Christians are easily startled, but they'll soon be back. And in greater numbers 36:11

[Gethelred]

Welcome to the Ask an Atheist thread II.

Previous part:

Win Prizes - Ask an Atheist - Shoe's on the other foot now!

Alright, we're going to have a change of tack. As I'm sure you can see, the thread title has been changed to Ask an Atheist. People who have a question to ask of the atheists who populate this thread - more than the christians do - should feel free to ask questions of them. If you've still got...

www.bigfooty.com

Standard board rules apply.

 

[ManInTheArena]

Now do it in elocution within the English language if you can?
Utter rubbish and jibberish as you’ve been known to purport!
You don’t own a $300 million dollar company, nor an expensive home, nor do you have access to “exotic” automobiles.
You are a Joseph Smith character, a fraud, a sheister, a criminal liar.
If you were half of what you claim, you could evidence it, thus far, I’m making you dance like a trained monkey, dance monkey dance!

Righto, macho man

 

[Chief]

Not a reply, where does it leave you, and all the non-believers?
Because if he does not exist, as you maintain, i lose nothing in this life.
That’s what really gets you, but it doesn’t have to be like that

I don't think anybody is trying to stop you believing what you want to.

 

[carltonchelsea]

Not a reply, where does it leave you, and all the non-believers?
Because if he does not exist, as you maintain, i lose nothing in this life.
That’s what really gets you, but it doesn’t have to be like that

Cool, I have your limited attention for this brief moment in time.
It was a reply.
It leaves me where I’ve always been.
The other non believers are my brethren.
He does not exist.
You lose because you’ve denied yourself the opportunity to live your life in harmony with the natural order we can record.
Nothing gets me, Dubs, I’ve studied all of the supernatural claims made by all religions and supernatural phenomena, none of which I find compelling in any way.
Your particular claims, I know are false, abject failures in reason and logic.
I love the sermon on the mount, those words and meaning have resonated with me since I was 14, I’m now 55.
I don’t worship Aristotle, Plato, Socrates, Democritus… although I find their teachings enlightening and precious as an author of goodness myself, or hope to be.
I want our species to thrive, I want my species to inhabit the galaxy and beyond.
From star dust we are made, and to the stars we explore.
Yeshua and Yahweh are no friends of mine, imaginary deities from the dawn of our ignorance are not my ultimate goal.
They are yours, and thus, you are my mortal enemy.
It’s sad but true.
**** Palestine and **** your temples, just don’t take the rest of us down with your stupid and childish ideology!
Have I made myself clear?
Thank you!

 

[Total Power]

Jesus uses the title “I AM,” the name God uses for Himself when answering Moses in Exodus 3:14. The reaction of the Pharisees confirms this is precisely what Jesus was claiming because they tried to stone Him for blasphemy.
John tells us directly that Jesus was making Himself equal with God. Since there was only one God, this was claiming to be God. In John 5, Jesus heals a man on the Sabbath and the Jewish leaders question Jesus about this violation of the law. Jesus claims authority over the Sabbath. Then John tells us in 5:18, “This is why the Jews were seeking all the more to kill Him, because not only was He breaking the Sabbath, but He was even calling God His own Father, making Himself equal with God.” They wanted to carry out the death penalty for blasphemy.
In Mark 2, Jesus heals the paralytic man and forgives his sins. The scribes who were there called this blasphemy because only God has authority to forgive sin (see Isaiah 43:25). This was a claim to be God. Luke records this claim also in Luke 5:20.
In John 10, Jesus again claims to be one with the Father. The Jews question Him, and His answers again elicit an attempt to stone Him. Jesus asks them for which of His good works they want to kill Him. They answer, “It is not for a good work that we are going to stone you but for blasphemy, because you, being a man, make yourself God.” And they attempted to arrest Him, but Jesus escaped.
In Matthew 14:33 and 28:9, Jesus received worship, the kind of worship Jews only gave God.
Finally, Jesus’ claim to be God was the reason the Jews arrested Him and convinced Pilate to crucify Him. In John 19, Pilate tells the Jewish leaders that he finds no guilt worthy of the capital sentence. They answer Pilate, “We have a law, and according to that law He ought to die because He has made Himself the Son of God.” Jesus’ violation of blasphemy is recorded in Luke 22:70–71 when He appeared before the Council after His arrest. They had the evidence they needed from Jesus’ own lips. Mark gives more detail of this in 14:62–64. When Jesus answered them, the high priest tore his clothes and declared this was blasphemy.
Jesus said very clearly that He was God.

Another failed copy paste attempt from another tryhard website. Fail

Again you do not read what's being said to you. Obviously his followers did believe he was God, (that was common back in those days) but he never himself claimed to be God. Son of God, is not God. Jesus says in Matthew, his father is GREATER THAN I. He also says in Luke, do not worship me, cause you only worship God. He prays to God, he says he doesn't know everything, he says his father 'asked him to do this'......does it sound like the allmighty YWH to you?

Jesus did indeed say something radical, like Son of God, which was blasphemy. However it doesn't imply he called himself God. (He didn't except for 2 occasions in John).

No point quoting the OT again champ, reverse engineering verses wont help. We have gone through this, Isiah verses are NOT prophecy of Jesus (despite tryhard christian claims). Me and Rossy went 10 pages long on this and in the end he conceded the argument.

 

[Total Power]

The First Law of Thermodynamics, also known as the “Law of Conservation of Energy”, is a principle in physics which asserts that energy cannot be created or destroyed. The Bible creation account that God created everything at the beginning of time is in harmony with this scientific principle.

Another copy pasted reply: you're on fire (then you accuse Roy of doing the same). Blind copy pasting without understand BB will result in you making a fool out of youself.

Stop talking about science. You do not understand the law of TD, nor you understand Big bang. Before big bang there was singularity, means all matter and energy was concentrated in one place. There's no creation, nor the Catholic priest who invented the theory implied any.

Stop making shit up.

 

[Total Power]

And a more recent flag. You're on a roll.
Sorry to say, I have Jesus. Not sorry for me btw.
That is all to be needed.

Some people are satisfied with pure fantasies, so be it..you have been well defeated in your argument.

 

[carltonchelsea]

Righto, macho man

So no photos of your exquisite “exotic” automotive collection?
No photos of your multi million dollar house?
No evidence of your $300 million dollar idea business?
No evidence of the extraordinary claims you’ve made at all?
Well, I’m shocked truth be known, I thought you’d be capable given the audacity and courageous attitude you attested to!
I suddenly feel like James Hird, mystified by my own ignorance.
Man in the arena isn’t more than a poor cover band of a group no one ever cared to listen to.
Shocked!

 

[Total Power]

Not a reply, where does it leave you, and all the non-believers?
Because if he does not exist, as you maintain, i lose nothing in this life.
That’s what really gets you, but it doesn’t have to be like that

you really are a broken record. Where does it leave you? same place as the rest of us actually. Allah might be real, where does it leave you then? Jesus is not God, in the Bible it's pretty clear. You lose the only real thing you ever had...this life...living in fear and slavery.

All in all you lose everything, atleast we are living freely without fear of a tyrannical entity that sanctions rape and murder.

 

[Total Power]

So you say. With amazing historical and archaeological research to back you up.
That you believe there is zero possibility that Jesus is God, and that God is real is fine. Millions agree with you.
Many like me, despite the doubts and the science and the archaeology, believe it to be true. Jesus is God and the only way to God.

No one cares what you believe in, but stop making unsubstantiated claims.

Oh man. So how long should we give christianity to completely fail at what its supposed to do. Is 2000 years not enough time? Need another 2000 to completely reverse the progress we’ve made. Honestly, religion causes way more problems than it ever solved.

Christianity is constsntly fracturing and breaking into more denominations. Wars have been fought because some Christians thought other Christians were baptized with the wrong flavor of holy water. Then colonialism and imperialism.
Consider Matthew:

Do not assume that I have come to bring peace to the earth; I have not come to bring peace, but a sword. For I have come to turn a man against his father, a daughter against her mother, a daughter-in-law against her mother-in-law. A man’s enemies will be the members of his own household.

Or maybe Luke:

Do you think that I have come to bring peace to the earth? No, I tell you, but division.

Or what about Revelation:

Then another horse went forth. It was bright red, and its rider was granted permission to take away peace from the earth and to make men slay one another. And he was given a great sword.

There are more, but I'm travelling for business to Northern Europe now (barely any brainwashed bigots here), and i am tired.

 

[Total Power]

So you keep saying. And hoping.

Jesus never claimed to be God. Evangelicals hate Bart Ehrman, cause Ehrman was a Christian turned agnostic after his scholarly work on NT. None of the Christian scholars dare debate Ehrman and yet take potshots at him...for a reason.

Despite your copypaste you failed to prove Jesus claimed he was God. He clearly didn't. Son of God doesn't imply God. I gave the reason above.

 

[Vdubs]

you really are a broken record. Where does it leave you? same place as the rest of us actually. Allah might be real, where does it leave you then? Jesus is not God, in the Bible it's pretty clear. You lose the only real thing you ever had...this life...living in fear and slavery.

All in all you lose everything, atleast we are living freely without fear of a tyrannical entity that sanctions rape and murder.

Wrong

 

[Roylion]

Because if he does not exist, as you maintain, i lose nothing in this life.

That’s a nonsense argument. Even if God is “real” there’s no evidence that what Christians say about “God” is factual. Why should Christians’ claim to truth about the nature and desires of “God” be believed as accurate?

Equally the Greek or Norse gods might be real as well. I may well miss out on going to Valhalla.

 

[Total Power]

Wrong

Really? what makes you say Allah is not the true God? or 1.2 billion hindus believing Shiva is God. Shiva been around for a lot longer than Jesus, you know this right?

So yes, you lose everything too....including this life. Atleast we are living freely.

 

[Vdubs]

Really? what makes you say Allah is not the true God? or 1.2 billion hindus believing Shiva is God. Shiva been around for a lot longer than Jesus, you know this right?

So yes, you lose everything too....including this life. Atleast we are living freely.

Rubbish- you are living no more freely than any other mortal man not incarcerated

 

[Roylion]

Many like me, despite the doubts and the science and the archaeology, believe it to be true.

I see no reason to believe what you believe to be true and you haven’t offered any evidence to suggest it might be.

 

[Total Power]

Rubbish- you are living no more freely than any other mortal man not incarcerated

Living a lot more freely than you. You are living in mental slavery, praying for salvation for a non existent made up doctrine that Augustine told you. My life is my salvation....your life starts after death..the tragedy.

Reality is a lot more pleasant than sweet lies.

 

[Vdubs]

It does

I see no reason to believe what you believe to be true and you haven’t offered any evidence to suggest it might be.

So what. I’m not here to prove anything to you or to convince you of anything. Once a person finds God through Jesus, nothing else matters, except that we have a desire for others to be saved from themselves and their sin. But that only works when people are convicted of sin in their lives. I don’t know the fate of those who have no need for salvation. Maybe you’re ok. Maybe blinded by your own convictions. What we know is Jesus came to save us from ourselves. That is all.

 

[Vdubs]

Living a lot more freely than you. You are living in mental slavery, praying for salvation for a non existent made up doctrine that Augustine told you. My life is my salvation....your life starts after death..the tragedy.

Reality is a lot more pleasant than sweet lies.

You have no idea how rich and fulfilling the lives of believers can be, even if we are on the outer in this world.

 

[Total Power]

You have no idea how rich and fulfilling the lives of believers can be, even if we are on the outer in this world.

I completely agree, believing in a big brother has it's merits, however you have surrendered your life to a non existent deity and fear of judgement and hell.

This is not a fulfilling life in anyones book although you can pretend to be.

What if Allah is real?

 

[Total Power]

What we know is Jesus came to save us from ourselves. That is all.

Spare me...he came to save us from himself. The curse remember. None of this will needed if he didn't curse us in the first place resulting in blood sacrifice of his own self to save us from himself.

You do not understand how stupid this sounds.

 

[Vdubs]

I completely agree, believing in a big brother has it's merits, however you have surrendered your life to a non existent deity and fear of judgement and hell.

This is not a fulfilling life in anyones book although you can pretend to be.

What if Allah is real?

How do you react if you or a loved one is faced with a calamity, or a terminal illness at a relatively young age, when you know that death is imminent? “You” being used generically here.
I don’t think anyone has the answers but in my profession, sadly I get to see this, and it’s remarkable how many people come to God at this stage of their lives. Believers or not previously. So death is a fear for many of us, Christians included, but not necessarily the concept of hell.

 

[Total Power]

How do you react if you or a loved one is faced with a calamity, or a terminal illness at a relatively young age, when you know that death is imminent?

That's the reality, you deal with it. I have lost a lot , all my life. I have dealt with it without false hopes. Yes it feels great to have a big brother out there but nature and life is brutal. All our lives we lose people and in the end we say 'oh life is great'. Such is life, look into nature and see examples of brutality there.

Nature doesn't give two hoots about your religion, skin color or nationality.

I don’t think anyone has the answers but in my profession, sadly I get to see this, and it’s remarkable how many people come to God at this stage of their lives. Believers or not previously. So death is a fear for many of us, Christians included, but not necessarily the concept of hell.

For me, I find comfort in knowing that eventually everyone dies, and so the most important thing are the good memories we make with our loved ones...... and feeling grateful for those memories......Celebrate their life. It requires a change of perspective on life, and teaching others that perspective when they arent in mourning. While someone is mourning, we can provide comfort through taking care of their physical needs, like food and cleaning their home, and just being there for them.

I know a bloke, who lost his teenage son and his wife to different types of cancer within a span of like 5 friggen years. Hes turned religious. Good on him, ah well, whatever helps you not kill yourself or just give up on life completely after an experience like that.

 

[Total Power]

How do you react if you or a loved one is faced with a calamity, or a terminal illness at a relatively young age, when you know that death is imminent? “You” being used generically here.
I don’t think anyone has the answers but in my profession, sadly I get to see this, and it’s remarkable how many people come to God at this stage of their lives. Believers or not previously. So death is a fear for many of us, Christians included, but not necessarily the concept of hell.

Here's another :



This is exactly my position too.

In the end i lose nothing either..since i have had a great life and i lived my life true to my conscience (not cherry picking on what to believe and what not to believe from a book written by humans) without fear or sabotage.

You basically answered your own question. God, provides comfort, of the unknown..in this vast universe, sense of justice, sense of belonging...that we are loved etc. I never denied this. This is why most people believe in one, including you.

"The fact that a believer is happier than a skeptic is no more to the point than the fact that a drunken man is happier than a sober one."

-George Bernard Shaw.

 

[Total Power]

Once a person finds God through Jesus, nothing else matters, except that we have a desire for others to be saved from themselves and their sin. But that only works when people are convicted of sin in their lives. I don’t know the fate of those who have no need for salvation. Maybe you’re ok. Maybe blinded by your own convictions. What we know is Jesus came to save us from ourselves. That is all.

Why the **** is picking the wrong belief or lack thereof the ultimate crime in God’s eyes? Oh yeah: because it was invented by people who want you to pick their religion and fear works to keep their congregation tithing. Read about early Christianity why don't you?

I keep saying it to you and it has fallen in deaf ears, religion and belief depends on your place of birth. If you were born in Indonesia you wouldn't be talking about Christ now. You are blinded by your own bigotry and bias' that you overlook this simple fact. You have no control over where you are born and how you are brought up. ZERO CONTROL.

Its absolutely astounding to me that anyone believes a creator of the universe could actually care about something so silly, ahead of the things that actually matter, morally and spiritually speaking. So I don't lose any sleep over going to hell over what I believe, because that's just not a plausible theology.

A perfect being that is also so petty that he punishes people for not believing a story, in a book he inspired to write with no conclusive evidence, errors, mistakes, poor science, lack of eyewitness' etc etc. they once heard. Ridiculous.

Organised religion is an absolute joke, your responses are the proof and the reason why your religion is dying.

 

[Leeda]

Why the **** is picking the wrong belief or lack thereof the ultimate crime in God’s eyes? Oh yeah: because it was invented by people who want you to pick their religion and fear works to keep their congregation tithing. Read about early Christianity why don't you?

I keep saying it to you and it has fallen in deaf ears, religion and belief depends on your place of birth. If you were born in Indonesia you wouldn't be talking about Christ now. You are blinded by your own bigotry and bias' that you overlook this simple fact. You have no control over where you are born and how you are brought up. ZERO CONTROL.

Its absolutely astounding to me that anyone believes a creator of the universe could actually care about something so silly, ahead of the things that actually matter, morally and spiritually speaking. So I don't lose any sleep over going to hell over what I believe, because that's just not a plausible theology.

A perfect being that is also so petty that he punishes people for not believing a story, in a book he inspired to write with no conclusive evidence, errors, mistakes, poor science, lack of eyewitness' etc etc. they once heard. Ridiculous.

Organised religion is an absolute joke, your responses are the proof and the reason why your religion is dying.

Cackled myself silly....