Preview Changes: R5 vs Richmond - Saturday April 16, 4.05pm ACST @ Adelaide Oval

[Scorpus]

IN:
McAdam, Cook, Berry

OUT:
Hinge, Rowe, Schoenberg

Hinge dropped and named as an emergency, not injured

 

[Mr MysteryGuest]

Is that disingenuous? Or is it disingenuous to suggest that he's out performing people that have twice the metric that he has based upon two games against then winless teams and is performing at a level he's never touched in his career?

What? those other players have played double the amount of games.

A level he’s never touched? I mean he’s slightly above last year, but last was pretty good. He was one the best contested ball/clearance going around.

 

[Drugs Are Bad Mackay?]

It's weird how everyone on the board universally agrees that our midfield is our No 1 problem yet when any individual from the midfield gets critiqued there are posters who go into bat for them all guns blazing.

 

[triggyscrewedus]

At this point we need to embrace the expansion of the competition by thanking Jones for his service and allowing him to be the face of the new Tassie team.
We all know he's a superstar (the greatest midfielder Tassie has ever seen as a junior) in the making but we have a duty to the game.

A top 5 pick should do it.

We are NOT in a rebuild... we are just starting one, we need 3 more drafts of high end picks purely due to our recent failures setting us back.
Team of misfits, has beens and under achievers.

 

[1970crow]

It's weird how everyone on the board universally agrees that our midfield is our No 1 problem yet when any individual from the midfield gets critiqued there are posters who go into bat for them all guns blazing.

had this exact back and forth with Jeffcrowe a couple of weeks ago. End result was that he backed all but Sloane individually, excusing Crouch by saying he needed better players around him. So basically just dividing Sloane’s minutes between a few players and weirdly thinking that 32yo cooked body Sloane could be reinvented at half back because elite decision makers with laser legs like Hodge and Lewis did.

But he’s coming around and is now aligned with me as he wants crouch out as well. So that’s Keays and Laird leading a rotation of junior mids. This will allow Rochelle to get a few spurts and even mid ager like Murphy, who always looks good and lively around stoppages.

I’m sure at least he is devastated that Schoey was the one that suffered the axe and the fab 4 remain untouchable in there. No doubt Sloane will spend 3-4 minutes at half forward this week so they can excuse his poor output and blame the role change before selecting him again next week. I expect his TOG will be near 90% this week.

 

[Slippery Pete]

I’ve probably missed a few pages but can someone amuse me and explain why RT still isn’t in the side?

 

[George Kramer]

I’ve probably missed a few pages but can someone amuse me and explain why RT still isn’t in the side?

Nicks

 

[1970crow]

I’ve probably missed a few pages but can someone amuse me and explain why RT still isn’t in the side?

Himmelberg has won about 2 months of selection guarantee regardless of output. Need to wait for Gollant to have a couple of bad games.

 

[LeftyLuke]

I’ve probably missed a few pages but can someone amuse me and explain why RT still isn’t in the side?

ROB. Would prefer they brought in Strachan and Thilthorpe. I think they want to see Thilrhorpe taking some more marks around the ground as well.

 

[1970crow]

It's weird how everyone on the board universally agrees that our midfield is our No 1 problem yet when any individual from the midfield gets critiqued there are posters who go into bat for them all guns blazing.

The main factor is that naming players makes it personal and that’s unpalatable to most. Bicks is a classic example, like Rowie, they’re prepared to bemoan our performance and need to get better, but as soon as you point to an individual player that’s experienced, it’s unconditional support and excuses for them.

Kids though are easy to drop and support talking about any and every bit of their game that’s not perfect. Bicks again in the SANFL thread had a crack at Hately kicking forward indiscriminately and having to fix that. And yet he wouldn’t name a single player in our experienced group that needs to improve that same aspect. But he’s ok posting that out midfield doesn’t need any MORE ball burnerers.

 

[1970crow]

Nicks

It’s ‘Nix’, which is the probability that he gets another senior coaching gig after being sacked by us.

 

[Drugs Are Bad Mackay?]

I’ve probably missed a few pages but can someone amuse me and explain why RT still isn’t in the side?

We've got a pretty stacked forward line

 

[Carmo]

It's weird how everyone on the board universally agrees that our midfield is our No 1 problem yet when any individual from the midfield gets critiqued there are posters who go into bat for them all guns blazing.

Sorry but I do not universally agree that our midfield is the No 1 problem.

FWIW I believe our problem is inexperience, which leads to us being just a little low in performance in a number of areas like, discipline and giving away frees, like taking on the game when the chance presents, like the connection issue between mids and forwards, like not trusting your team mate and so having multiple flyers leaving opponents free, like having two people chasing 1 guy at a contest leaving others free, like letting the ball get over the back too much, like the balance between taking possession and say tapping it on being subtly too much toward taking possession, like not reading the game and knowing when its hit targets game or a tight contest just take territory mode.

That's the difference between us and good sides. A whole bunch of little things.

Also note that our midfield is made to look worse in the eyes of this board since it judges our midfield on what all the other midfields look like, because people here don't know or wont accept our gameplan is very different to other clubs and so we're not going to look like the other midfields. Same with our defense. Better get used to the one guy getting a bag each week, since we're willing to tolerate that in order to have a different structure to force the game elsewhere to be played more on our terms.

 

[thebirdman 24]

I'm happy to keep Laird and Keays in our midfield but we have to remove Crouch and Sloane. It's that simple.

On SM-A325F using BigFooty.com mobile app

 

[Vader]

It's weird how everyone on the board universally agrees that our midfield is our No 1 problem yet when any individual from the midfield gets critiqued there are posters who go into bat for them all guns blazing.

Because the problem is a collective one. Individually, all 4 of our mids are decent players - good, but not great, though Sloane's decline is disturbing. Collectively, they have a sameness to them, and together they constitute one of (if not the outright) the worst midfield groups in the competition.

It's hard to pick one out of the group and say "this is the one who needs to go", when the problem isn't the individual players - it's that we have too many players who are so very similar.

 

[Scorpus]

I'm happy to keep Laird and Keays in our midfield but we have to remove Crouch and Sloane. It's that simple.

On SM-A325F using BigFooty.com mobile app

And not just to other positions. Out of the team

 

[pjcrows]

It's weird how everyone on the board universally agrees that our midfield is our No 1 problem yet when any individual from the midfield gets critiqued there are posters who go into bat for them all guns blazing.

Exactly. It's team-wide.

As an example, I advocated for us trading Brodie Smith and Rory Laird two years ago to get top end talent. The instant response is "No, how could you!"

I'm not saying they're not really good players - I'm saying the opposite. They're really good players, but they have ceilings and we needed elite young midfielders. We still do. Our midfield profile and depth is nowhere near it.

 

[Rory Walkerfield]

I'm happy to keep Laird and Keays in our midfield but we have to remove Crouch and Sloane. It's that simple.

On SM-A325F using BigFooty.com mobile app

If Laird and Keays were our 3rd and 4th best midfielders then I’d entertain a discussion about having a stacked midfield. But we don’t have that problem!

 

[texanmike]

Someone a few days ago summed up nicks very well, he’s obviously a great manager of people and culture, but he can’t coach, he will be gone end of next year if performance and his selection policy continues.

 

[LeftyLuke]

I'm happy to keep Laird and Keays in our midfield but we have to remove Crouch and Sloane. It's that simple.

On SM-A325F using BigFooty.com mobile app

Totally agree but other than Berry we don't have any other young mids in form. Schoenberg is completely out of form, Hately is more of the same in the Crouch, Sloane mould but with worse skills. That leaves Pedlar who hasn't exactly been dominating SANFL. I have high hopes for Taylor but he's currently injured. We should be playing Laird, Keays, Berry as the mainstays and running some others such as Rachele, Dawson through for a few bursts. Pedlar needs to start producing on a regular basis for such a high draft pick. Schoenberg, Berry, Laird and Keays is likely what it will end up shortly if Schoenberg finds some form. For all our picks we still don't have an elite young mid to show for it. We either need to look at bringing in an established quality mid in the 22-24 age group end of the year or finally nail a draft pick on a quality mid.

 

[Rory Walkerfield]

Totally agree but other than Berry we don't have any other young mids in form. Schoenberg is completely out of form, Hately is more of the same in the Crouch, Sloane mould but with worse skills. That leaves Pedlar who hasn't exactly been dominating SANFL. I have high hopes for Taylor but he's currently injured. We should be playing Laird, Keays, Berry as the mainstays and running some others such as Rachele, Dawson through for a few bursts. Pedlar needs to start producing on a regular basis for such a high draft pick. Schoenberg, Berry, Laird and Keays is likely what it will end up shortly if Schoenberg finds some form. For all our picks we still don't have an elite young mid to show for it. We either need to look at bringing in an established quality mid in the 22-24 age group end of the year or finally nail a draft pick on a quality mid.

The other thing is we don’t play other guys in the midfield who were drafted as mids. Why not give Jones and McHenry a crack. Atleast it would be different to watching the same clones go about it.

 

[Gtowncrow]

The 10 other players who get the most disposals along with Laird are as follows:

Bailey Smith
Zach Merrett
Travis Boak
Darcy Parish
Lachie Neale
Jack Macrae
Ben Keays
Sam Walsh
Christian Petracca
Clayton Oliver

They are among the best of the best. Their kicking efficiencies range from 76.2% (Macrae) to 49% (Petracca). Laird, at 60.7% sits 7th from these 11 players. For meters gained, Laird sits 10th of 11, with only Walsh worse.

However, of this group, Laird sits top in score involvements. He sits 3rd in goal assists and 3rd in score launches. He sits 4th in clearances. I reiterate, he is a very good midfielder who is involved in a lot of good attacking play. He is much, much better than you’re making him out to be.

Excellent data.
Even though there is more to sport than statistics, they're an irrefutable benchmark for comparison purposes.

At the AFC, Laird is probably first picked each week. I can't think why I've read so many pages on here on the Laird discussion...

 

[Southerntakeover]

Because the problem is a collective one. Individually, all 4 of our mids are decent players - good, but not great, though Sloane's decline is disturbing. Collectively, they have a sameness to them, and together they constitute one of (if not the outright) the worst midfield groups in the competition.

It's hard to pick one out of the group and say "this is the one who needs to go", when the problem isn't the individual players - it's that we have too many players who are so very similar.

Which, hilariously, was where I began my commentary. I didn't single Laird out.

It was the numpty brigade that decided it was really important to conduct a debate about whether Laird's kicking, despite years of exposure to it, is actually very good and he's a top 20 midfielder.

 

[Southerntakeover]

laird and Keays are good to rotate the kids around. I can even handle crouch getting 2-3 more to see if he can work back into it. But Sloane needs to go so his 80% TOG all midfield can be divided up between 2 or 3 junior mids. Maybe keep Matt down at that 60% TOG too.

I was going to add that giving Sloane a few weeks off will get him back to being a worthy contributor. But he's broken down 2 games into the season, I guess they think he either finds a way or it is what it is and we just carry him as a starting mid until he hangs up the boots end of next year.

I don't disagree, my original post was aimed at the collective three. Laird, as the best of the lot right now, isnt our first target for improvement. It was others that got loony at the suggestion he's not a Jordan Dawson laser leg.

The question comes down to whether we're trying to improve on him at all: you don't need to upgrade on elites, but my view is that whilst B graders may be the best we have for a while yet you ultimately do still need to seek improvement if you want to get to the promised land.

I.e. is he in there as a stop gap, or is he actually the centerpiece?

 

[hey shorty]

I don't disagree, my original post was aimed at the collective three. Laird, as the best of the lot right now, isnt our first target for improvement. It was others that got loony at the suggestion he's not a Jordan Dawson laser leg.

The question comes down to whether we're trying to improve on him at all: you don't need to upgrade on elites, but my view is that whilst B graders may be the best we have for a while yet you ultimately do still need to seek improvement if you want to get to the promised land.

I.e. is he in there as a stop gap, or is he actually the centerpiece?

I reckon the centrepiece is Rachele, in time.

 

[Southerntakeover]

I’m not suggesting that Laird has a great penetrating kick, but the stats show that this year - admittedly small sample size - compared to other mids who get a bunch of the ball and who are considered elite by most, he creates a lot of scoring opportunities. Here’s hoping he continues in that vein.

Note: Just quickly checked last years stats and Laird still holds his own, or outperforms many of the other major ball winners in the same stats I listed. Again, he creates a lot for the team and cannot simply be dismissed as “not damaging” as many suggest.

Thing is, he doesnt survive a head to head comparison with any of those players and you know it.

Disingenuously cherry picking a few stats based upon small sample size that ultimately do not hand up to greater scrutiny to suggest equivalency isn't a good faith tactic.