Preview Changes v Demons, Round 2 (upgraded to official preview)

[M Malice]

Not keen on bringing Lyons in. We need run and Lyons will not give us any of that.

Agree, for me Lyons only comes in if Neale or Dunkley are injured.

 

[3KZ is Football]

Not keen on bringing Lyons in. We need run and Lyons will not give us any of that.

I think we need hands on the ball and he will give us that.

 

[Dalions]

I think we need hands on the ball and he will give us that.

After that performance we definitely need more contested/inside help but at the same time we need run.
Sooo good luck with that one for the coaching staff.

 

[briztoon]

In: Zorko, Joyce
Out: Tunstill, Coleman (concussion)

Joyce to go back in lieu of Rayner. Zorko to half back. Rayner to move onto the ball. I think we saw a player ready to break out yesterday but ultimately played a role for the team down back. He's shown a lot of development in the past three weeks in terms of winning uncontested footy all the while still excelling in winning contested ball.

I want us to start with Neale, Rayner and Dunkley on Friday night. It is time and he is ready.

I’d rather push Wilmot back, replacing Coleman. With Joyce coming in for Rayner.

Rayner in to the centre and McCluggage to a wing.

Prior in for Berry, and Zorko in for Tunstill.

 

[Nathan Barley]

I think as Fages said we did alright at getting hands on the footy. It was everything after that which was awful

 

[martinson]

I’d rather push Wilmot back, replacing Coleman. With Joyce coming in for Rayner.

Rayner in to the centre and McCluggage to a wing.

Prior in for Berry, and Zorko in for Tunstill.

I'm wondering myself whether we push McCluggage to a wing and get some bigger bodies into the M/F against Melbourne . Wilmot's got a way to go but he'll give us more run off half back. Melbourne will obliterate us with the M/F/Wing set up we had yesterday.

 

[M Malice]

With this being a Friday night game is it usual we would hear the side on a Wednesday evening or is that only for Thursday night games?

 

[Tom14]

With this being a Friday night game is it usual we would hear the side on a Wednesday evening or is that only for Thursday night games?

Only for Thursday night games. Team will come out on Thursday.

 

[Quested]

If there was an alternative I'd have Oscar out, but I think at least he should be second ruck.

 

[scoman]

Clugga, Neale and Ashcroft are all/ will be terrific players obviously. But none of them are going to bash, crash and blast their way through any decent midfield. Adding Dunkley should help, but it's not enough. A combination of Dev, Berry and Raynor need to be playing minutes in the middle. If that doesn't work, we have to go back to guys like Lyons and Matho.

Grasshopper (I think it was) pointed out that the combination of Dunkley, Neale and Ashcroft was getting spanked in one of the intraclubs by Matho and a couple of others (can't recall who). The next week I watched as a starting group of Neale, Ashcroft and Dunkley with Bailey and Clugga swapping in, was demolished (in centre clearances) by Matho, Lyons and Berry. It didn't really matter as they obviously showed their class around the ground and belted the VFL boys.

Games against Sydney and Geelong also didn't go very well in the centre clearances. I mentioned it on one of the threads, but plenty were keen to dismiss it as some kind of anomaly, it will even out, it will be fine, have faith.

I hope it evens out. I don't think it will. The personnel are not going to match the stronger teams in that department and I have no faith in our coaching staff to put in place structures that will work. We need more physical players in the middle for centre clearances at the very least.

 

[Squizz89]

I think Cam has to go into the guts too myself.

I’m with Nunez on this one. It’s time for Cam to put this team on his back and carry everyone along with him. We all know he has the talent and we also knew it was going to be a slow burn and the ACL didn’t help that either, but it’s time now. He’s got the X factor that all teams need in their midfield. It’s time to just accept the good with the bad but stay consistent with it and let him grow in there.

Edit I fully expect this not to happen though as once Fages and/or this coaching staff have an idea in their head they’ll continue to push it for as long as possible.

 

[Nunez]

I’d rather push Wilmot back, replacing Coleman. With Joyce coming in for Rayner.

Rayner in to the centre and McCluggage to a wing.

Prior in for Berry, and Zorko in for Tunstill.

So long as Joyce comes in and Rayner plays on ball I am happy!

 

[Viceregal]

When the team was announced no melts.

Guessing if the same team gets announced this week (give the right team the chance to use the right brain and heart etc) the response will be somewhat less ... ameanible

 

[M Malice]

I can't see any chance that the coaches would decide to play Cam Rayner in the midfield for any significant amount of time unfortunately.

 

[3KZ is Football]

I think as Fages said we did alright at getting hands on the footy. It was everything after that which was awful

Yep. The look away handballs were a particularly bad look.

 

[scoman]

The way I saw our midfield group functioning prior to the intraclubs/ preseason was:

Starting: Oscar, Neale, Rayner and Dunkley with Clugga and Berry on the wings

Ashcroft to spend about 60% of his time on the wing, sharing with Clugga and maybe 20% game time on the ball

Clugga would spend about 40% wing and 50% on the ball

Berry to play almost 100% game time on the other wing with perhaps one or two quick breathers covered by Dev.

Dev to play primarily on the ball starting on the bench.

Zorko to play as a pressure/ defensive forward.

Didn't see Bailey playing in the middle either.

The idea was never to have Neale, Ashcroft and Clugga together at once. In fact, for close to half of the game there would be two of Dunkley, Dev and Rayner in the middle.


Anyway that's how I saw it prior to it becoming apparent that the coaching staff were looking at Ashcroft on the ball with Clugga, Neale, Dunkley and Bailey. Rayner had been sent to the backline and Dev was more likely to play wing/ forward.

 

[briztoon]

Clugga, Neale and Ashcroft are all/ will be terrific players obviously. But none of them are going to bash, crash and blast their way through any decent midfield. Adding Dunkley should help, but it's not enough. A combination of Dev, Berry and Raynor need to be playing minutes in the middle. If that doesn't work, we have to go back to guys like Lyons and Matho.

Grasshopper (I think it was) pointed out that the combination of Dunkley, Neale and Ashcroft was getting spanked in one of the intraclubs by Matho and a couple of others (can't recall who). The next week I watched as a starting group of Neale, Ashcroft and Dunkley with Bailey and Clugga swapping in, was demolished (in centre clearances) by Matho, Lyons and Berry. It didn't really matter as they obviously showed their class around the ground and belted the VFL boys.

Games against Sydney and Geelong also didn't go very well in the centre clearances. I mentioned it on one of the threads, but plenty were keen to dismiss it as some kind of anomaly, it will even out, it will be fine, have faith.

I hope it evens out. I don't think it will. The personnel are not going to match the stronger teams in that department and I have no faith in our coaching staff to put in place structures that will work. We need more physical players in the middle for centre clearances at the very least.

What I find frustrating is that we all saw this in the intra clubs, but nothing appears to have been done about it.

It’s ok for our first stringers to out class our reserves around the ground, but come the season proper, we’re not playing our reserves. We’re playing teams with other good players.

Our midfield got spanked by three kids (and Ollie Wines) who are all younger than Rayner.

 

[briztoon]

The way I saw our midfield group functioning prior to the intraclubs/ preseason was:

Starting: Oscar, Neale, Rayner and Dunkley with Clugga and Berry on the wings

Ashcroft to spend about 60% of his time on the wing, sharing with Clugga and maybe 20% game time on the ball

Clugga would spend about 40% wing and 50% on the ball

Berry to play almost 100% game time on the other wing with perhaps one or two quick breathers covered by Dev.

Dev to play primarily on the ball starting on the bench.

Zorko to play as a pressure/ defensive forward.

Didn't see Bailey playing in the middle either.

The idea was never to have Neale, Ashcroft and Clugga together at once. In fact, for close to half of the game there would be two of Dunkley, Dev and Rayner in the middle.


Anyway that's how I saw it prior to it becoming apparent that the coaching staff were looking at Ashcroft on the ball with Clugga, Neale, Dunkley and Bailey. Rayner had been sent to the backline and Dev was more likely to play wing/ forward.

I would prefer to play a similar set up. My only caveat would be that I still don’t see Rayner having the tank to play through the midfield beyond centre bounces, or stoppages forward of centre.

We would have to have a midfielder or mid-forward who can swap over with Rayner if the opposition wins the ball, and it becomes a midfield contest.

 

[scoman]

I would prefer to play a similar set up. My only caveat would be that I still don’t see Rayner having the tank to play through the midfield beyond centre bounces, or stoppages forward of centre.

We would have to have a midfielder or mid-forward who can swap over with Rayner if the opposition wins the ball, and it becomes a midfield contest.

I have thought about that option too, perhaps similar in what Collingwood have done with DeGoey in the past or Essendon with Stringer. The guy I would see him swapping with would be Clugga.

I would prefer to see genuine minutes, even limited minutes over that option though. Start quarters with Rayner, play two or three minutes then down forward or off. A goal is scored and back to the middle he goes etc.... As opposed to swapping immediately after the centre clearance.

 

[On the quiet]

I think regardless if it's a disappointing season or not we need to upgrade our line coaches. Cam Bruce was midfield coach at Carlton when Carlton were rubbish so it beats me why we hired him in the first place. Adcock has had his time, I couldn't even tell ya who the other line coach is.

We've signed Fagan for another 2yrs, and I think he is probably one of the best man managers out there but he does lack a bit of strategy and tactical nouse. Because of that he's relying on his line coaches to provide that, and the line coaches aren't up to it. I think it's fine for a head coach to rely on his troops to a degree, but his troops have to provide quality feedback and alternatives.

Time will come when Fages tenure is up but let's get him some "A" grade assistants before it comes to that. It will improve the team, improve Fagan and improve our flag chances.

As for a replacement for Fages, when it's due, I think we will be needing a young exciting innovative coach to come on board. The only one I can think of atm, one that not only has the bones required but a real meaning to the club is McRae. Talk to him now, tell him we want him bad when his contract at the pies is up. Line him up for the future.

To me it makes a lot of sense to upgrade our assistants giving Fages better support, better coaching and better feedback. It also gives Fagans contract extension a chance to continue success, until we can poach Fly to take over without the need to rebuild.

yeap mention this last year that if we don't make a GF in 2023, could be argued we have regressed, and our line coaches some of whom have been here for sometime might need to be moved on. Davis was the backs coach last year and he has moved now into the forwards coach.

 

[Dalions]

I can't see any chance that the coaches would decide to play Cam Rayner in the midfield for any significant amount of time unfortunately.

I think it would be a little harsh on Cam to throw him in the guts and expect him to perform straight off the bat after training with the defenders for the whole pre-season.

 

[Dalions]

Yep. The look away handballs were a particularly bad look.

Unfortunately our blokes aren’t Scott Pendlebury.

 

[On the quiet]

I think out backline has been crying out for a Luke Ryan type of player, Rayner could be that plus more. His impact can be replaced in the forward line, by all accounts he doesn’t have the tank to go in the middle, if he did it would be a no brained to play him there though, he stopped more than a couple of goals yesterday IMO.
Something is missing in our mix but it isn’t Rayner playing down back.

Only a very small sample size on one game, but whilst Andrews and Payne are locked in to a 1 v 1, Cam with his leap could develop into that intercept type marker. Starc and Kiddy do it on the odd occasion but not enough.

FWIW like many here I thought we had to try something midway through the 3rd Q and Cam should have went into the midfield.

 

[Scubaveg]

We were short a mid last year, all we’ve done is replace lyons with Dunkley. Still short another strong inside mid. Lyons should come back in for tunstill. Zorko for Kiddy. Push Willmot back to replace
Kiddy. Bailey to the wing and Zorko defensive forward.


Sent from my iPhone using BigFooty.com

 

[On the quiet]

If fully fit I think our best wing options are Berry and Ah Chee, would not be against Hippy doing it for short periods as you say.

Berry when fit is a lock for the wing.