Club Focus Collingwood 2021 - Kreuger, Lipinski, Daicos, Murley, Harrison

[Pure_Ownage]

They now have 2940 points so even a pick 1 bid would still leave them 540 points left over (equals pick 34 roughly) plus 78 and 79 which should come into the 60s after bid matches where they can draft a couple of late prospects. They would need 7 list spots for those picks though or 5 if they trade 1 each for kreuger and lipinski.

 

[RobJD]

Neither Kreuger or Lipinski are worth pick 22, Ned Guy isn't there anymore so I doubt they give that up for either of them.

Given that it would involve giving away basically your whole 2022 draft, now they can probably say 46 for Lipinski and 58 for Kreuger and that's it because there is nothing else to get.

Agree, can't understand the sense in the pick trade, maybe it will be clearer with subsequent trades, can't see it being for the Lipinksi and Kruger deals - Lipinski averages less than 14 possessions a game and Kreuger less than 8 possessions a game - neither player has shown anything at AFL level. I can only guess that the Pies will be targeting another trade with Pick 22 - maybe a young swan!

 

[TradeDraft]

Well done GC, they didnt need the picks this year and the one's they get next year will be better than what they have given up with Pies headed for the bottom 2.

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Then we have Pick 1 or 2 in the 2022 Draft Then instead of going down because of a Defcit

 

[RobJD]

Then we have Pick 1 or 2 in the 2022 Draft Then instead of going down because of a Deficit

With Pick 1 or Pick 2 next year we could have carried in a deficit of upto 500 points and it wouldn't have changed the picks

 

[Keystone agony]

With Pick 1 or Pick 2 next year we could have carried in a deficit of upto 500 points and it wouldn't have changed the picks

If you had a 500 pt deficit than your pick 1 next year would've gone to pick 2

Pick 2 would've gone to pick 4

 

[RobJD]

If you had a 500 pt deficit than your pick 1 next year would've gone to pick 2

Pick 2 would've gone to pick 4

Geez, ok - upto 482 point deficit!

 

[McOrist]

Well done GC, they didnt need the picks this year and the one's they get next year will be better than what they have given up with Pies headed for the bottom 2.

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Yep -us and the Hawks will be bottom two next year.

 

[Keystone agony]

You'd think as simple as 46 for Lipinski and 58 for Kreuger

Still have enough points for Daicos even being bid at 1

 

[Prochard123]

You'd think as simple as 46 for Lipinski and 58 for Kreuger

Still have enough points for Daicos even being bid at 1

That's a steep price for Lipinski when we can just PSD him.

 

[Kings of Lygon]

Agree, can't understand the sense in the pick trade, maybe it will be clearer with subsequent trades, can't see it being for the Lipinksi and Kruger deals - Lipinski averages less than 14 possessions a game and Kreuger less than 8 possessions a game - neither player has shown anything at AFL level. I can only guess that the Pies will be targeting another trade with Pick 22 - maybe a young swan!

Yeah, we will all have to wait and see how it pans out. Looks a great deal for GC and seems to solve some short term issues for the Pies.

I think Collingwood are just continuing to kick their problems down the road a bit personally, which ironically is how they got themselves into this mess in the first place. The club and some of its fans try and spin how many players they got last year and that's great to a point, but they gave up an absolute shitload to do it and it remains to be seen if any of those kids turn out any good, especially as they weren't exactly taken at great spots in the draft. The net result of that fire sale I imagine isn't that great at all, has anyone posted what it ended up being after the future's were resolved?

Eventually they will need to take a bit more of their medicine IMO and that may be the 2022 draft. All talk of trading back into that draft so 'everything is ok, nothing to see here' doesn't really stack up all that well, because they'll need to give up even more assets to get back in, if that's what they want to do.

 

[Go Woods]

Shut the gate! We have the points now to all the knockers out their and it only took day 1 of the trade period to achieve!

 

[Keystone agony]

That's a steep price for Lipinski when we can just PSD him.

Then you have the risk of North if they get a deal done for CCJ

Not great business

Pick 46 isn't steep 12 months ago

You maybe ask for something very minor back in return but that is the general basis of the trade

 

[Prochard123]

Then you have the risk of North if they get a deal done for CCJ

Not great business

Pick 46 isn't steep 12 months ago

You maybe ask for something very minor back in return but that is the general basis of the trade

Why would North even need Lipinski when they have Cunnington, Simpkin, Thomas, Anderson, LDU, Powell, Phillips? They have invested a billion 1st round picks into the midfield, why would they need a B/C grade mid who would be 8th in line and doesn't even want to be there?

It's such a improbable and trivial risk that even if it does occur, it's not like it will be a big loss, woohoo big deal we lose some random fringe mid wow.

 

[AusMC]

Well done GC, they didnt need the picks this year and the one's they get next year will be better than what they have given up with Pies headed for the bottom 2.

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GCS send:
22 - 845points
46 - 331pts
58 - 170pts
79 - N/A
Future 4th - 110? (Assuming 10th)
TOTAL - 1450ish

Pies send:
Future 2nd - Assuming 14th 815pts / Assuming 17th 912pts
Future 3rd - 412/465
Future 4th - 158/194

TOTAL - 1385/1571

Seems to be pretty even to me. I know there will likely be adjustments to both pools with F/S bids and academy picks etc, but on the surface it seems fine.

 

[Keystone agony]

Why would North even need Lipinski when they have Cunnington, Simpkin, Thomas, Anderson, LDU, Powell, Phillips? They have invested a billion 1st round picks into the midfield, why would they need a B/C grade mid who would be 8th in line and doesn't even want to be there?

It's such a improbable and trivial risk that even if it does occur, it's not like it will be a big loss, woohoo big deal we lose some random fringe mid wow.

Simply he's probably the best player available at that time and is free outside of some minor change to them

Cunnington health issues and old, Thomas very capable elsewhere, they might be happy to be more like a Bulldogs, who knows.

Depends how much you guys like him, really is 48 really that much anyway?

I'm just playing devils advocate and giving reasons why it might not be such a good idea

 

[RobJD]

GCS send:
22 - 845points
46 - 331pts
58 - 170pts
79 - N/A
Future 4th - 110? (Assuming 10th)
TOTAL - 1450ish

Pies send:
Future 2nd - Assuming 14th 815pts / Assuming 17th 912pts
Future 3rd - 412/465
Future 4th - 158/194

TOTAL - 1385/1571

Seems to be pretty even to me. I know there will likely be adjustments to both pools with F/S bids and academy picks etc, but on the surface it seems fine.

Reckon its loaded in the favour of the GCS - they've off-loaded something they didn't need for something that they do need and at full market value - I just hope the Pies aren't over-estimating how good they will be next year - if they reckon they will bounce back into top 8 contention then it's a great deal for the Pies.

 

[RobJD]

Simply he's probably the best player available at that time and is free outside of some minor change to them

Cunnington health issues and old, Thomas very capable elsewhere, they might be happy to be more like a Bulldogs, who knows.

Depends how much you guys like him, really is 48 really that much anyway?

I'm just playing devils advocate and giving reasons why it might not be such a good idea

Good thing for the Pies is that they've got lots of flexibility now - they can really take a lead with some deals.

 

[Bay Pie]

I honestly don't know whyy we did this trade now instead of after the Daicos bid.

This way not only do we not get to keep 22, we also have more assets for WBD/Geelong to take for Kreuger/Lipinski, so we can't pretend to be poor anymore and threaten PSD.

Because GC won’t have the list spots to carry all those picks to the draft.

When a bid comes at 3 for Nick Daicos, I expect us to trade pick 22 for a 2022 2nd round pick.
We’ll only take 3/4 kids in this draft (including Y.Dib) and redraft some of our own players and elevate John Noble.

We have 9 vacant list spots, reducing to 7 if we bring in Lipinski file and Kreuger. 7 picks is plenty.

 

[Rob R]

Yep -us and the Hawks will be bottom two next year.

Sadly, I think it is Pies plus Hawks or Crows.

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[Gone Critical]

Yeah, we will all have to wait and see how it pans out. Looks a great deal for GC and seems to solve some short term issues for the Pies.

I think Collingwood are just continuing to kick their problems down the road a bit personally, which ironically is how they got themselves into this mess in the first place. The club and some of its fans try and spin how many players they got last year and that's great to a point, but they gave up an absolute shitload to do it and it remains to be seen if any of those kids turn out any good, especially as they weren't exactly taken at great spots in the draft. The net result of that fire sale I imagine isn't that great at all, has anyone posted what it ended up being after the future's were resolved?

Eventually they will need to take a bit more of their medicine IMO and that may be the 2022 draft. All talk of trading back into that draft so 'everything is ok, nothing to see here' doesn't really stack up all that well, because they'll need to give up even more assets to get back in, if that's what they want to do.

Unfortunately I agree. I think the kids of 2020 are doing well and look good for where they have come in the draft but overall Pies have one of the weakest group of youngsters in the comp. Nick D helps a lot but I was hoping we could do all this and keep 2022 1st and 2nd. We lack high end talent amongst our young players and need Nick D and 2022 1st (pick 1-4 seems very likely) to be great results to really be the basis of what I think will be a pretty long rebuild.

 

[Kings of Lygon]

Unfortunately I agree. I think the kids of 2020 are doing well and look good for where they have come in the draft but overall Pies have one of the weakest group of youngsters in the comp. Nick D helps a lot but I was hoping we could do all this and keep 2022 1st and 2nd. We lack high end talent amongst our young players and need Nick D and 2022 1st (pick 1-4 seems very likely) to be great results to really be the basis of what I think will be a pretty long rebuild.

I don't know if I'm looking too far into it, but do you think it's possible that some Collingwood decisions are being made in a way to almost cover up the mess of the fire sale under Guy? They tried to spin the 'replenish, going to the draft' line which I assume barely anyone bought, then they just moved a whole heap of picks around and seemed to go for quantity rather than targeting the very top end so they could go 'look at all the kids we got' and hopefully placate members and fans over the loss of Treloar and a young, high pick himself in Stephenson.

Now they've kicked it down the road again, moved a heap of pieces around and sold themselves almost fully out of another draft. In the end, the only really elite, top end junior talent they are going to get is Daicos. That's not to discount how some of the others may come on, but it's a reality in terms of draft capital.

Is it possible they are trying to muddy the waters with all the crazy moving of picks to make it hard for people to go "well you traded x and y and got z so it's a bad situation" which is common in drafting and trading opinions? For instance, a basic trade like Weller for pick 2 is easy for people to either call it a win or loss eventually. I just wonder if them spreading it out 3 years to take their medicine is a PR tactic in some ways in the hopes some might forget and they don't have to immediately deal with the fallout of what was a pretty unprecedented shitstorm.

It just doesn't seem like the ideal way to start a rebuild.

 

[RobJD]

Unfortunately I agree. I think the kids of 2020 are doing well and look good for where they have come in the draft but overall Pies have one of the weakest group of youngsters in the comp. Nick D helps a lot but I was hoping we could do all this and keep 2022 1st and 2nd. We lack high end talent amongst our young players and need Nick D and 2022 1st (pick 1-4 seems very likely) to be great results to really be the basis of what I think will be a pretty long rebuild.

I don't know if I'm looking too far into it, but do you think it's possible that some Collingwood decisions are being made in a way to almost cover up the mess of the fire sale under Guy? They tried to spin the 'replenish, going to the draft' line which I assume barely anyone bought, then they just moved a whole heap of picks around and seemed to go for quantity rather than targeting the very top end so they could go 'look at all the kids we got' and hopefully placate members and fans over the loss of Treloar and a young, high pick himself in Stephenson.

Now they've kicked it down the road again, moved a heap of pieces around and sold themselves almost fully out of another draft. In the end, the only really elite, top end junior talent they are going to get is Daicos. That's not to discount how some of the others may come on, but it's a reality in terms of draft capital.

Is it possible they are trying to muddy the waters with all the crazy moving of picks to make it hard for people to go "well you traded x and y and got z so it's a bad situation" which is common in drafting and trading opinions? For instance, a basic trade like Weller for pick 2 is easy for people to either call it a win or loss eventually. I just wonder if them spreading it out 3 years to take their medicine is a PR tactic in some ways in the hopes some might forget and they don't have to immediately deal with the fallout of what was a pretty unprecedented shitstorm.

It just doesn't seem like the ideal way to start a rebuild.

There's no covering up last year's mess - it is what it is, they've not yet lost anything trading out of next years draft and who knows, they may yet get back into it. I think you'll agree that high draft picks aren't everything, they're likely to get a good one this year and they've still got next year's first round - finish near the bottom and lose one or two FA and they could have an awesome hand next year. I reckon there's a hint to the strategy in the trading to include Pick 79 - they now have both 78 and 79 and these are likely to get into the points zone with pick matches, what if Daics isn't picked by North, GWS (they owe us big time) and GCS (we've just helped them out big time) - Daics slips to Pick 5 and the pies have got that covered without needing Pick 22 and Pick 36!

 

[Go Woods]

I don't know if I'm looking too far into it, but do you think it's possible that some Collingwood decisions are being made in a way to almost cover up the mess of the fire sale under Guy? They tried to spin the 'replenish, going to the draft' line which I assume barely anyone bought, then they just moved a whole heap of picks around and seemed to go for quantity rather than targeting the very top end so they could go 'look at all the kids we got' and hopefully placate members and fans over the loss of Treloar and a young, high pick himself in Stephenson.

Now they've kicked it down the road again, moved a heap of pieces around and sold themselves almost fully out of another draft. In the end, the only really elite, top end junior talent they are going to get is Daicos. That's not to discount how some of the others may come on, but it's a reality in terms of draft capital.

Is it possible they are trying to muddy the waters with all the crazy moving of picks to make it hard for people to go "well you traded x and y and got z so it's a bad situation" which is common in drafting and trading opinions? For instance, a basic trade like Weller for pick 2 is easy for people to either call it a win or loss eventually. I just wonder if them spreading it out 3 years to take their medicine is a PR tactic in some ways in the hopes some might forget and they don't have to immediately deal with the fallout of what was a pretty unprecedented shitstorm.

It just doesn't seem like the ideal way to start a rebuild.

Love it! A Carlton supporter so engrossed with what the Pies are building...

 

[Kings of Lygon]

There's no covering up last year's mess - it is what it is, they've not yet lost anything trading out of next years draft and who knows, they may yet get back into it.

They certainly tried to cover it up and act like it was all some kind of plan.

And yes they have lost something, they've lost almost all of their picks in 2022. To trade back in will cost more assets, so again losing more players/picks. You'd hope for a far greater return than last year but that's speaking the obvious.

I think you'll agree that high draft picks aren't everything, they're likely to get a good one this year and they've still got next year's first round - finish near the bottom and lose one or two FA and they could have an awesome hand next year. I reckon there's a hint to the strategy in the trading to include Pick 79 - they now have both 78 and 79 and these are likely to get into the points zone with pick matches, what if Daics isn't picked by North, GWS (they owe us big time) and GCS (we've just helped them out big time) - Daics slips to Pick 5 and the pies have got that covered without needing Pick 22 and Pick 36!

They aren't everything, but the likelihood of getting better players is just higher. I do agree with old mate before that Collingwood's youth isn't that great and I'm not sure the scattergun approach was the way to go - time will tell.

I think hoping for a Daicos bid anything past 3 is extremely optimistic. GWS don't owe you anything, they pulled your pants down yes but they aren't going to not bid just because Ned Guy was inept at his job. I think the same applies to GC, they will look out for their interests and I doubt they could give a stuff about what helps Collingwood.

 

[Kings of Lygon]

Love it! A Carlton supporter so engrossed with what the Pies are building...

Am I not being reasonable and having a discussion? Why does who I support have anything to do with anything?

If you only want to hear from Collingwood supporters, perhaps you'd feel more happy on the Pies board? Just a suggestion.