate is less than half of Tex's. When it comes to his one trick, he's quite literally a once in a generation player (maybe even better than that).

The problem is that every other aspect of his game is below AFL standard. His work rate is poor (lack of repeat efforts), his ability to win contested possession (either contested marking or on the ground) is poor, and his defensive pressure is pathetic. Against most opposition, he costs us as many goals as he kicks, if not more. He is completely reliant upon taking uncontested marks, which just doesn't happen that often against quality opposition (North are not quality opposition).

He is, as you say both the very good, and the very bad (too many people here focus solely on the very good). He has one trick, which is truly outstanding - but it's only one trick. Players just don't make it in the AFL if their game isn't better rounded than Fogarty's.

 

[Geoffa32]

The 2 tall forward (richmond structure) seems to be the best one that suits us. It's a matter of working out who are our two best tall forwards. Frampton is not one of them.

Walker through his current form is taking one of the spots for now. Who out of Thilthorpe, Himmelberg and Fogarty is the best option as the 2nd tall? I would be feel the club wants Thilthorpe to be the 2nd tall forward anf replace Walker as the main guy once he retires otherwise they massively stuffed up not taking McDonald. We do know that Fogarty is definitely not a midfielder so who out of Himmelberg and Fogarty is the best long term prospect?

Both players need to be given a run. I do know that playing Himmelberg in the SANFL is not helping him as he is clearly not happy about being there. I would give both players a decent run before they make any decisions to trade anyone. Then again one of one of the players may take the decision out of our hands and ask to be traded.

Playing all of Walker, Frampton, Lynch, Fogarty/Himmelberg is a recipe for disaster as the ball is walked out of our forward line. The other problem is that our smalls aren't performing so we have some major problems with our forward line at present.

The coaches need to look into whether our current setup is the best forward line that we can come up with from our entire squad? Are they missing something.

Need to move Lynch out.

Tex is in rare form

Fog needs to develop, we are rebuilding not contending. Lynch's role is ideal for him to learn how to play up the ground and be a key forward. Develop into Tex 2.0.

Hberg, Tilthorpe (Frampton) need to provide Ruck coverage and be a key forward. Ideally this is Tilthorpe.


Lynch is the odd man out. Not in career best form and we need Fog to play.



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[Thylacinus]

Not sure why you would put Himmelberg in when he has perhaps been the worst performing tall in the whole squad this year.

I thought Himmelberg's SANFL game Saturday wasn't too bad. In fact it got better as the game progressed.

 

[Crow till I die]

That's the thing... he's a one trick pony, but my God he's good at that one trick.

His trick is the ability to convert uncontested marks into goals, with an astounding accuracy rate - even more remarkable, given where he takes those kicks. I cannot think of a single player, in 30 years watching AFL football, who comes close to matching Fogarty's accuracy. The closest player I can think of is probably Tex Walker, with his ability to kick goals from 50+, but Fogarty's miss rate is less than half of Tex's. When it comes to his one trick, he's quite literally a once in a generation player (maybe even better than that).

The problem is that every other aspect of his game is below AFL standard. His work rate is poor (lack of repeat efforts), his ability to win contested possession (either contested marking or on the ground) is poor, and his defensive pressure is pathetic. Against most opposition, he costs us as many goals as he kicks, if not more. He is completely reliant upon taking uncontested marks, which just doesn't happen that often against quality opposition (North are not quality opposition).

He is, as you say both the very good, and the very bad (too many people here focus solely on the very good). He has one trick, which is truly outstanding - but it's only one trick. Players just don't make it in the AFL if their game isn't better rounded than Fogarty's.

 

[adelaidecrows]

The selection committee needs to be proactive here and take minor opportunities to rest younger players as well as rotate out under performing players.

Frampton has to be dropped. He is choosing to play behind his opponents and tries to reach over the top all the time in marking contests. Himmelberg genuinely attacks the flight of the ball better than Frampton and has a better leap. I think the Frampton experiment ultimately is proving to fail.

Over the next 2 weeks the selection committee should be aiming to get Thilthorpe, Worrell and Hately into the side. I can't see them making 3 changes in one hit though without an injury.

Out: frampton ( form )

Players who simply could fall under resting or rotating

Hamill, McHenry, Berry, Murphy, Rowe

I can't see them considering to drop Kelly in the immediate future. Not until at least Talia comes back.

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[Mutineer]

I thought Himmelberg's SANFL game Saturday wasn't too bad. In fact it got better as the game progressed.

Prety bloody ordinary was my take on his game, better than the week before was about the best I could say for his total game time. He really should be dominating against B grade SANFL defenders like Josh Ryan.

Keiran Lovell was B.O.G. with no player even close and along with Joel Stevens they absolutely pantsed our midfielders Hately, Jones and co., a real worry when Strachan was dominating the hit outs against WA beanpole Angus Rana.

 

[Thylacinus]

Prety bloody ordinary was my take on his game, better than the week before was about the best I could say for his total game time. He really should be dominating against B grade SANFL defenders like Josh Ryan.

Keiran Lovell was B.O.G. with no player even close and along with Joel Stevens they absolutely pantsed our midfielders Hately, Jones and co., a real worry when Strachan was dominating the hit outs against WA beanpole Angus Rana.

Do you think Frampton should remain in? If not, who would you replace him with or how would you configure things?

 

[Vader]

View attachment 1100453

Lockett: 1360 goals, 590 behinds = 69.7% accuracy
Fogarty: 29 goals, 5 behinds = 85.3%

Nope, I'm still sticking with Fogarty for accuracy. Amazing as Lockett was, Fogarty is in a whole class above him.

 

[Mutineer]

Do you think Frampton should remain in? If not, who would you replace him with or how would you configure things?

All I know is none of Frampton, Himmelberg or Thilthorpe are in anything like good form, far from it in fact. If we're being honest none of them on current form should be playing AFL so I'll leave it to the coaching panel to decide who they think is the best of a poor lot currently. I think the most likely to replace Frampton is Himmelberg from the coaches point of view but personally I'd go with Thilthorpe with an eye on the future.

Obviously Thilthorpe is the future but honestly he's not ready watching him so far this season.

 

[Crow till I die]

Lockett: 1360 goals, 590 behinds = 69.7% accuracy
Fogarty: 29 goals, 5 behinds = 85.3%

Nope, I'm still sticking with Fogarty for accuracy. Amazing as Lockett was, Fogarty is in a whole class above him.

a vastly different sample size I would have thought. And Lockett was kicking them from the same sort of spots Fogarty is now

 

[Mutineer]

a vastly different sample size I would have thought. And Lockett was kicking them from the same sort of spots Fogarty is now

They shouldn't even be in the same discussion on any level let alone kicking.

 

[Coopers]

That's the thing... he's a one trick pony, but my God he's good at that one trick.

His trick is the ability to convert uncontested marks into goals, with an astounding accuracy rate - even more remarkable, given where he takes those kicks. I cannot think of a single player, in 30 years watching AFL football, who comes close to matching Fogarty's accuracy. The closest player I can think of is probably Tex Walker, with his ability to kick goals from 50+, but Fogarty's miss rate is less than half of Tex's. When it comes to his one trick, he's quite literally a once in a generation player (maybe even better than that).

The problem is that every other aspect of his game is below AFL standard. His work rate is poor (lack of repeat efforts), his ability to win contested possession (either contested marking or on the ground) is poor, and his defensive pressure is pathetic. Against most opposition, he costs us as many goals as he kicks, if not more. He is completely reliant upon taking uncontested marks, which just doesn't happen that often against quality opposition (North are not quality opposition).

He is, as you say both the very good, and the very bad (too many people here focus solely on the very good). He has one trick, which is truly outstanding - but it's only one trick. Players just don't make it in the AFL if their game isn't better rounded than Fogarty's.

I dunno why, but I'm fairly confident he'll fix those things. There's no way it won't be made apparent to him in a review.
And he should be able to close distance and tackle - he can burst and get separation on a lead, he should be able to do it defensively.
I also like the short burst into the midfield, he is enormous. Not sure if he's nimble enough to be there for extended periods, but changing it up to put some grunt in can't hurt for occasional contests.

 

[Vader]

a vastly different sample size I would have thought. And Lockett was kicking them from the same sort of spots Fogarty is now

Yes, it's a vastly different sample size. That, I will give you.

As players, it's chalk and cheese - Lockett is a Living Legend, Fogarty is a 4th year kid who can't establish himself in the best 22. But in terms of accuracy alone, Fogarty is in a league all of his own.

 

[Slippery Pete]

They shouldn't even be in the same discussion on any level let alone kicking.

a vastly different sample size I would have thought. And Lockett was kicking them from the same sort of spots Fogarty is now

Only Vader could write four paragraphs and not get a single thing right in any of them.

 

[Vader]

They shouldn't even be in the same discussion on any level let alone kicking.

The discussion is limited to goal kicking accuracy. If you want to compare them as players, then you are 100% correct - there is no comparison.

 

[Mutineer]

The discussion is limited to goal kicking accuracy. If you want to compare them as players, then you are 100% correct - there is no comparison.

LOL

Maybe you never saw Tony Lockett play?

There's never been anyone as good as Lockett at kicking the goal in pressure situations and that includes players like Peter Hudson, Jason Dunstall and Michael Roach to name some.

 

[Thetrader15]

...

Playing all of Walker, Frampton, Lynch, Fogarty/Himmelberg is a recipe for disaster as the ball is walked out of our forward line. The other problem is that our smalls aren't performing so we have some major problems with our forward line at present.

The coaches need to look into whether our current setup is the best forward line that we can come up with from our entire squad? Are they missing something.

We are ranked #3 for points scored - I don't think our forward line has that many 'major problems'.

 

[Thetrader15]

LOL

Maybe you never saw Tony Lockett play?

There's never been anyone as good as Lockett at kicking the goal in pressure situations and that includes players like Peter Hudson, Jason Dunstall and Michael Roach to name some.

Darren Jarman?

 

[Vader]

LOL

Maybe you never saw Tony Lockett play?

There's never been anyone as good as Lockett at kicking the goal in pressure situations and that includes players like Peter Hudson, Jason Dunstall and Michael Roach to name some.

I saw him play. He is/was/always will be one of the absolute greats - a true Legend of the Game. I am not seeking to take anything away from his greatness or legend.

But when you look at the stats, he missed the target 30.3% of the time, compared to Fogarty's miss rate of 14.7%.