Unofficial Preview Changes vs Freo

[Berrygood]

What is it with the goal kicking?

Are they spending enough time at training on it? I think I read or heard somewhere that prolonged goal kicking practice risks injury. Is that true? If not it's all I'd want the fwds to do next week.

Who is coaching or working on gaol kicking with this group? Do we need to get an expert in to do it? As soon as I see Hippy vear to his left on his approach I have little confidence in it. He's so much better when his approach is straight thru the line. Surely he knows that, why can't he do it? Is it that there's not enough practice for it to be automatic, or inbeded in muscle memory? Charlie looks so unsure of his drop punts, no faith in it.

Or is it all in their heads? Do we need a sports psychologist to get in there?

Year after year this has been an issue. Sometimes it just seems like nothing gets done about it.

 

[pod17]

I got bugger all sleep last night. Couldn't stop thinking about this red time issue. Whether you call it that or whether it's protecting a lead, or taking time off the clock, or shutting down the game, or whatever you want to call it. It's just not working.

Then it took me back to the same criticism my Collingwood supporting brother in law had of Buckley's coaching. Pies lost the GF v Eagles by shutting down early, doing what we're doing now. Doing what we did in our GF loss to them. The next year they dropped to 4th doing it again. The following year was a drop to 6th and nothing had changed. The next season was their disaster year. Same mentality compounded by lots of injuries, the coach gets sacked and the board is a mess. McRae comes in, says that will be the end of that, we will compete and attack the whole game, we'd rather go down swinging than covering up. Look how it's turned out for them.

It's gotta be the way we play going fwd. That's how we will confidently take that next jump in our game. If not I can see the same demise happening to us. The lesson is there infront of us, it's time the coaching took notice. We seem to, at this stage, be intent on trying to take this failing tactic and get better at it by any means necessary, rather than taking the game by the scruff of the neck and have a real attacking go at it.

Sure, we may be able to get away with that current strategy against the lower placed teams but against anyone of quality that can spread and move the ball quickly it's a dud.

Gee's I'm glad I got that out of my head. I might be able to get a nap in now.

Sadly I was the same! Could not agree more.
You could argue Carlton did a Collingwood to us last night. We were all over them, then they started attacking at all costs. Our ability to stifle momentum is awful, and clubs know it. Dare I say it, a bit of the old Ross Lyon or Paul Roos style needs to be applied.
Out: Coleman, Lohmann (still yet to see what others see in him - maybe he needs an extended run?)
In: McKenna, Robertsen

Lyons isn’t going to take us forward but I haven’t seen anything from Tunstill to suggest he deserves senior selection. Scary to say, but we are desperately missing Ashcroft - both his ability and what it does to our mix.

 

[briztoon]

I have not watched a replay of the GF and never will but at the game it felt like the Magpies were the better side for much of the game but definitely not comprehensively outplayed IMO, we had some very good sections of the game.

Are you in the Fagan needs to go camp briz?

I'm on the fence.

I find Fagans team selections often too conservative, i.e to keep selecting players that are obviously past it (Rich and Gunston), or a mix of players that just doesn't work (Lyons added to our current midfield players). Wedded to a three tall forward set up, and relying on very shallow midfield rotation.

I've been saying for a couple of seasons that our game plan doesn't stack up against certain styles/types of oppositions and tactics.

And I've also been saying for a few seasons that our team fitness is a real issue, as we appear to fatigue well before many of our opposition.

But our list isn't as deep as we'd hope for, or contain the players to play a different style. So Fagan's hands are sort of tied in terms of the style and tactics we play.

We had a lot of players have offseason surgery, obviously very late, Neale - hernia, Berry - shoulder, Payne - ankle, Robertson - wrist. We picked 3 of them last night, and all 3 had poor games.


However, would we be where we are now without Fagan? Highly unlikely.


There's a saying in sports that the rebuild coach rarely takes a team to a GF win. Often it's the coach after him that reaps the benefits of the hard work.

 

[Elixuh]

You don’t make wholesale changes to a team that dominated Carlton and lost because of a team wide lapse in concentration and focus.

 

[Gadzorks]

The biggest and most crucial change needs to be what we do at the end of quarters. I've analysed our red time performance tonight - that's the last 5 minutes (according to the countdown clock) of each quarter.

Carlton kicked 4-2 (26). We kicked 1 behind.

Personnel shmersonnel. This is where our biggest value-add will come, if we can sort out the absolute rubbish we've dished up at the end of quarters, both in the Grand Final and in Round 1.

And other teams know that and use it.

Surprised - thought it was better than that last night.

 

[Grasshopper17]

And other teams know that and use it.

Surprised - thought it was better than that last night.

I don't really think we did it late in the third and last quarters. Late in the 3rd we were behind so no point, and late in the last the ball was at Carlton's end the whole time so there was no such thing as "behind the ball" to put a spare into.

 

[The Flying Belgian]

What? You believe I've said otherwise here or elsewhere?

I withdraw the comment if you've said it before. It's merely hyperbole.

 

[briztoon]

I withdraw the comment if you've said it before. It's merely hyperbole.

I said it straight after the game, and multiple times since.

 

[The Flying Belgian]

I said it straight after the game, and multiple times since.

That's nice.

 

[Berrygood]

I feel a heap better about the loss after seeing Collingwood go down.

We may have kicked like crap, lost our structure, had some poor performers but we didn't get 18 goals kicked on us.

 

[McIvor]

I feel a heap better about the loss after seeing Collingwood go down.

We may have kicked like crap, lost our structure, had some poor performers but we didn't get 18 goals kicked on us.

I don’t. I’d rather a flag and having 18 kicked on us in round one the following year compared to losing a GF and shitting the bed and losing by a point in round one the following year but that’s just me.

 

[dlanod]

I don’t. I’d rather a flag and having 18 kicked on us in round one the following year compared to losing a GF and shitting the bed and losing by a point in round one the following year but that’s just me.

No doubt but unfortunately we don't get to retrospectively change the result of last year's Grand Final. He was talking about reactions to this week, not being a Pies supporter.

 

[3KZ is Football]

OUT: Berry, Payne, Coleman, Lohmann
IN: Robertson, McKenna, Prior, Tunstill

If Payne isn't carrying something his attitude isn't anywhere near the level required.

Built like a Colossus the first thing you would do is put your body in.

We know he can do it. Why isn't he?

Have a look at Payne’s complete non effort at the 2.51 mark of the highlights package. As soon as he hits the ground after attempting the spoil on Curnow, he simply stops and watches. There is zero effort and zero accountability. Curnow leaves him for dead. When the ball is on the ground Payne is hopeless and as you say martinson his attitude is completely below standard. The other issue with Payne is that he is just about the last person you would want with the ball in hand trying to engineer an exit from defensive 50. His hospital kick to McCluggage in the corridor moments later gave Carlton another goal. Payne’s form has been terrible since half way through last year. Gardiner, who is an absolute physical desperado in defence, needs to go straight into the backline. Payne may look a million dollars as a physical specimen, but he hasn’t been worth a cracker for a while now. Any other coach would drop him, but Fagan seems to have an inexhaustible pile of Mulligan Cards.

 

[Squizz89]

Could see live at the other end of the ground what looked like Payne almost “giving up” on a couple of those contents in the third quarter, which makes me think he has to be carrying something still. If not then his efforts were just quite bizarre.

Fages won’t drop him this week but if he produces the same effort (injury or not) he must come out for the Pies game.

 

[Hirsty23]

Out: Kiddy, Payne, Lyons
In: McKenna, Robertson, Prior

Payne badly needs a spell, hard to imagine a key forward not kicking atleast a few on him at the minute. Gardiner experiment ends and he goes down back, it's nothing personal he tried his guts out in the role but our best footy has always been with 2 tall forwards. The coaches insistence on setting up otherwise is perplexing.

This teams better when Lyons doesn't play, at the most he should be the sub. He's got no burst of speed and his lack of transition defence becomes a gigantic issue when teams get a run on. Robertson doesn't get a lot of the ball but his defensive grit is superb, I think we missed him during that 3rd quarter on Friday.

Good chance to have another look at Prior I reckon.

 

[rubbers0ul]

In McKenna and Dev if available and Prior for Kiddy and Fort for O
Out Lohmann, Jerry Jaspa and O for significant stints
Zorks for sub too

zorks for sub????? He’s about to be your #1 distributor in the back half this year


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[3KZ is Football]

Could see live at the other end of the ground what looked like Payne almost “giving up” on a couple of those contents in the third quarter, which makes me think he has to be carrying something still. If not then his efforts were just quite bizarre.

Fages won’t drop him this week but if he produces the same effort (injury or not) he must come out for the Pies game.

He’s had too many chances. It is inconceivable that he comes into the opening round carrying an injury, when we have the option of a fit Gardiner. But let’s imagine that he was proppy or suspect or underdone, what does it say about Fagan that in a week where we are playing quality opposition and with our defence weakened due to McKenna’s absence, you ‘risk’ Payne and play a fit and hungry Gardiner as a forward? Tactically, why would you load up a forward line that is at FULL STRENGTH and not put resources into defence, as I say, if we ‘imagine’ Payne was less than 100%? Friday night really confirmed what those of us who are honest have been saying for a while, Fagan is a poor tactician and that REALLY becomes apparent in big games.

 

[rye]

thought it was pretty notable our best footy against carlton was when zorko was heavily involved

he is still quite an important player for us whether many would like to admit it or not

 

[Fagenslions36]

Lots of pot shots at Payne haven’t seen much levelled at Andrews . Gave away 3 goals I can think of the dropped mark end of quarter 2 unforgivable . Allowed huge amount of seperation at end for McKay to get on end of it . As poor a leaders performance I have seen In a long time .

 

[whizkizz]

Lots of pot shots at Payne haven’t seen much levelled at Andrews . Gave away 3 goals I can think of the dropped mark end of quarter 2 unforgivable . Allowed huge amount of seperation at end for McKay to get on end of it . As poor a leaders performance I have seen In a long time .

Wasn't my take on the game.

Thought at half time Harris and Ah Chee were probably two of our best performers.

He didn't manage to get a spoil on that last kick forward to Harry, but I'm not going to crucify him for dropping a mark. He wasn't the only player to do that, seemed like it was extra slippery on Friday.

 

[scoman]

Team I would like to see:

Lester Payne Starce
Wilmot Andrews McKenna
Clugga Dunkley Berry
Bailey Hipwood Ah Chee
Cameron Daniher Gardiner

Oscar Neale Rayner

Zorko (def) Fletcher (wing) Dev (Mid/wing) Linc (fwd)

Sub: Lyons (game slows down and he can be more effective later in games)



So that's out - Coleman , Lohman for McKenna and Dev

 

[RoyBoy17]

One of the things that really impressed me with the Giants last night was how hard their forwards work. The get up and down the ground and their pressure was excellent.

This is a big issue in our team. Our forward group is a little lazy and switch off a lot. I think we need to start trying something different personnel wise. Maybe bring Harry Sharp in and use his endurance in the forward half more. Would also bring in Robertson if fit.

The back 6 or 7 that ended that game last week should start this week. That means Gardiner back and Payne omitted for mine.

Freo always give us trouble over there so I’m expecting a really tough game. Going to have to be at our best.

 

[ThePhilosopher]

Jack Payne is not that guy

Too often have I seen him punch the ball out of a teammate who almost certainly has the mark's hands

 

[Scubaveg]

Out Lyons Kiddy
In McKenna Dev


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[Section 5]

Looks like BF has gone from if Payne plays in the GF we most likely win the game.
To drop Payne after a bad performance.