Chris Scott's legacy if he gags in another finals series?

[Scotland]

I think Dawson Simpson was the last genuine ruckman we took in the draft. In 2007. You could argue Vardy in 2009, although even the club wasn't sure whether he was a key forward or ruckman for a good chunk of that (and neither was anyone else). But after that, no young draftee ruckman. Not one.

But you did bring in McIntosh and Smith. And there's always the Wallsy tactic with Blicavs.

 

[Partridge]

But you did bring in McIntosh and Smith. And there's always the Wallsy tactic with Blicavs.

Yep, I mean more drafting an actual young ruckman. Like Melbourne did with Gawn in 2009. The problem is you need patience to do that, and it really does seem for a lot of the time we just aren't prepared to show it.

 

[michaelk]

Has he done what some of us expected.

Leaving for bluer pastures??? The Blues rumor very strong now.
Did just as Brad did - left his list is a mess and moving on??

 

[Freomaniac]

I think i would prefer Ross the boss? I've been saying it for weeks, Geelong is the worst team in the top 8, my fellow Cats fans start crying when i say that because it means the era is finally over. But it's true! I tipped Port by 6 goals before the game, Cats have no chance next week either. It will be good for football if they missed the finals for a few years.

You are crazy lol

 

[JackFlash]

You are crazy lol

Be that as it may, the Cats have had their chances and last season was another disappointment. Not sure i can take another competitive season and then a finals collapse?

 

[Xtreme]

Be that as it may, the Cats have had their chances and last season was another disappointment. Not sure i can take another competitive season and then a finals collapse?

Whatever doesn't kill you makes you stronger

 

[jakkowiz]

Watch it. You will see that all of Geelong’s first 6-7 goals came from passages of play with umpiring errors in Geelong’s favour:


- a goal to Dahlhaus from a 10-12 metre pass from Hawkins
- a goal to Hawkins where he clearly infringed May with a push in the back, after a clear Selwood throw
- a goal to Cameron where he grabs Petty’s jumper and throws him to the ground in the goal square long before the ball was even in the vicinity
- a goal where Dangerfield clearly ran 21 metres with the ball before kicking(ok this seems a common umpire error these days, but it was an error)
- a goal resulting indirectly from a midfield tackle on a Melbourne player when he had no prior and the ball spilled out in the tackle.

I cannot recall the other 1-2 off the top of my head but anyone can do what I did and watch, slow each play down and watch again to see what was happening. Melbourne did not get any goals in the first half resulting from umpire errors. I wondered if I was seeing it right so I got someone else(also neutral) to look at it independently for me in detail, and he came to roughly similar conclusions.

I am not saying the umpires were biased, they just made errors or failed to spot certain things that showed up clearly on the replay. But of course in a “normal run” all the errors resulting in goals don’t run in favour of one team. So if you simply removed the effect of those errors, then the game would have been much closer at half time.

I don’t want to sound like a git but I bet pretty seriously on football and after studying that rd 23 match closely I had my biggest bet for the season on the Demons in the PF. For the record I rated the Demons about 12 scoring shots ahead of Geelong for the PF based mainly on that match, but due to accuracy trends I expected something like a 4 goal 8 behind win to the Demons. The ease of their victory surprised even me, but I did think any variation from my assessment was more likely to the upside for the Dees.

Have a look at it if you can be bothered, see what you think, you might then see what I mean.

I thought the exact same as you after that game and was really regretting that I did not put a pineapple on Melbourne by 60 plus

 

[Toump Ass]

Chris Scotts legacy: he’s the guy who was handed a premiership team from a methamphetamine dealer, coached the oldest AFL side ever and whinged a lot.
He also stuck around too long.

He’s got millions of dollars, he should f off and let someone else coach geelong. its rebuild time!

 

[WillHayward]

So is Ceglar first choice?
Where does this leave Rhys Stanley

1

Rhys Stanley

Age

33

Ht

200cm

Wt

102kg

Pos.

Ruck

Career

Season

Last 5

D

13.6

3star

K

7.2

3star

HB

6.4

4star

CL

3.4

5star

HO

27.6

5star

D

12.0

3star

K

7.5

3star

HB

4.5

3star

CL

5.0

5star

HO

21.5

5star

D

11.8

3star

K

5.4

2star

HB

6.4

4star

CL

3.0

5star

HO

33.0

5star

?

 

[My Tilly]

So is Ceglar first choice?
Where does this leave Rhys Stanley?

I think Ceglar would be first choice. Stanley has always been a journeyman. His best can be elite but those performances are usually 2 or 3 times per year.
With Celgar, you know what you are going to get. 25+ hitouts, 3 clearances and hopefully a handful of marks. I know it's still borderline B grade stuff, but at least there's a bit more consistency.
lol, Ceglar or Stanley . . . illustrates how pathetic our ruck stocks are at the moment.

 

[Freomaniac]

Whatever doesn't kill you makes you stronger

Thanks Vince Russo lol

 

[Seeds]

I think Ceglar would be first choice. Stanley has always been a journeyman. His best can be elite but those performances are usually 2 or 3 times per year.
With Celgar, you know what you are going to get. 25+ hitouts, 3 clearances and hopefully a handful of marks. I know it's still borderline B grade stuff, but at least there's a bit more consistency.
lol, Ceglar or Stanley . . . illustrates how pathetic our ruck stocks are at the moment.

Ceglar averaged 21 hit outs a game this season. In his best season ceglar averaged 23 hitouts a game and this was 5 years ago. Never got close to 25. Stanley averaged 21 hitouts a game this season and has had seasons averaging 27 and 28 a game.

ceglar is at best an equal of stanley but probably slightly behind. Stanley offers more arround the ground too.

 

[Obeanie1]

Whatever doesn't kill you makes you stronger

Like topping up with old farts instead of drafting quality kids and then start losing the kids you do have because of lack of opportunity.?

Clark and Constable.......Im betting their are a few unhappy Cats fans because of those two moving. And geez, how sweet it would be watching them impress at new clubs as Dad's Army finish 8th and dissappoint week 1 in finals.

Is that making a team stronger?

Wonder if Santa reads Big Footy?

 

[master bate]

Ceglar averaged 21 hit outs a game this season. In his best season ceglar averaged 23 hitouts a game and this was 5 years ago. Never got close to 25. Stanley averaged 21 hitouts a game this season and has had seasons averaging 27 and 28 a game.

ceglar is at best an equal of stanley but probably slightly behind. Stanley offers more arround the ground too.

Talent isn't Stanley's issue, it's that his worst games are just completely awful. Or worst quarters/halves.

Without looking it up I'd imagine Ceglar shared a lot of those games with McEvoy/Reeves where as Stanley played more consistent ruck minutes.

A big issue for the Cats is still working out how they want to structure Hawkins and Cameron and whether there's a clear cut role for Esava and if he's good enough. That then impacts the ruck minutes.

Hawkins keeps getting more well rounded as a player in terms of what he does when he gets the ball, but I think it's fair to say he's now pretty one dimensional with where he lines up. Deep to get one one ones. That then limits where you can set up the back up ruck.

Esava and Stanley might still get picked as the rucks because they can play up the ground or in space to get the heck out of Hawkins was where as Ceglar deep just becomes an invite for an extra defender at the Hawkins contest.

Jeremy Cameron complicates things too. If he wasn't a high price recruit I'd be getting him on a wing and even half back similar to the way the Hawks used Gunston at times because there's just going to be days with the way footy is played that he's not finding it forward. That's unless Geelong do actually get their ball movement absolutely humming. But that seems unlikely given they've been the kings of the chip around for years now.

This reply has got right off track but at the end of the day that's Geelong and Scott's issue. Trying to bring together a complex recipe with a lot of good ingredients but plenty of them at their used by date. Scott's been very good at it but it's hard to get the ultimate success building a team with so many rusty parts.

 

[The 747]

Talent isn't Stanley's issue, it's that his worst games are just completely awful. Or worst quarters/halves.

Spot on.

His good games are great, but those bad games....oh boy.

 

[The 747]

Like topping up with old farts instead of drafting quality kids and then start losing the kids you do have because of lack of opportunity.?

Clark and Constable.......Im betting their are a few unhappy Cats fans because of those two moving. And geez, how sweet it would be watching them impress at new clubs as Dad's Army finish 8th and dissappoint week 1 in finals.

Is that making a team stronger?

Wonder if Santa reads Big Footy?

Clark is a talented but lazy player, but you are high if you think anyone is unhappy Constable moved. Was offered to every club for free two years running and only got picked up because North rolled GCs for Greenwood. Most Cats fans are happy he will get a chance but he won't make it at AFL level.

 

[Seeds]

Talent isn't Stanley's issue, it's that his worst games are just completely awful. Or worst quarters/halves.

Without looking it up I'd imagine Ceglar shared a lot of those games with McEvoy/Reeves where as Stanley played more consistent ruck minutes.

A big issue for the Cats is still working out how they want to structure Hawkins and Cameron and whether there's a clear cut role for Esava and if he's good enough. That then impacts the ruck minutes.

Hawkins keeps getting more well rounded as a player in terms of what he does when he gets the ball, but I think it's fair to say he's now pretty one dimensional with where he lines up. Deep to get one one ones. That then limits where you can set up the back up ruck.

Esava and Stanley might still get picked as the rucks because they can play up the ground or in space to get the heck out of Hawkins was where as Ceglar deep just becomes an invite for an extra defender at the Hawkins contest.

Jeremy Cameron complicates things too. If he wasn't a high price recruit I'd be getting him on a wing and even half back similar to the way the Hawks used Gunston at times because there's just going to be days with the way footy is played that he's not finding it forward. That's unless Geelong do actually get their ball movement absolutely humming. But that seems unlikely given they've been the kings of the chip around for years now.

This reply has got right off track but at the end of the day that's Geelong and Scott's issue. Trying to bring together a complex recipe with a lot of good ingredients but plenty of them at their used by date. Scott's been very good at it but it's hard to get the ultimate success building a team with so many rusty parts.

I was speaking about the average. Not his best games. The average already includes his worst games and yet it's still better then ceglars

 

[Seeds]

Clark is a talented but lazy player, but you are high if you think anyone is unhappy Constable moved. Was offered to every club for free two years running and only got picked up because North rolled GCs for Greenwood. Most Cats fans are happy he will get a chance but he won't make it at AFL level.

LOl. Won't make it at all Level? He made it at all level in his first season at 19.

 

[The 747]

LOl. Won't make it at all Level? He made it at all level in his first season at 19.

Constable?

 

[Toump Ass]

Post-2011 premiership Scotty was like: "Get out Chapman! Get out Kelly! You too Enright, Stevie J, you're stinking up the joint!". I always thought that may have cost them a little bit because they were nice players and a little bit of astute trading/drafting and maybe another flag in the bag?

Ten years later not only are the oldies sticking around forever but they're getting new oldies in to replace the kids, like Higgins and Dollhouse and everyone else. What gives?!?

 

[E Shed]

Clark is a talented but lazy player, but you are high if you think anyone is unhappy Constable moved. Was offered to every club for free two years running and only got picked up because North rolled GCs for Greenwood. Most Cats fans are happy he will get a chance but he won't make it at AFL level.

Clark maybe took it as a boot up the ass cause he’s turned up in great shape & is at the pointy end of all the running drills & standing out in match sims. Being groomed purely as a high half back.


Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk

 

[Sttew]

Clark and Constable.......Im betting their are a few unhappy Cats fans because of those two moving. And geez, how sweet it would be watching them impress at new clubs as Dad's Army finish 8th and dissappoint week 1 in finals.

Good on them if they do make it at their new clubs. There are stories like those two at all clubs, where players couldn't get a regular game and turned the corner at a new club. It's not unique to Geelong.

I'm not unhappy with the departure of either.

Clark did SFA after his first season and he was from all accounts not well liked by his peers because he was lazy and thought he was hot. Figjam is the name bandied around.

Constable simply could not make the transition from an elite VFL'er to an AFL'er.

Football is a ruthless game.

 

[bungalow_bill]

You are crazy lol

Says a lot when a realistic rational opinion is called crazy!

 

[Elmer_Hauser]

He needs to win another flag for his overall coaching legacy, not just in Geelong terms over.

Having the best winning Home and Away season % coach is impressive, but unless he wins another premiership, he will be regarded as an underachiever at Geelong IMO

 

[Meteoric Rise]

He needs to win another flag for his overall coaching legacy, not just in Geelong terms over.

Having the best winning Home and Away season % coach is impressive, but unless he wins another premiership, he will be regarded as an underachiever at Geelong IMO

Just get close to winning one might be a start. The best effort since 2011 was probably the 2019 PF 19 point loss to the eventual dominant Premier. But even in that it was a no contest after half time. Similar story 2020 GF.

If you are Collingwood 2018, Swans 2016, GWS 2016, Port 2014, Freo 2103, at least you could say had a few things been marginally different, like umpiring decisions, accuracy shooting for goal etc we could have been Premiers. I am struggling to think of any seasons you could have fairly said that about the Cats.

To be clearly the second best team in the comp, or clearly in the top 4-5 in a given year is an achievement to be respected. The Cats under Scott have achieved these ratings. But to go 9 finals series in 10 seasons where in at least one match you are completely outplayed on merit, it tells you both that there has been something missing, and the club has not learned from and addressed the missing elements. To watch the Cats with their ageing team get marmalised twice in the 2021 finals series by genuine top 4 teams, I suspect everything would have to go right just to get back to the level of getting smashed in finals by genuine top 4 teams in 2022.

But they are stuck in major contracts with ageing former stars, which makes it tough to rebuild.

In any event, the recruitment of Ceglar just looks foolish to me. If the Cats, and especially Scott got it, you take a punt on some young ruck who is just about ready to hold his own in AFL now. Take the punt, it is a step towards the future, whether or not the player eventually succeeds. Ceglar is an ok player but he isn’t going to be giving Max Gawn, Lycett, etc sleepless nights going into finals, and he isn’t going to be smashing into the big bodied mids and clearing a path for his own team.

I admire this one thing about Scott, he had a philosophy and stuck to it to the bitter end. But now it is a failed philosophy and we are past the bitter end.

One of my most insightful but at the same time least enjoyable moments in country footy was as a 28yo I looked around the field one day and thought I am not even one of the senior players in this team, I am below the median age. The team went on to have some limited success, but I got out, went to c-c a club who possibly had the worst playing list in the state, but had some decent youth to look forward to. This was my most enjoyable time in footy despite us being smashed week after week on the scoreboard. I retired/left the country before that club became successful, but it went on to be extremely successful, and still is, probably now seen as one of the powerhouse country footy clubs in the state. The first team I was playing for has not given a yelp in over 20 years. The odd time I have gone to watch them play over the years since my departure I have not seen one encouraging sign. Just a club stuck in old long-failed philosophies on the merry-go-round trying to pick up any ready made players available on the circuit, for a price. Geelong would be closest to that of any AFL club right now. I doubt Scott will change and this will be his legacy. He wanted to coach mature players who were easy to coach. He must love the feeling of beating average and below average teams for fun. I can’t think of any other reason he would continue down the same path.

I don’t think there are that many great coaches who haven’t coached weak sides at different points. Even Hafey took over at Collingwood when they were wooden spooners. Barassi in later years had a crack with weaker teams. Clarkson, Malthouse, Sheedy. All had to deal with coaching weak teams. It is like Scott cannot face the prospect of being out of the limelight for the few seasons it might take to build a new young team into a competitive unit. That is how I see him, a person with what I would term the much despised “winner's” mentality. Ie he has to be put into a position of relative strength or he cannot cope.