Unofficial Preview Changes vs Freo

[PattyKwasagun]

This will be a tricky one. Payne was awful, but he has well & truly got enough credits in the bank for another go. Think it would be a mistake to drop him. So I'll keep it simple & go...

In: McKenna, Dev
Out: Kiddy, Lohmann

 

[Elixuh]

Out: Kiddy, Lyons
In: McKenna, Dev

 

[JasRulz63]

Be interesting to see how long we stick with the Gardiner up forward experiment. He wasn't the worst but I can't see us ending the season with it.

Thought Lyons played OK tonight, but his lack of spread might be a concern on a big ground like Optus Oval and a Freo midfield that isn't as slow.

 

[McIvor]

In McKenna and Dev if available and Prior for Kiddy and Fort for O
Out Lohmann, Jerry Jaspa and O for significant stints
Zorks for sub too

 

[Grasshopper17]

The biggest and most crucial change needs to be what we do at the end of quarters. I've analysed our red time performance tonight - that's the last 5 minutes (according to the countdown clock) of each quarter.

Carlton kicked 4-2 (26). We kicked 1 behind.

Personnel shmersonnel. This is where our biggest value-add will come, if we can sort out the absolute rubbish we've dished up at the end of quarters, both in the Grand Final and in Round 1.

 

[Berrygood]

Gee's how many changes could be made and how many will be made.

End the Gardiner fwd experiment now. I'd be good with Darcy going back and Payne given time to reach some form and fitness in the ressies. But I fear Fagan will want to carry on with this folly, so unless Joyce is performing I think Payne stays.

Berry could also use some time in the ressies. Build some confidence, work on his skills and decision making. But again I think he'll be given a Mulligan. He is a player that needs a few games to run into form. I'd rather see it happen in the 2nds but unlikely to be dropped because I think with Kiddy out, Wilmot will spend less time on the wing and Berry will be needed. His run is still good, he gets into position to get the ball and defend but his kicking and decision making let's him down. Maybe Answerth an option if he is dropped.

While I think Lyons had a reasonable game and his stats probably suggest that, I still think he gets found out for pace n spread. If Dev is good to go he comes in for Lyons. If not Lyons plays until Dev is ready. Tunstill was good preseason by reports but I think Fagan favours Lyons at the moment.

McKenna straight in for Kiddy. Easy one there. Although I hope that hammy is 100% because if it's not and he pings it again and he's out for a further 4-6 weeks we're in real strife. If we take the cautious route with McKenna maybe Prior gets a run. As it is with Kiddy likely out all season one of Prior or Answerth will have to step up.

Lohmann struggles to hold in my opinion. There's nothing he does that Ah Chee can't do and do better. I think for the balance of the team there are greater needs and better options for balance than Lohmann.

I'm keeping Zorks in the 22, he's still one of the best kicks in the side. Rarely misses a target.

And I completely agree with Grasshopper17, we have to be better strategically. Gotta be better in red time. 4-2, 26 to 1 point, it's not good enough.

Hoping to see some real changes next week. If not in personnel then definitely in attitude, commitment and strategy.

 

[M Malice]

Outs- Keidean Coleman, Jarryd Lyons

17

Jarryd Lyons

Age

32

Ht

184cm

Wt

86kg

Pos.

Mid

Career

Season

Last 5

D

20.5

5star

K

11.8

4star

HB

8.7

5star

M

2.9

3star

T

4.4

5star

CL

4.8

5star

D

21.7

5star

K

14.7

5star

HB

7.0

4star

M

3.4

3star

T

5.1

5star

CL

4.7

5star

D

11.0

3star

K

5.2

2star

HB

5.8

4star

M

1.8

2star

T

2.0

4star

CL

1.6

4star

.

Ins- Connor McKenna, Dev Robertson.

In saying that I thought Lyons was pretty good last night, I just think he effects our defensive transition too much, Dev Offers so much more in that area of the game. If Connor doesn't get up Jaxon Prior gets what could be his final chance to cement an AFL spot, he's OOC this year.

On notice- Jarrod Berry

7

Jarrod Berry

Age

26

Ht

192cm

Wt

89kg

Pos.

Mid

Career

Season

Last 5

D

17.4

4star

K

8.5

3star

HB

8.9

5star

M

3.9

4star

T

4.2

5star

CL

2.7

4star

D

17.0

4star

K

9.4

4star

HB

7.6

4star

M

3.6

4star

T

5.1

5star

CL

2.9

4star

D

10.6

3star

K

4.4

2star

HB

6.2

4star

M

1.8

2star

T

2.8

5star

CL

0.8

3star

goes missing too much. Jack Payne was horrid last night sadly, still like Jack long term but he seems like a player that needs lots of game time, when do the reserves start playing? VFL practice matches?

 

[Berrygood]

The biggest and most crucial change needs to be what we do at the end of quarters. I've analysed our red time performance tonight - that's the last 5 minutes (according to the countdown clock) of each quarter.

Carlton kicked 4-2 (26). We kicked 1 behind.

Personnel shmersonnel. This is where our biggest value-add will come, if we can sort out the absolute rubbish we've dished up at the end of quarters, both in the Grand Final and in Round 1.

I got bugger all sleep last night. Couldn't stop thinking about this red time issue. Whether you call it that or whether it's protecting a lead, or taking time off the clock, or shutting down the game, or whatever you want to call it. It's just not working.

Then it took me back to the same criticism my Collingwood supporting brother in law had of Buckley's coaching. Pies lost the GF v Eagles by shutting down early, doing what we're doing now. Doing what we did in our GF loss to them. The next year they dropped to 4th doing it again. The following year was a drop to 6th and nothing had changed. The next season was their disaster year. Same mentality compounded by lots of injuries, the coach gets sacked and the board is a mess. McRae comes in, says that will be the end of that, we will compete and attack the whole game, we'd rather go down swinging than covering up. Look how it's turned out for them.

It's gotta be the way we play going fwd. That's how we will confidently take that next jump in our game. If not I can see the same demise happening to us. The lesson is there infront of us, it's time the coaching took notice. We seem to, at this stage, be intent on trying to take this failing tactic and get better at it by any means necessary, rather than taking the game by the scruff of the neck and have a real attacking go at it.

Sure, we may be able to get away with that current strategy against the lower placed teams but against anyone of quality that can spread and move the ball quickly it's a dud.

Gee's I'm glad I got that out of my head. I might be able to get a nap in now.

 

[rye]

In: McKenna, Robertson, Lohmann
Out: Coleman, Payne, Lyons

we looked much better with a 2 kpf structure to end last season and on form gardiner needs to hold his spot over payne as the foil to andrews

 

[martinson]

I got bugger all sleep last night. Couldn't stop thinking about this red time issue. Whether you call it that or whether it's protecting a lead, or taking time off the clock, or shutting down the game, or whatever you want to call it. It's just not working.

Then it took me back to the same criticism my Collingwood supporting brother in law had of Buckley's coaching. Pies lost the GF v Eagles by shutting down early, doing what we're doing now. Doing what we did in our GF loss to them. The next year they dropped to 4th doing it again. The following year was a drop to 6th and nothing had changed. The next season was their disaster year. Same mentality compounded by lots of injuries, the coach gets sacked and the board is a mess. McRae comes in, says that will be the end of that, we will compete and attack the whole game, we'd rather go down swinging than covering up. Look how it's turned out for them.

It's gotta be the way we play going fwd. That's how we will confidently take that next jump in our game. If not I can see the same demise happening to us. The lesson is there infront of us, it's time the coaching took notice. We seem to, at this stage, be intent on trying to take this failing tactic and get better at it by any means necessary, rather than taking the game by the scruff of the neck and have a real attacking go at it.

Sure, we may be able to get away with that current strategy against the lower placed teams but against anyone of quality that can spread and move the ball quickly it's a dud.

Gee's I'm glad I got that out of my head. I might be able to get a nap in now.

It's stood out like a dog's niagaras for quite a while now and cost us a flag so if that's not enough to change the strategy then we don't deserve to get better.

If nothing's wrong with Payne his effort last night was so below acceptable that he should be dropped . Anyone could do better.

McKenna and Dev come in. With Kiddy obviously out.

Taking last night on its own Oscar should go for Fort but that won't happen.

I haven't seen anything from Kai that indicates he knows what to do when he's out there but he's only a very young player and that's not definitive. But it's Tunstill for me for now.

 

[Nathan Barley]

I wouldn't and Fagan definitely won't be dropping someone after 1 game.

Another shocker from Payne and Berry though against Freo could make them difficult to select against Collingwood

 

[martinson]

I wouldn't and Fagan definitely won't be dropping someone after 1 game.

Another shocker from Payne and Berry though against Freo could make them difficult to select against Collingwood

If Payne isn't carrying something his attitude isn't anywhere near the level required.

Built like a Colossus the first thing you would do is put your body in.

We know he can do it. Why isn't he?

 

[notliondown]

The biggest and most crucial change needs to be what we do at the end of quarters. I've analysed our red time performance tonight - that's the last 5 minutes (according to the countdown clock) of each quarter.

Carlton kicked 4-2 (26). We kicked 1 behind.

Personnel shmersonnel. This is where our biggest value-add will come, if we can sort out the absolute rubbish we've dished up at the end of quarters, both in the Grand Final and in Round 1.

And it's these periods where we tend to try and shut down the game most. Some of it has to be strategy and coached. I just don't believe our game style of fast movement translates to slow play at any time... and I can't understand why we persist in trying to make it happen.

 

[Nathan Barley]

If Payne isn't carrying something his attitude isn't anywhere near the level required.

Built like a Colossus the first thing you would do is put your body in.

We know he can do it. Why isn't he?

It's his concentration. Pretty sure both he and the coaches have said this publicly.

But we know he's capable. Unfortunately for him Dizzy is looking fit. Unfortunately for us, Payne finding form is a pretty crucial part of our premiership chances

 

[martinson]

It's his concentration. Pretty sure both he and the coaches have said this publicly.

But we know he's capable. Unfortunately for him Dizzy is looking fit. Unfortunately for us, Payne finding form is a pretty crucial part of our premiership chances

100% we need Payne back to his form of early last year. Particularly now.

I suppose I wouldn't drop him either but if there's nothing wrong with him maybe we need some more intensive work on the mental side of his game. I thought he was just foxing in the practice games but last night was worse than that if it were possible.

 

[notliondown]

There won't be major changes I promise you. And to a degree I understand that. You don't get the best out of people with continual threats and retribution and based on last year making a GF these guys DO deserve some leeway even if it doesn't feel that way right now.

Neither Neale nor Berry had a preseason and will get some slack... justifiably.
Kiddy... well... what do you say. Confirmed ACL... that's just utterly shit.

The bigger concerns for me right now are Oscars effectiveness, Charlies yips, Paynes lack of progress, Rayners inconsistency and Lyons one dimensional play. Oh and Joe being Joe but that will never change.

Worryingly most of those are carry on's from last year.

Time will be the only cure for Charie, Jack and Cam. And while there is no one better in the VFL team those guys will be allowed to work it out in the ones.

Prepare for more of the same... and cross your fingers for some signs of improvement.

 

[M Malice]

I can't believe that some in various threads are saying that Chris Fagan should get the chop or even be under pressure right now for his job.

Hello! We we're 1 kick away from winning a flag 6 months ago.

 

[martinson]

There won't be major changes I promise you. And to a degree I understand that. You don't get the best out of people with continual threats and retribution and based on last year making a GF these guys DO deserve some leeway even if it doesn't feel that way right now.

Neither Neale nor Berry had a preseason and will get some slack... justifiably.
Kiddy... well... what do you say. Confirmed ACL... that's just utterly s**t.

The bigger concerns for me right now are Oscars effectiveness, Charlies yips, Paynes lack of progress, Rayners inconsistency and Lyons one dimensional play. Oh and Joe being Joe but that will never change.

Worryingly most of those are carry on's from last year.

Time will be the only cure for Charie, Jack and Cam. And while there is no one better in the VFL team those guys will be allowed to work it out in the ones.

Prepare for more of the same... and cross your fingers for some signs of improvement.

If it had been close all night and we went down you suck that up. It was the way in which we lost exposing the same issues that we'd talked our way through after the GF and the way teams are ready for our tactics when we go into defensive mode.

It's only Round 1 so there's lots of time and things to work on. If Kiddy hadn't gone down I wouldn't be particularly concerned but that's put a pall over everything and I'm sure we're all feeling for him.

 

[briztoon]

I can't believe that some in various threads are saying that Chris Fagan should get the chop or even be under pressure right now for his job.

Hello! We we're 1 kick away from winning a flag 6 months ago.

We shouldn’t have been that close. Collingwood comprehensively outplayed us in the GF.

 

[M Malice]

We shouldn’t have been that close. Collingwood comprehensively outplayed us in the GF.

I have not watched a replay of the GF and never will but at the game it felt like the Magpies were the better side for much of the game but definitely not comprehensively outplayed IMO, we had some very good sections of the game.

Are you in the Fagan needs to go camp briz?

 

[_Big_D_]

I actually like Gardiner forward.

Imagine being Payne and moved to play forward in the last quarter. Rough.

I like AhChee but he does go missing.

Bailey was hard to spot all night.

Gee Charlie set shot is concerning. He looks like he expects to miss. His team mates seem to expect him to miss too.

The bench situation live was concerning. Lots of confusion with interchanges.

 

[The Flying Belgian]

Collingwood comprehensively outplayed us in the GF.

That's a wee bit of revisionism.

 

[Tom14]

Collingwood were better but we had a good chance.

Walking out of the MCG I did have the feeling that we may not be back again.

 

[Section 5]

Firstly, shocking news about Kiddy, so Brain (cat B Rookie) should now be upgraded not Reville.
They could do both if they wanted to with Ashcroft still a long way away.
Not many teams win when 45 points down which also means not many lose when in front by that margin.

First bounce i said to my daughter why are we playing our best & most consistent winger Berry at half back.
Also surprised Lyons was named in the starting 22 as he makes us slower and in my opinion one too many slow inside midfielders.
Carlton got control of the game because they had more run in the last 2.5 quarters.
My opinion without watching a replay which usually gives me a better perspective.

Wings
Ah Chee would have been a better choice at half back even though he asked Fagan to play him F/W last year.
Fletcher had 3 kicks and 7 handballs playing wing. Hopefully no 2nd year blues for him.
Ah Chee wing 16 disposals but only spent 18% forward of center.
Wing time early for McCluggage with him and Bailey filling in as relief at times during the game.

Midfielders (excluding wings).
Lyons had the stats on the board to get a game again next week, but he should not make the starting 22.
Rayners 15 disposals (same average as previous 2 years) extra midfield minutes did not excite me as he is also slow, powerful but slow covering the ground just like Lyons.
Our main midfielders:
Neale with 16 handballs well contained influence wise by Hewett again who had 27 disposals himself and 409 meters gained to Neal 211.
Dunkley doing another good job on Crisp but in doing so not much of an attacking midfielder for us.
Lyons 19 disposals with 9 tackles but that is what he does to cause another stoppage. No great impact in my opinion.
Rayner played 54% in defense so playing more midfield time kept him out of the forward area.
With those 4 inside midfield players, it is no wonder the Blues ran over us in the last 2.5 quarters.
Big O did not have a good game but was far from our worst.

Forwards
Some reasonably easy missed shots kept us from getting those 4 premiership points.
However, i don't blame that for the loss it was the Lions players lack of effort in Q2 & Q3 that cost us the game.
Defenders
Payne had a shocker but just needs to get back to his best. No good player gets dropped after one shocker.
But we now have a half back problem so be interesting to see who gets that slot.

Kiddy's replacement will it be an attacking role player or a more defensive type of role?

Team with McKenna still missing.
Out: Kiddy In: one of Dev, Tunstill
Lyons must be sub if Lohmann retained. or Out: Lohmann (Lyons to sub) In: one of Dev/Tunstill.
Zorko to HB, Berry to wing and Ah Chee forward/part of wing relief


With McKenna available
Out: Kiddy In: McKenna
Out: Lohmann In: Dev/Tunstill
Lyons to sub.
Zorko to HB, Berry to wing and Ah Chee forward/part of wing relief

 

[briztoon]

That's a wee bit of revisionism.

What? You believe I've said otherwise here or elsewhere?