Preview Changes: R5 vs Richmond - Saturday April 16, 4.05pm ACST @ Adelaide Oval

[Scorpus]

IN:
McAdam, Cook, Berry

OUT:
Hinge, Rowe, Schoenberg

Hinge dropped and named as an emergency, not injured

 

[Southerntakeover]

In the top 2 teams Darren

So not within those two teams top 8, but supposedly a top 20 mid?

 

[Jeffcrowe]

So not within those two teams top 8, but supposedly a top 20 mid?

You Counting rucks as mids ? Haha

 

[Southerntakeover]

You Counting rucks as mids ? Haha

If we did it would only push Laird further down

 

[Jeffcrowe]

If we did it would only push Laird further down

You just did ! How many mids are there in the centre square not counting the ruck Darren ?

 

[dylan123]

His kick is average , lacks penetration . Is neat enough over shorter distance

Josh Dunkley is a ‘terrible’ kick , Laird is a better kick than Taylor Adams and no one calls his kick ‘ terrible’ or ‘sucks ‘

I'm certainly someone that believes Adams is a terrible kick and Dunkley is for sure - along with not being able to kick it over 40 for Dunkley.

That's just the sort of player those guys are where their ability to find it makes up for it but certainly a weakness of theirs. Our issue is we've got that same kind of midfielder with Crouch and Keays too and it hurts.

 

[Southerntakeover]

You just did ! How many mids are there in the centre square not counting the ruck Darren ?

Thinking that teams only play three midfielders is a very Adelaide Crows opinion.

 

[Jeffcrowe]

I'm certainly someone that believes Adams is a terrible kick and Dunkley is for sure - along with not being able to kick it over 40 for Dunkley.

That's just the sort of player those guys are where their ability to find it makes up for it but certainly a weakness of theirs. Our issue is we've got that same kind of midfielder with Crouch and Keays too and it hurts.

Agree but that’s not really Lairds fault

It’s Fogarty fault that Himmelberg is a much better performed AFL player than Fog

Not Fogs fault that he isn’t as good as Aaron Naughton

 

[Jeffcrowe]

Thinking that teams only play three midfielders is a very Adelaide Crows opinion.

You said 8 Daz . We were talking about starting mids which there are only 6

8-6= 2 . 2 is what you missed by

Defending Fog over Laird shows everyone where you’re at

 

[Southerntakeover]

You said 8 Daz . We were talking about starting mids which there are only 6

8-6= 2 . 2 is what you missed by

Defending Fog over Laird shows everyone where you’re at

Nowhere did I use the word 'starting'.

Your comprehension difficulties aren't my problem.

 

[Southerntakeover]

Agree but that’s not really Lairds fault

It’s Fogarty fault that Himmelberg is a much better performed AFL player than Fog

Not Fogs fault that he isn’t as good as Aaron Naughton

Being a bad kick is absolutely his fault.

 

[Jeffcrowe]

Nowhere did I use the word 'starting'.

Your comprehension difficulties aren't my problem.

You said top 8

Anyway your boy Fog has proven he’s not up to sanfl standard over his career so go lie down on that hill Darren

 

[Jeffcrowe]

Being a bad kick is absolutely his fault.

In your head , which isn’t much really

 

[Southerntakeover]

You said top 8

Anyway your boy Fog has proven he’s not up to sanfl standard over his career so ho lie down on that hill Darren

Yes, top 8.

Which part of this are you struggling with?

 

[Jeffcrowe]

Yes, top 8.

Which part of this are you struggling with?

Well we were talking about starting mids

Then you brought in the ruckman , not my problem Darren

 

[Southerntakeover]

In your head , which isn’t much really

You think you're going well, don't you?

I'll give you one thing: you're consistent in your inability to assess performance

 

[Southerntakeover]

Well we were talking about starting mids

Then you brought in the ruckman , not my problem Darren

You're supposed to get the money before you pants yourself.

 

[Miss Vanessa]

His kick is average , lacks penetration . Is neat enough over shorter distance

Josh Dunkley is a ‘terrible’ kick , Laird is a better kick than Taylor Adams and no one calls his kick ‘ terrible’ or ‘sucks ‘

It’s interesting how peoples assumptions about players have some basis in reality, but never really quite fit the facts.

Laird this year averages:
34 disposals (elite)
14 kicks at 60 kicking efficiency (average)
5.5 changers
4 turnovers
323 m gained (average)
9 score involvements (elite)
2.5 score launches (above average)
1 assist (above average)

It does seem that he doesn’t gain huge meters in a game and this is likely due to his handballing more and a not particularly long kick… but he is still involved a hell of a lot in any decent forward movement.

For comparison, Bailey Smith - who I’d have at the Crows in a heartbeat - almost doubles the meters gained that Laird achieves but is responsible for only 7.5 score involvements, 0.5 goal assists and 0.3 score launches.

To downplay Laird to a barely capable midfielder does him a huge injustice.

 

[Jeffcrowe]

You're supposed to get the money before you pants yourself.

Look he’s not a great kick but he’s not terrible

Laird really not one of the main problems in our side and I don’t think anyone would disagree that watched football

Fogarty however ! Hope he gets that 1 kick to make lairds 30 look bad , that’s the hard bit for Fog

 

[Jeffcrowe]

It’s interesting how peoples assumptions about players have some basis in reality, but never really quite fit the facts.

Laird this year averages:
34 disposals (elite)
14 kicks at 60 kicking efficiency (average)
5.5 changers
4 turnovers
323 m gained (average)
9 score involvements (elite)
2.5 score launches (above average)
1 assist (above average)

It does seem that he doesn’t gain huge meters in a game and this is likely due to his handballing more and a not particularly long kick… but he is still involved a hell of a lot in any decent forward movement.

For comparison, Bailey Smith - who I’d have at the Crows in a heartbeat - almost doubles the meters gained that Laird achieves but is responsible for only 7.5 score involvements, 0.5 goal assists and 0.3 score launches.

To downplay Laird to a barely capable midfielder does him a huge injustice.

No doubt and that’s why he’s top 25 mid in comp

It’s not an outrageous assumption at all

But to some it is LOL

 

[Southerntakeover]

It’s interesting how peoples assumptions about players have some basis in reality, but never really quite fit the facts.

Laird this year averages:
34 disposals (elite)
14 kicks at 60 kicking efficiency (average)
5.5 changers
4 turnovers
323 m gained (average)
9 score involvements (elite)
2.5 score launches (above average)
1 assist (above average)

It does seem that he doesn’t gain huge meters in a game and this is likely due to his handballing more and a not particularly long kick… but he is still involved a hell of a lot in any decent forward movement.

For comparison, Bailey Smith - who I’d have at the Crows in a heartbeat - almost doubles the meters gained that Laird achieves but is responsible for only 7.5 score involvements, 0.5 goal assists and 0.3 score launches.

To downplay Laird to a barely capable midfielder does him a huge injustice.

The problem is, those are not figures that make out your argument on quality. They make out mine: that he is a B grader, but not elite.

His disposal statistics will never properly capture the difficulties in quality, because they do not mark him down for the nature of the kick. A slow, high kick that enables defenders to take position does not harm the stat provided a contest forms.

 

[Southerntakeover]

No doubt and that’s why he’s top 25 mid in comp

It’s not an outrageous assumption at all

But to some it is LOL

Do you know what assumption means?

 

[Jeffcrowe]

The problem is, those are not figures that make out your argument on quality. They make out mine: that he is a B grader, but not elite.

His disposal statistics will never properly capture the difficulties in quality, because they do not mark him down for the nature of the kick. A slow, high kick that enables defenders to take position does not harm the stat provided a contest forms.

Your argument doesn’t mean anything like usual

There is no perception in the AFL that Laird is a ‘terrible’ kick

He’s an average kick that lacks penetration , can pick off short targets quite well hence he was a very good half back

Heck is a v good midfielder too , you’re right he’s not elite . No argument

He’s not a ‘terrible’ kick in any logical analysis though

Matt crouch is currently a terrible kick , Keays below average and Laird average

But it’s all opinion , you’re right . It’s just that most peoples opinions in the game don’t agree and the stats don’t

 

[Miss Vanessa]

The problem is, those are not figures that make out your argument on quality. They make out mine: that he is a B grader, but not elite.

His disposal statistics will never properly capture the difficulties in quality, because they do not mark him down for the nature of the kick. A slow, high kick that enables defenders to take position does not harm the stat provided a contest forms.

The 10 other players who get the most disposals along with Laird are as follows:

Bailey Smith
Zach Merrett
Travis Boak
Darcy Parish
Lachie Neale
Jack Macrae
Ben Keays
Sam Walsh
Christian Petracca
Clayton Oliver

They are among the best of the best. Their kicking efficiencies range from 76.2% (Macrae) to 49% (Petracca). Laird, at 60.7% sits 7th from these 11 players. For meters gained, Laird sits 10th of 11, with only Walsh worse.

However, of this group, Laird sits top in score involvements. He sits 3rd in goal assists and 3rd in score launches. He sits 4th in clearances. I reiterate, he is a very good midfielder who is involved in a lot of good attacking play. He is much, much better than you’re making him out to be.

 

[dylan123]

Agree but that’s not really Lairds fault

It’s Fogarty fault that Himmelberg is a much better performed AFL player than Fog

Not Fogs fault that he isn’t as good as Aaron Naughton

That's where I'm not blaming Laird it's just compounded more that none of him, Keays or Crouch are really damaging by foot. I suppose Laird can get the little chip kicks which is handy but the dynamic change of having one of those guys with a kick like Dawson would be massive.

Kicking skills aside, it's' frustrating how easy it seems to be for teams to win it from the middle and run out. Rob doesn't help whatsoever with his ruck work so I'd love to see us try someone else for a change as that alone could make having a group with similar strengths look that much better.

 

[maxlilly]

Game style Changes
Today the sanfl side played a lot more attacking brand of footy with handball and getting back through the corridor.
Will we see this tomorrow as well ?