It's going to be tough for us to fit Cloke, Goddard, Boak and hopefully Tippett and Caddy under our cap.
We'll find a way though...
We'll find a way though...
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Cloke to Carlton - welcome mat is out.
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And so they should be. All parties agreed to those terms and they signed accordingly.
I'd be ****ing mortified if Collingwood went to it's players and asked them to take a pay cut to bring an outsider in that's being paid way over odds, and over them, just to get him on board.
It's either sack Ratten and pay out his contract, or get Cloke.
This is still a rumor and nothing else, but even if Cloke did go to Cartlon, he isn't going to save them.
Still have problems all over the field, no depth, and a shit coach.
Cloke only has his regular good games cos Collingwood is actually a good team. Would struggle in Carlton's list - no one to make him look good.
This is still a rumor and nothing else, but even if Cloke did go to Cartlon, he isn't going to save them.
Still have problems all over the field, no depth, and a shit coach.
Cloke only has his regular good games cos Collingwood is actually a good team. Would struggle in Carlton's list - no one to make him look good.
Dustin Credible
Club Legend
Cloke would massively improve Carlton.
Accepted wisdom is that Carlton (minus injuries) are a good key forward away from a serious premiership challenge. Cloke at CHF, allowing Waite to play at CHB and they already look a lot stronger. Could be worth a million for them.
Wouldn't want at Richmond at this price, but could see how it's attractive for other clubs.
Accepted wisdom is that Carlton (minus injuries) are a good key forward away from a serious premiership challenge. Cloke at CHF, allowing Waite to play at CHB and they already look a lot stronger. Could be worth a million for them.
Wouldn't want at Richmond at this price, but could see how it's attractive for other clubs.
It will not end up like the NRL. Cloke can't sign with Carlton mid season. However, he is free to negotiate with them and any other party. Just as he is free to negotiate with Collingwood. You can't limit it so a player can only negotiate with one club and has to completely sever ties with their current club before they can negotiate with others. It is a stupid idea and would mean deals are done by stealth. How would it be any less holding his club to ransom if he said to them, "I think I'm worth $1m for 5 years because my agent told me so"? Even though it is really because that is what the Dockers told his agent they would be willing to part with, thereby still holding the club to the same demands. And what more leverage would Collingwood have? They either pay him or they don't. There are no other options. They can't threaten not to trade him, threaten to trade him, have him sit out a year, etc.
Cloke has earned the right to have it all going his way. He's been locked to Collingwood for 8 years. He watched his brothers get dropped and traded. He watched other players get traded across the country and back. Why can't he try and earn a bit more cash now with the little playing time he has left?? It is hardly like he'll be earning big bucks once footy is over. He isn't exactly a genius. He has earned the right to control his own destiny for once.
This is the new AFL with free agency. Deal with it! The whole point is that some clubs, such as Collingwood, will lose players when they are in premiership windows, it will make them weaker and shite clubs stronger. It levels out teams faster than the draft can. With ultimately all clubs trending to the mean through the salary cap (as long as they don't do stupid stuff like give an out of form forward a 5 year 5.5m contract - I'm looking at you Fremantle). It sucks if you lose one of your players, but the trick to long term success is to continue to build through the draft, pay the free agency players you need to fair market rates and stuff off those who want too much.
I did not know that. Did they change that this year? Makes sense IMO as otherwise it just sets up big pay days for them at the end of their career.
Brasher
Premium Platinum
We ain't going to agree on this but nonetheless:
So he does everything but put his signature on the contract through the negotiation. They are negotiating to sign his services right? Why would anyone even bother to negotiate with him if the intent was not to sign him? Saving the official signature on paper for the appropriate window is just symantecs. In any case, if he agreed to a deal with Carlton, he'd then stop negotiating with the Pies, the media circus starts, Cloke probably gets dropped to the VFL and the Pies not only lose the player but don't even get the full value out of him whilst he is still under contract.
Thinking what you are worth and having a contract in hand (albeit to be signed) are two entirely different things. We'd all be loaded if we all got paid what we thought we were worth.
Very valid and the biggest risk associated with the way I would like to see FA. In the NFL they have specific anti-tampering rules to prevent this. I know, no more Americanism in AFL, but it is an important instrument in keeping free agency a level playing field.
Do we need to be reminded how he got to Collingwood? He's been locked in to the Pies since because of the lack of flexibility of allowing free player movements.
Never said that Cloke does not reserve the right to earn as much money as he can. Just honor his existing contract first. If he really is worth it, the mega contract offer will still be there at season's end.
I've been a huge fan of the introduction of FA in the AFL. In fact, I don't think it goes far enough yet as the indenturing of players to clubs has always annoyed me. I do not ultimately care whether Cloke stays a Pie or not, however, I'm not a fan of a team haivng their playing list underminded whislt they are trying to win a premiership.
So he does everything but put his signature on the contract through the negotiation. They are negotiating to sign his services right? Why would anyone even bother to negotiate with him if the intent was not to sign him? Saving the official signature on paper for the appropriate window is just symantecs. In any case, if he agreed to a deal with Carlton, he'd then stop negotiating with the Pies, the media circus starts, Cloke probably gets dropped to the VFL and the Pies not only lose the player but don't even get the full value out of him whilst he is still under contract.
Thinking what you are worth and having a contract in hand (albeit to be signed) are two entirely different things. We'd all be loaded if we all got paid what we thought we were worth.
Very valid and the biggest risk associated with the way I would like to see FA. In the NFL they have specific anti-tampering rules to prevent this. I know, no more Americanism in AFL, but it is an important instrument in keeping free agency a level playing field.
Do we need to be reminded how he got to Collingwood? He's been locked in to the Pies since because of the lack of flexibility of allowing free player movements.
Never said that Cloke does not reserve the right to earn as much money as he can. Just honor his existing contract first. If he really is worth it, the mega contract offer will still be there at season's end.
I've been a huge fan of the introduction of FA in the AFL. In fact, I don't think it goes far enough yet as the indenturing of players to clubs has always annoyed me. I do not ultimately care whether Cloke stays a Pie or not, however, I'm not a fan of a team haivng their playing list underminded whislt they are trying to win a premiership.
I am sick of hearing about this cloke saga. Him and his old man can both f#*k off if they think they can hold Coll to ransom. A raft of stars have already signed at pie land for a shit load less than they'd get elsewhere . Cloke can do the same or piss off. Simple . Very important to coll's structure yes, but he's hardly a buddy franklin or jack riewoldt on pure talent
If the drums are beating correctly , the pies already have the feelers out for a younger kpf from another club, so they are obviously planning the distinct possibility that cloke is on the move
If the drums are beating correctly , the pies already have the feelers out for a younger kpf from another club, so they are obviously planning the distinct possibility that cloke is on the move
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Just out of interest, who could you buy? Which players are likely to move West whilst Pav, Sandi and McPharlin are still in their prime?
Scully?
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I'd take him in a heart beat because if nothing it else it would piss opposition supporters and have them questioning our salary cap room and also Collingwood supporters would hate us even more, if possible!!!!!
Do you really believe that? Key forward is the missing link at Carlton. Currently they are playing Hampson (gone and a ruck anyway) and Walker/Duigan/some other stop gap. There is not a team in the comp Cloke would improve more than Carlton. And there would be nothing wrong with any of Murphy/Gibbs/Simpson/Yarran drilling down his throat.
Is Cloke an environmentalist?
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Isn't Karmicheal Hunt getting $1.8 a year ?
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It's going to be tough for us to fit Cloke, Goddard, Boak and hopefully Tippett and Caddy under our cap.
We'll find a way though...
Visy is a big company, I'm sure it needs plenty of ambassodors!!
Honestly though, he could be the difference between Carlton winning a flag in Judd's tenure at the club and not. If nothing else, he is the big target they need, always creates a contest, rarely gets beaten 1 on 1 which brings Betts/Garlett/Walker into the contest more, and unlike Waite, is extremely durable. Would be a very good pick-up.
A lot of money though that we are talking about. Is chasing a flag worth potentially blowing your list management potential (i.e taking up plenty of available cash when you have so many guys who could warrant more later) worth it? Or do you try and find another forward, a lot cheaper from somewhere (Young Mitch Bown from Geelong, Mitch Brown from West Coast etc etc ) and hope that he can add that 5% to take you that step further??
If he goes to the blues the Eddie frothing value would be well worth it...then an extra bonus would be to see him play every game and have an absolute shocker of a year...
Cory
Brownlow Medallist
It's been revealed by Mike Sheahan that the Carlton offer was a rumour started by David Cloke and Ralph Carr.
To be honest i really don't know who i'd buy as the one i really rate is roughead. I think he would add a lot to our club and set up and im sure we could pay him a lot more than he gets at hawthorn, unfortunately he isn't available. We would also get him for far less than cloke or goddard or any other high priced free agents. This would also allow us to pay our young guys coming through what they are worth.
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Agree he'd be great, although you're right he's unavailable.
I just can't see anyone you could spend your money on this off-season.
Kudos if you land a good key forward who isn't Cloke.
Collingwood must be furious that for the second year running their season is being driven off course by an off-field distraction. The Malthouse saga last year and now this. Geelong of course had the same with Ablett in 2010 and it definitely does not help.
Though it is not really their fault this time, victim of their own success.
Though it is not really their fault this time, victim of their own success.
Fair points. I guess it comes down to I would rather FA with all discussions relatively open, even if they are throughout the year. However you would prefer there to be rules against discussions while they're contracted and at least try and suppress innuendo from managers with hardcore denials required. I think the anti-tampering laws in the NFL are ineffective at best though, so it doesn't make that much of a difference. Only difference is in the NFL they normally don't make such a big deal of free agents till after the year end.
The NBA with LBJ was a bit different though. Would be funny to see Cloke do that on TFS.
If they were to go your way, you would need:
- laws against draft tampering with agents banned and clubs fined or stripped of picks
- a period in which you could discuss with other clubs and your own (maybe between season end and draft day)
You can't have it so a players choice is accept this deal or they're on your own, there needs to be a period of open negotiations with the potential suitors.
Distinctly recall an interview at the time of the last contract T Cloke signed - under the management of his old man - was based around him coming out of contract when free-agency rules came in, to take advantage of this very situation.
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