Chris Judd and Nathan Buckley: Who's better at their best

[smiddaz123]

I'll throw in some more quotes, just for the hell of it.

Page 203:

Dannis Pagan (then coach of North Melbourne: "We were going to tag Nathan that day, but then he moved onto Wayne and he was outstanding; probably best-on-grounf. Nathan was such a talented, versitile player. I must say there weren't many players who had Wayne's measure through that period".

Wayne Carey: "Bucks was a great player - he could play anywhere, as he showed that day when he had a good game and I had a poor one".

So far, the following people beleive Buckley beat Carey.

Me/Double07/igniter/BEEG/most collingwood fans.
Dennis Pagan
Wayne Carey himself
The umpires giving the Brownlow votes
Buckley himself

The following think Buckley did not beat Carey:

Claude Balls


It's a toughie.

 

[iGNITER]

So "gave him a bath" has now been revised to "came out even".

Doesn't quite have the same ring to it.

So let's recap some of the revised claims now:

Buckley once came out even from a head to head clash with Carey.

Buckley almost had the most clearances in 2003.

i had the wrong year....
look at '96 u will see he did give him a touch up....

so all in all bet him once then came out even with him another time...
Gee what a handy CHB

 

[smiddaz123]

i had the wrong year....
look at '96 u will see he did give him a touch up....

so all in all bet him once then came out even with him another time...
Gee what a handy CHB

If he had the kicking ability of superstar like Nathan Brown then he might've even won a Brownlow.


Waiting a minute......

 

[Claude Balls]

So far, the following people beleive Buckley beat Carey.

Me/Double07/igniter/most collingwood fans.
Dennis Pagan
Wayne Carey himself
The umpires giving the Brownlow votes
Buckley himself

The following think Buckley did not beat Carey:

Claude Balls

It's a toughie.

You won't be able to sleep at night until I'm sitting in the other group, will you?

 

[smiddaz123]

Oh I gave up trying to convince you a while ago, you've obviously made up your mind on this issue, and did so long ago. You came into the argument with the aim to manipulated all facts in Judd's favour, instead of looking at facts then deciding. The Carey game is a prime example. After that failed you resorted to what you're now doing. COmments like 'you can't sleep tonight because of so and so'.

I'm more or less just providing the facts, and am pretty amused as how you're ignoring them.

No sweat if you're not going to admit that Buckley beat Carey, You know it, I know it, everyone knows that it happened.

I reckon you should give Carey a buzz and let him know that he actually beat Buckley. It'll lift his spirits I reckon, because at the moment he's under the impression he was beaten.

What would he know I guess....it isn't like he can show us a youtube video of it like you wanted.

 

[BEEG]

You won't be able to sleep at night until I'm sitting in the other group, will you?

Claude Balls

I have seen you have so many arguments with people over big footy and have always come out wrong lol just stop putting yourself in this positions

Smiddaz123 can you put me in the list hahaha

Good work by the way love it when the big footy know it alls get put in there places

 

[Salamander Man]

At his best, Judd is a phenomonal midfielder, the best I have seen.

Buckley was a good kick though. I guess that's something.

Joking, Buckey was also an excellent midfielder, but if we're talking about peak performance, Judd was incredibly good before his injury in 07, I haven't seen another midfielder as dominant, would have romped away with the Brownlow that year. And he's getting back to that form.

 

[mint]

You won't be able to sleep at night until I'm sitting in the other group, will you?

you are the biggest flog on big footy. congratulations!!

 

[Claude Balls]

Oh I gave up trying to convince you a while ago, you've obviously made up your mind on this issue, and did so long ago. You came into the argument with the aim to manipulated all facts in Judd's favour, instead of looking at facts then deciding. The Carey game is a prime example. After that failed you resorted to what you're now doing. COmments like 'you can't sleep tonight because of so and so'.

I'm more or less just providing the facts, and am pretty amused as how you're ignoring them.

No sweat if you're not going to admit that Buckley beat Carey, You know it, I know it, everyone knows that it happened.

I reckon you should give Carey a buzz and let him know that he actually beat Buckley. It'll lift his spirits I reckon, because at the moment he's under the impression he was beaten.

What would he know I guess....it isn't like he can show us a youtube video of it like you wanted.

Smiddaz, I'll admit that I did take this thread on a somewhat Bay13ish path once the Carey factor was introduced. It was at this point that it struck me the thread was just too full of one eyed Collingwood supporters clutching at straws, despite the fact that Judd is winning the poll comfortably. If it makes you feel any better, I'll concede that Buckley had the better of Carey in 96. You won't however, change my opinion with respect to the Judd debate.

 

[Claude Balls]

Claude Balls

I have seen you have so many arguments with people over big footy and have always come out wrong lol just stop putting yourself in this positions

Smiddaz123 can you put me in the list hahaha

Good work by the way love it when the big footy know it alls get put in there places

Is that so BEEG, lose them ALL?! You must have been following me very closely.

 

[Kaiser Powser]

Is that so BEEG, lose them ALL?! You must have been following me very closely.

He's right Claude. I have researched it and you have seem to have lost all your arguements. You certainly lost the Buckley vs Carey one.

 

[skelly12]

Smiddaz, I'll admit that I did take this thread on a somewhat Bay13ish path once the Carey factor was introduced. It was at this point that it struck me the thread was just too full of one eyed Collingwood supporters clutching at straws, despite the fact that Judd is winning the poll comfortably. If it makes you feel any better, I'll concede that Buckley had the better of Carey in 96. You won't however, change my opinion with respect to the Judd debate.

On the contrary I would suggest that it is you who appears to be clutching at straws. I think that at Judds peak, which was only one or two years, he was better than Bucks. I just find it extremely annoying that you try and discount his talent and use such frivoulous arguments which have no statistical backing. Furthermore once your fictious arguments have been disproved you resort to childish comments such as "you won't sleep etc."

Pretty poor banter from you.

 

[tubbis]

Wikipedia as a source.. Are you serious? There would be nothing stopping you yourself getting on there typing that out and then quoting it on here.

Look.. if you're going to try and discredit me and/or my sources (good ol' Wikipedia), then at least substantiate your arguments with your own evidence. Don't just knock it off. At least Smiddz gave me a reasonable explanation that Bucks' clearances might have included finals.

Ugh.. fine make me waste more time researching Collingwood players then.

http://www.statzone.com.au/afl/player/495/josh-fraser/

Okay I'll compare it to the year prior to 2003 and the year prior as an indicator of how 2003 was his "breakout" year.
Year (no. of games): Disposals (avg disp), Marks (avg marks), Hitouts (avg HO), Tackles (avg Tackles)

2002 (25 games):269 disposals (10.75), 83 marks (3.32), 146 hitouts, 48 tackles

2003 (23 games):340 disposals (14.78), 106 marks, 300 hitouts, 60 tackles

2004 (18 games):275 disposals (15.28), 95 marks, 236 hitouts, 43 tackles.

Clearly much better in 2003. Happy now skelly12?

 

[skelly12]

Look.. if you're going to try and discredit me and/or my sources (good ol' Wikipedia), then at least substantiate your arguments with your own evidence. Don't just knock it off. At least Smiddz gave me a reasonable explanation that Bucks' clearances might have included finals.

Ugh.. fine make me waste more time researching Collingwood players then.

http://www.statzone.com.au/afl/player/495/josh-fraser/

Okay I'll compare it to the year prior to 2003 and the year prior as an indicator of how 2003 was his "breakout" year.
Year (no. of games): Disposals (avg disp), Marks (avg marks), Hitouts (avg HO), Tackles (avg Tackles)

2002 (25 games):269 disposals (10.75), 83 marks (3.32), 146 hitouts, 48 tackles

2003 (23 games):340 disposals (14.78), 106 marks, 300 hitouts, 60 tackles

2004 (18 games):275 disposals (15.28), 95 marks, 236 hitouts, 43 tackles.

Clearly much better in 2003. Happy now skelly12?

Yes but wasn't the basis of you bringing up Frasers statistics to justify Buckleys clearance rate in 2003? Well one thing that I would like to point out is that according to http://stats.rleague.com/afl/stats/2003s.html Fraser still had the second worse average hitouts per game for the 2003 season. His average of 13.04 hitouts per game was a long way behind the premier ruckmen in the competition including Steven King 26.23, Michael Gardiner 25.17 and Michael Clarke 24.41. It should also be noted that Sam Mitchell was roving to Peter Everitt who had an average of 23.57 per game.

Also in Judds dominant years at West Coast (2004, 2005, 2006) Dean Cox had the following average hitouts 22.26 23.80 21.38.

Also across Buckleys entire career at Collingwood the highest average hitouts he was prive to was 17.94 followed by 15.53. Clearly he never had the luxury of a dominant ruckman palming down to his advantage.....ever

 

[Muji]

sensitive pies supporters...
judds career hasnt even finished..

 

[DoubleO7]

sensitive pies supporters...
judds career hasnt even finished..

No, but he is a shadow of his former self.

 

[Claude Balls]

On the contrary I would suggest that it is you who appears to be clutching at straws. I think that at Judds peak, which was only one or two years, he was better than Bucks. I just find it extremely annoying that you try and discount his talent and use such frivoulous arguments which have no statistical backing. Furthermore once your fictious arguments have been disproved you resort to childish comments such as "you won't sleep etc."

Pretty poor banter from you.

Let me rephrase it for you: once a Collingwood fan mentioned that Buckley once gave Carey a 'bath' I stopped taking this thread seriously - insofar as I stopped articulating myself seriously with a view to advocating Judd's superiority.

You can regard my "sleeping at night" comment as simply a red flag, presented with only my own amusement in mind, and with all the childish immaturity that an internet forum warrants (particularly when dealing with Collingwood supporters). It sure gave me a kick to read Smiddaz's post, listing all those who believed Buckley beat Carey on one hand, and then the solitary renegade on the other - me. It basically represents how uptight you guys have been in this thread.

Anyway, just so you can nod off peacefully tonight, I concede Bucks beat Carey hands down in '96

 

[smiddaz123]

So you stopped taking this thread seriously when it was brought up, in a thread concerning a player, that he beat possibly the great CHF of all time as a CHB?

That isn't a relevant point for who is better at their best?

Whatever works for you I guess. I won't be sleeping tonight now. Damn.