Traded Chris Yarran [to Richmond for Pick 19]

[telsor]

The argument being made refers to yarran being the superior player to Ellis at any point in his career according to the afl official player rankings.

The ranking system is the most sophisticated statistical analyzer available to us, yet some are denying its capability to correctly value players, as in some cases it doesn't support their opinion.

The ranking system is not perfect, as with any ratings of anything, there will be anomalies, however it accurately supports Carlton people's opinion of yarran and I see no reason why we should alter this view. If we were to do this Chris Yarran would be the only player with his ratings at his age that is worth less than a first round pick

Many are of firm belief that through poor representation in the media, Carlton have a list of players that are chronically undervalued in the perceptions of the broader football world. This thread is a confirmation.

According to the afl official player ratings....As if that's the be all and end all.

Let's see...Last year AFL fantasy ratings...Ellis 99.7, Yarran 67.6 Supercoach 97.2 74.1 These figures are about as meaningful (and show a BIG gap), but you keep holding out your hope that the one ranking that has your (almost) 25year old better than our (just) 22 year old is the one that REALLY counts.

 

[Tig22]

The argument being made refers to yarran being the superior player to Ellis at any point in his career according to the afl official player rankings.

The ranking system is the most sophisticated statistical analyzer available to us, yet some are denying its capability to correctly value players, as in some cases it doesn't support their opinion.

The ranking system is not perfect, as with any ratings of anything, there will be anomalies, however it accurately supports Carlton people's opinion of yarran and I see no reason why we should alter this view. If we were to do this Chris Yarran would be the only player with his ratings at his age that is worth less than a first round pick

Many are of firm belief that through poor representation in the media, Carlton have a list of players that are chronically undervalued in the perceptions of the broader football world. This thread is a confirmation.

And there sits Tom Bell at 122, ahead of Motlop, Ziebell, Stephan Martin, Mumford, Goodes, Petrie, Blicavs, Pavlich, Rischitelli. Are these all anomalies, or is Yarran the anomaly that he has made it so high? Come on mate, give it a rest.
http://www.afl.com.au/stats/player-ratings/overall-standings#page/4

Edit: Not having a dig at Bell, because he is a decent and hard at it player, but I would rate each of these players mentioned as better players.

 

[telsor]

And there sits Tom Bell at 122, ahead of Motlop, Ziebell, Stephan Martin, Mumford, Goodes, Petrie, Blicavs, Pavlich, Rischitelli. Are these all anomalies, or is Yarran the anomaly that he has made it so high? Come on mate, give it a rest.
http://www.afl.com.au/stats/player-ratings/overall-standings#page/4

Edit: Not having a dig at Bell, because he is a decent and hard at it player, but I would rate each of these players mentioned as better players.

Gibbs 401 pts, S Johnson 396....would ANYONE consider that a fair swap?

But no, the AFL rankings are the only one that think Yarran is even half decent, so they must be right, right?

 

[My name geoff]

According to the afl official player ratings....As if that's the be all and end all.

Let's see...Last year AFL fantasy ratings...Ellis 99.7, Yarran 67.6 Supercoach 97.2 74.1 These figures are about as meaningful (and show a BIG gap), but you keep holding out your hope that the one ranking that has your (almost) 25year old better than our (just) 22 year old is the one that REALLY counts.

And there sits Tom Bell at 122, ahead of Motlop, Ziebell, Stephan Martin, Mumford, Goodes, Petrie, Blicavs, Pavlich, Rischitelli. Are these all anomalies, or is Yarran the anomaly that he has made it so high? Come on mate, give it a rest.
http://www.afl.com.au/stats/player-ratings/overall-standings#page/4

Supercoach is actually addressed in the explanation of the rating system, you should read it.

Tom Bell has been outstanding the past 2 seasons, his high rating supports this.

One day hopefully you will embrace these types of data analytics as this is where the game is heading

 

[telsor]

Many are of firm belief that through poor representation in the media, Carlton have a list of players that are chronically undervalued in the perceptions of the broader football world. This thread is a confirmation.

Wooden spooners have crap list....Well, there's a shock.

 

[telsor]

Supercoach is actually addressed in the explanation of the rating system, you should read it.

Tom Bell has been outstanding the past 2 seasons, his high rating supports this.

One day hopefully you will embrace these types of data analytic as this is where the game is heading

but only the ones that make your players look good, right?

 

[My name geoff]

but only the ones that make your players look good, right?

Make three teams using the rating system, use the highest rated player for each position in the first, second rated player for the second team and the third for the third.

Should ease your doubts

 

[Tig22]

Supercoach is actually addressed in the explanation of the rating system, you should read it.

Tom Bell has been outstanding the past 2 seasons, his high rating supports this.

One day hopefully you will embrace these types of data analytic as this is where the game is heading

I embrace it as a guide, but I also embrace my brain as a pretty good thing for independent assessment. Do you think that Bell is a better player than Motlop or Ziebell? What if i remove Carlton from the equation and asked if you think Bennell is better than Maric? Because Maric is quite a bit ahead of him in the player ratings. What about Shane Edwards, is he better than Dustin Martin? And would you trade more for him because the AFL ranking system puts Edwards ahead of Martin?

 

[telsor]

I embrace it as a guide, but I also embrace my brain as a pretty good thing for independent assessment. Do you think that Bell is a better player than Motlop or Ziebell? What if i remove Carlton from the equation and asked if you think Bennell is better than Maric? Because Maric is quite a bit ahead of him in the player ratings. What about Shane Edwards, is he better than Dustin Martin? And would you trade more for him because the AFL ranking system puts Edwards ahead of Martin?

Exactly...As a guide, it (and all other rankings) have SOME value.

To take a single system and slavishly follow it, ignoring all others and with no consideration of other relevant factors (like age...e.g. continually comparing a young, developing player like Ellis to a guy who should be in his prime like Yarran) is just silly though.

 

[My name geoff]

You are right, it is a guide. You need to factor in things like players age and position when comparing players. Maric has probably been a better player than Bennell this year, but would I take Maric ahead of him seeing as he is pushing on in age? Probably not.

There are other things to look for as well, such as what is the highest and lowest rating players have reached. This gives a better understanding of the players overall capability, not just current form.

Players of similar quality fluctuate past each other regularly so exact position is not critical.

Yarran however has never dipped below Ellis' highest ever rating. This is telling

 

[davis_756]

I embrace it as a guide, but I also embrace my brain as a pretty good thing for independent assessment. Do you think that Bell is a better player than Motlop or Ziebell? What if i remove Carlton from the equation and asked if you think Bennell is better than Maric? Because Maric is quite a bit ahead of him in the player ratings. What about Shane Edwards, is he better than Dustin Martin? And would you trade more for him because the AFL ranking system puts Edwards ahead of Martin?

So you rate hype over performance, fair enough but that makes you a muppet in my book

 

[Tig22]

So you rate hype over performance, fair enough but that makes you a muppet in my book

Please explain where I'm rating hype over performance? Ellis (2015) has better stats than Yarran (2014), is that hype or performance? The rankings are interesting, but that is about it.

This is laughable, remember we're talking about Yarran!! What is this thread if not a big Carlton love-in of rating hype over performance?

 

[telsor]

You are right, it is a guide. You need to factor in things like players age and position when comparing players.

Yarran however has never dipped below Ellis' highest ever rating. This is telling

So you're staying latched on to the one stat that says one positive thing about your player and considering that to be 'telling', which all ignoring those other stats and rankings that inconveniently say different things.

Enjoy that blinkered view.

 

[Tig22]

You are right, it is a guide. You need to factor in things like players age and position when comparing players. Maric has probably been a better player than Bennell this year, but would I take Maric ahead of him seeing as he is pushing on in age? Probably not.

There are other things to look for as well, such as what is the highest and lowest rating players have reached. This gives a better understanding of the players overall capability, not just current form.

Players of similar quality fluctuate past each other regularly so exact position is not critical.

Yarran however has never dipped below Ellis' highest ever rating. This is telling

Please justify your opinion of Yarran vs Ellis without reverting to the player ratings, or before you continue to use the ratings to argue for Yarran, justify why Bell is better than Motlop, Ziebell, etc.

 

[telsor]

So you rate hype over performance, fair enough but that makes you a muppet in my book

You're the one rating Yarran so highly....

Another Yarran V Ellis stat for you to ignore because it doesn't fit your narrative...Ellis has had more career disposals (1915 v 1722), despite playing 31 fewer games (88 v 119)

 

[BlueGibbs2011]

Stupid back and forth by both supporters.

Yarran is worth in the range of 18-25 because he is a best 22 player despite dumb people citing VFL. But he wants to leave so it gets pushed back to a range 20-30. 20 would be fine from Carlton's point of view; 30 much less attractive but great for Richmond (even better for them if 30+).

Richmond want to pay a second rounder and get player cheaper than value. I understand that.

With sensible Carlton fans wanting 20 and Richmond fans wanting to give a 2nd rounder because that's all they have in the range; the posts degenerate into bigging up/down[playing players ability. These latter posters are the dumbest off all. It hurts reading their posts.

With future trading on the table, Richmond should be able to meet a value around 20 for Yarran if they want to:
1) Be professional and fair
2) Not want to be smacked back in a future draft.

There are ways now for Richmond to get their player without 'getting one over on a club'. Not worth bending a club over that might come back at you in 1-2 years time when you are on a flag threshold. The dumbest of tiger supporters will shout this down...but they aren't in control of their list - thank god.

 

[My name geoff]

So you're staying latched on to the one stat that says one positive thing about your player and considering that to be 'telling', which all ignoring those other stats and rankings that inconveniently say different things.

Enjoy that blinkered view.

If you've been paying any attention, it's not 'one stat' it's a ranking systems that takes into account ALL stats.

 

[telsor]

Stupid back and forth by both supporters.

Yarran is worth in the range of 18-25 because he is a best 22 player despite dumb people citing VFL. But he wants to leave so it gets pushed back to a range 20-30. 20 would be fine from Carlton's point of view; 30 much less attractive but great for Richmond (even better for them if 30+).

Richmond want to pay a second rounder and get player cheaper than value. I understand that.

With sensible Carlton fans wanting 20 and Richmond fans wanting to give a 2nd rounder because that's all they have in the range; the posts degenerate into bigging up/down[playing players ability. These latter posters are the dumbest off all. It hurts reading their posts.

With future trading on the table, Richmond should be able to meet a value around 20 for Yarran if they want to:
1) Be professional and fair
2) Not want to be smacked back in a future draft.

There are ways now for Richmond to get their player without 'getting one over on a club'. Not worth bending a club over that might come back at you in 1-2 years time when you are on a flag threshold. The dumbest of tiger supporters will shout this down...but they aren't in control of their list - thank god.

Most Richmond fans are fine with that range...The idea or trading our 2nd and Astbury for Brisbane's 2nd, then on-trading it for Yarran is fine with us (although personally, I think Carlton would be better off getting Astbury).

It's the Carlton fans who are insisting he's worth a 1st rounder.

 

[Tig22]

Stupid back and forth by both supporters.

Yarran is worth in the range of 18-25 because he is a best 22 player despite dumb people citing VFL. But he wants to leave so it gets pushed back to a range 20-30. 20 would be fine from Carlton's point of view; 30 much less attractive but great for Richmond (even better for them if 30+).

Richmond want to pay a second rounder and get player cheaper than value. I understand that.

With sensible Carlton fans wanting 20 and Richmond fans wanting to give a 2nd rounder because that's all they have in the range; the posts degenerate into bigging up/down[playing players ability. These latter posters are the dumbest off all. It hurts reading their posts.

With future trading on the table, Richmond should be able to meet a value around 20 for Yarran if they want to:
1) Be professional and fair
2) Not want to be smacked back in a future draft.

There are ways now for Richmond to get their player without 'getting one over on a club'. Not worth bending a club over that might come back at you in 1-2 years time when you are on a flag threshold. The dumbest of tiger supporters will shout this down...but they aren't in control of their list - thank god.

If the depth of this draft is one issue with our 2015 second, then would a 2016 2nd round pick be better. What's your opinion on that hypothetical?

 

[telsor]

If you've been paying any attention, it's not 'one stat' it's a ranking systems that takes into account ALL stats.

Did you read the quote you responded to....the bit where I said 'stats and rankings'???

 

[Rich01]

If you've been paying any attention, it's not 'one stat' it's a ranking systems that takes into account ALL stats.

Looks like you have heavily invested into this thread over the last week or so. Power to you.
Despite what some Richmond supporters think, I actually agree with you in that Richmond cannot afford to pony up the draft picks worthy of a player rated so highly in afl stat rankings.
SOS needs to hold his ground and make Yarran see out his contract at the blues.

 

[My name geoff]

Did you read the quote you responded to....the bit where I said 'stats and rankings'???

I was referring directly to the 'clinging to on stat' assertion.

Any rankings other than the official afl rating is using obsolete analytics. Why would I do that

 

[bmaurizio]

Pick 15 to 18, one could live with and would clinch the deal anything less is nonsense.
Yarran has a choice either he settles down and has another go of it at CFC or he walks into the draft.
We'll not be compromised, obviously it's his call, CFC assest is protected by contracted and there's the stumbling point.
Let's see if other parties are interested and throw their hat in the ring, should warm up a little then.
There is no need for the CFC to be precipitus, its Yarran's call.

 

[telsor]

Looks like you have heavily invested into this thread over the last week or so. Power to you.
Despite what some Richmond supporters think, I actually agree with you in that Richmond cannot afford to pony up the draft picks worthy of a player rated so highly in afl stat rankings.
SOS needs to hold his ground and make Yarran see out his contract at the blues.

I wouldn't mind seeing that actually....Not much middle ground between it being a big win and a massive loss for Carlton.

Either way it's a win for those who don't follow the club...Either we get to see a good player play well or Carlton implode again.

 

[telsor]

I was referring directly to the 'clinging to on stat' assertion.

Any rankings other than the official afl rating is using obsolete analytics. Why would I do that

Apologies for that, but repeatedly typing 'clinging onto the one ranking system that says what you want to hear' gets dull.


So *ALL* ranking systems are obsolete/useless except for the one that just happens to say what you want? How curious and convenient that must be for you.