Preview Changes v Carlton (Round 11)

[Big Sauce 21]

I am interesting to hear whether people think there is a chance that Zac O'Brien might get a chance in the senior team in this half of the season. Does he need to be promoted from rookie first? If so, McGuane's injury would seem to provide the opportunity to do so. I only seem to hear positives about him from the regular NEAFL watchers. Or is he a bit like some players we already have in the senior team, without enough of a point of difference. He is older than the average rookie so you would think he is more likely to handle the physical aspects of the top level. I would like to see him get a start at some point just to see what he can offer us. I suppose, though that it really just means another inexperienced player in the team. But if a younger guy needs a rest, maybe O'Brien would get a look in.

Who came on for rich

 

[Skoob]

. Disingenuously claiming confusion demeans us both.

.

Wasn't being Disingenuous at all. Unintentionally dim, perhaps.

We never know everything. We make judgements based on what we do know. This is always the case..

I don't believe that to be the case at all. Very often assumptions are made, and those with broader minds may account for the unknown.

I don't have any more insight into Docherty's motivations than anyone else, but I can think of plenty of reasons why he wouldn't want to publicly talk about the terminal illness of a close relative.

Then I can only assume your anti-booing stance is purely based on compassion, completely unrelated to the reasons others feel the right to boo him.
(I have no issue with this, and think it admirable without feeling guilty for not sharing the quality in this instance).

I'm disappointed you don't think his personal circumstances are relevant, if I understand you correctly.

If I tried to empathise with everyone who ran onto the footy ground (particularly the opposition) I would get terribly depressed and be compelled to cheer for everyone that kicked a goal (from either side).
If I met Sam in a pub or in the street just being Sam, I would feel human toward him. Being that he dumped my club and pulled on a blues guernsey, anytime he is representing that club, he is a bit of a traitor. Childish theatrics, I know, but that is a small joy I get from football (not all I get, just a bit). I feel okay about separating real life and the business of football, much the same that the Vosses, Swallows, Selwoods feel it's okay to thump their siblings off the ball.

I was perfectly clear. I hate having to repeat myself.

Sorry Tom, but I am still unclear if your stance relates only to the likes of Sam who we know has had a rough year, or if booing players in general abhors you. If it is only the case here because of "what we know" about Sam, then I kind of think it conveniently hypocritical to condone booing when wedon't know an individual's circumstances. If you're fundamentally against booing in general then... I dunno.

 

[lionshine]

I am interesting to hear whether people think there is a chance that Zac O'Brien might get a chance in the senior team in this half of the season. Does he need to be promoted from rookie first? If so, McGuane's injury would seem to provide the opportunity to do so. I only seem to hear positives about him from the regular NEAFL watchers. Or is he a bit like some players we already have in the senior team, without enough of a point of difference. He is older than the average rookie so you would think he is more likely to handle the physical aspects of the top level. I would like to see him get a start at some point just to see what he can offer us. I suppose, though that it really just means another inexperienced player in the team. But if a younger guy needs a rest, maybe O'Brien would get a look in.

Leppa said in the fan cast he can see O'Brien playing senior games this year so it is definitely a possibility. He also said he can see Archie Smith, Daniel McStay, and Jordan Bourke debuting as well. If those 4 do that would be 9 players on our list who made their debut this year

 

[jackess]

Leppa said in the fan cast he can see O'Brien playing senior games this year so it is definitely a possibility. He also said he can see Archie Smith, Daniel McStay, and Jordan Bourke debuting as well. If those 4 do that would be 9 players on our list who made their debut this year

We did have 10 debutants in 2011.

 

[3KZ is Football]

Could we play the entire FITZROY team that beat Ajax by 101 points today?

 

[lionshine]

We did have 10 debutants in 2011.

Could be a similar number this year. It wouldn't surprise to see O'Brien give Roberston a rest, Bourke give Gardiner a rest, Smith give Close a rest, and McStay give Cutler a rest at some stage. They are similar players.

 

[Ironmonger]

I don't believe that to be the case at all. Very often assumptions are made, and those with broader minds may account for the unknown.

That in no way challenges what I've said. The second part doesn't even make any sense.

Then I can only assume your anti-booing stance is purely based on compassion, completely unrelated to the reasons others feel the right to boo him.
(I have no issue with this, and think it admirable without feeling guilty for not sharing the quality in this instance).

What rubbish! You should always feel compassion. Treating it like something you can switch off is inhuman.

If I tried to empathise with everyone who ran onto the footy ground (particularly the opposition) I would get terribly depressed and be compelled to cheer for everyone that kicked a goal (from either side).

So don't. Reserve your empathy for special cases. Like players who just had a close relative die of cancer.

Sorry Tom, but I am still unclear if your stance relates only to the likes of Sam who we know has had a rough year, or if booing players in general abhors you. If it is only the case here because of "what we know" about Sam, then I kind of think it conveniently hypocritical to condone booing when wedon't know an individual's circumstances. If you're fundamentally against booing in general then... I dunno.

Well that's freaking weird because I don't recall saying anything about any other players. You're trying to broaden this issue to muddy the waters but it's really quite simple: is it okay to boo a young man for leaving, when it's likely he left because of a personal tragedy?

I say it's absolutely wrong and it's something I'm more than prepared to take a stance against.

Booing players in general? Well, like most general principles there are shades of gray. In every case we make decisions about how to judge people based on what we know, a concept you continue to seemingly misunderstand, even though like all of us you apply it every day.

Anyway, this is very tiresome. I find it odious to keep engaging with someone who is defending the right to boo the families of cancer victims.

Frankly it makes my skin crawl.

 

[Skoob]

Anyway, this is very tiresome. I find it odious to keep engaging with someone who is defending the right to boo the families of cancer victims.

Frankly it makes my skin crawl.

You're right, it is getting tiresome, so I won't bore you and others with argument to the rest of your responses, deliberately missing or twisting the point.
"Booing the families of cancer victims" though is ridiculously melodramatic and unfair.
There's a hell of a lot of us who are family of cancer victims Tom, but let's not stop the world to walk on eggshells.
For all you know, half the AFL playing group has had a family member die in tragic circumstances. I trust you'll treat them all with utmost respect and refrain from criticism.

 

[Skoob]

Anyway, this is very tiresome. I find it odious to keep engaging with someone who is defending the right to boo the families of cancer victims.

Frankly it makes my skin crawl.

In fact Tom, how ****ing dare you try to paint me that way just to try to win an argument.
Poor form cobber.

 

[Ironmonger]

In fact Tom, how ******* dare you try to paint me that way just to try to win an argument.
Poor form cobber.

That's exactly what you are doing, Skoob.

If you take offence to it, good. You should be upset about this. You've posted a lot of stuff defending nastiness and I have no problem at all making you feel bad about that.

Or anybody else for that matter.

 

[Skoob]

That's exactly what you are doing, Skoob.

If you take offence to it, good. You should be upset about this. You've posted a lot of stuff defending nastiness and I have no problem at all making you feel bad about that.

Or anybody else for that matter.

Bullshit.
Booing footballers at the football is hardly nastiness, and I haven't tried to paint you in any light.
You still haven't answered any of the questions asked of you, reasonable questions about your stance on booing to better understand where you're coming from other than "you can't boo a player if you know a family member died".
If your opinion on the matter is so strong, I expect you to take everyone who has indicated a tendancy or intention to boo to task and not just someone who dared question your flimsy rationale.

 

[cotter101]

In: O'Brien, Rockliff, Patfull, McGrath, Maguire, Mayes
Out: Raines, Paine, Lisle, Gardiner, Merrett, Golby

Merrett back the the reserves to see if it can spark him back into action.
Paine, Lisle and Gardiner out simply because we'd be far to tall against a team that has deadly small players.

Patfull Maguire Adcock
Robertson Clarke Beams

Hanley Redden Mayes

Taylor Close Paparone
Zorko Brown McGrath

Foll: West, Rockliff, Green

Int: Aish, O'Brien, Cutler
Sub: Lester

I want to throw Robertson and Beams on the back flanks. Beams for his smarts and kicking skills and Robertson for his willingness to take the game on and the fact you know he'll always give 110%.

I think Taylor needs to play just outside the 50. He is probably one of our smartest players already and we need smart forward 50 entry's.

Need a couple of goals each from Paparone, Zorko, McGrath and Brown.

I've got Zorko playing as a small forward who occasionally goes into the midfield to provide spark. His kicking and decision making is far to poor to play him there too much.

Green in the guts to add some speed and he can hopefully burst away from some clearances and make us look that extra bit dangerous.



13 guys in that side with under 50 games, 10 of which have played 25 games or under. Really does show why we are where we are on the ladder this year.

 

[James North]

In: Smith (rookie elevation)
Out: Lisle

Two rucks, one who can dunk.

 

[Roylion]

Could we play the entire FITZROY team that beat Ajax by 101 points today?

It was fantastic. The best day of football I've had for a long time.
In: A. Green, D. Bisetto, W. Fenton
OUT: J.Paine, A.Raines, J. Lisle

 

[Tassie4ever]

So don't. Reserve your empathy for special cases. Like players who just had a close relative die of cancer.

Or those who have elderly grandmothers in Perth.

 

[3KZ is Football]

It was fantastic. The best day of football I've had for a long time.
In: A. Green, D. Bisetto, W. Fenton
OUT: J.Paine, A.Raines, J. Lisle

I'd give Tom Biscaro a run up forward on the strength of his outstanding last quarter mark and goal from out wide on the right half forward flank and Rory Angiolella would be an immediate selection for mine after his dynamic display in the midfield. We need a tough and hard midfielder who knows how to get his own ball at Brisbane and Rory fits that bill nicely. I'd keep Raines in the side though.

 

[ZoBlitz]

I don't know about anyone else but I think we've about covered the ethics of booing. I know it's bye week but let's move on to more football related stuff.

 

[Skoob]

Yay,

CARLTON champion Chris Judd could make his long-awaited return from a hamstring strain in next Saturday's clash against the Brisbane Lions at the Gabba.

 

[Toffee Lion]

Yay,

So you're saying, Carlton will be wasting their sub?

Let's see how long his hamstring lasts this time.

 

[jackess]

Health and Safety will require us to be wearing safety goggles this weekend

 

[Skoob]

Health and Safety will require us to be wearing safety goggles this weekend

I hear he has been doing his rehab at the Miyagi school of excellence.

 

[BuntonRules]

Health and Safety will require us to be wearing safety goggles this weekend

And neckguards. And shoulder supports.

 

[JasperBeardly]

I am interesting to hear whether people think there is a chance that Zac O'Brien might get a chance in the senior team in this half of the season. Does he need to be promoted from rookie first? If so, McGuane's injury would seem to provide the opportunity to do so.

As a rookie listed player he would need to be elevated before he could play in the Seniors. Interestingly though, before McGuane we'd had three players with 'long term' injuries already this year in Rich, Leuenberger and Weardon, but we haven't taken the opportunity to elevate a rookie as yet. Unless I missed one. I know Weardon was placed on the long term injury list, but I haven't heard that Rich or Berger were.

 

[brizrider]

Who came on for rich

Who came in? No one, yet. I don't think he's technically even on the long-term injured list yet. He and McGuane open up spots for rookies if the club wants. Sounds like Archie Smith is a chance.

 

[royboy2]

Yay,

Can we boo him?