Opinion Collingwood Almanac 2016

[mocamagic]

Agree on getting Harvey as we have nobody on the list who can impersonate a forward crumber.
Happy to get Wells but injuries always a concern.
WHE definitely keen
And would be delighted if we could get Tomlinson. He could end up having a similar impact to James Clement

 

[Soups]

Just read your weekly wrap KM and I know it's not Collingwood related but would you pick McGrath over McCluggage or are you still big on the latter? Me personally, I just feel McGrath will have a special career. I really like what he brings over the whole ground. Not discounting HM at all, still think he can become a good player.

Also, not much has been mentioned of him but do you think we will look at Campbell Lane later on in the draft seeing as we saw a lot of him through the VFL. I didn't mind what I saw of him, seemed pretty comfortable when he played.

 

[Knightmare]

Agree on getting Harvey as we have nobody on the list who can impersonate a forward crumber.
Happy to get Wells but injuries always a concern.
WHE definitely keen
And would be delighted if we could get Tomlinson. He could end up having a similar impact to James Clement

Harvey is my personal number one priority this offseason to add. He'd be huge for such a range of reasons - list fit and helping winning now, leadership and veteran experience, giving ideas to the strength and condition, coaching and medical staff and give some intel on how he has lasted so long and continued with age to add to his game and maintain such ridiculous durability and sustained performance over such a long time.

WHE has his fans. I'd prefer not to take him. But he is an intriguing possible with some scope to develop without being there at the moment.

Tomlinson has really impressed me late season. Holding his own 1v1. Has always had the endurance. Takes intercept marks. Could improve his kicking. But then again so could the McDonald boys and really the vast majority of key defenders.

Just read your weekly wrap KM and I know it's not Collingwood related but would you pick McGrath over McCluggage or are you still big on the latter? Me personally, I just feel McGrath will have a special career. I really like what he brings over the whole ground. Not discounting HM at all, still think he can become a good player.

Also, not much has been mentioned of him but do you think we will look at Campbell Lane later on in the draft seeing as we saw a lot of him through the VFL. I didn't mind what I saw of him, seemed pretty comfortable when he played.

I'd take McCluggage of the two.

McGrath for me isn't someone I'd be taking with pick one, even if he probably ends up being the pick. He isn't clean enough or quite as good as I'd like by foot. And sub 180cm with his best position being off a back flank isn't an ideal height, with not too many good smalls down back in the comp. But what he does do that makes him a worthwhile early draft selection is the sheer run and workrate from the back half, all the run in support. It creates several scoring opportunities and contributes meaningfully to winning. And at the end of the day, impact is what it's all about.

McCluggage I favour to McGrath based on his game. Probably the best kick/decision maker in the draft. Finishes from anywhere and provides heavy scoreboard impact. Racks up the footy. Freak at ground level. Has the endurance/work rate. He could be higher impact/more influential per possession (though I'd say the same of McGrath - both have games where they have 40 disposals and it will feel more like 20) and he could be stronger physically and more of a hard ball winner. But having the season he has had without much of a preseason, developing as rapidly as he has this season. He is the guy I'd back in, and trust will physically develop.

Lane hasn't been invited to the state (or national) combine, so he probably isn't in the mix being realistic, even though I agree he has been solid this year. Of the top agers from Oakleigh (where Lane plays in the TAC Cup), Lachlan Walker while not inside my top 30, if I'm to extend out to 40 is in there and is a really good all around midfielder. On Lane though he has had a mostly productive year and been fine in the VFL. He has some pace and uses it reasonably well. I wouldn't necessarily recruit him to an AFL club, but for a state league club if looking for someone outside I'd look at him as a potentially good choice as someone who is developable and capable enough.

 

[Prochard123]

Free agency targets:

Brent Harvey: An absolutely must get if he wants to go around again. He is the best kick inside 50m and decision maker under pressure in the game and still has his pace. He remains a best 40 player in the competition in my view and on quality of play would be a best five on list standard player. Given Collingwood’s inability to keep players durable long term the club’s conditioning staff could learn a lot from him and given all the inside players but lack of outside players and ground level forwards Harvey can add a lot. Harvey keeps his body in tip top shape and works harder than just about anyone, and has only twice since 1998 had less than 20 games in a season which speaks to his durability and commitment to keeping in the best possible shape. He would also from a leadership perspective be a great player for all to learn off.

Yes, Harvey is still a top 50 player in the league. He is an extremely effective half-forward/small forward who can occasionally shift to the midfield and be that link up player. Two season of 18 games averaging 20 possessions and kicking 40 goals would be an exellent return for a free agent player. I've always thought salary cap is a less valuable asset than picks/players during the offseason, and as long as the deal is monetarily reasonable, access to players via Free agent is almost always more profitable. Harvey's somewhat lack of pressure can also be covered by the tackling pressure of Mayne/Elliot/Fasolo.

Corey Enright: If Geelong don’t offer Enright a contract, he is a must get for Collingwood. Still the best general backman in the game and his ability to intercept and use the ball out of the back half while still being good enough to contain his opponent is something we need. Enright on Collingwood’s list would instantly become the clubs best backman and would be an instant best five on list standard player and an important list addition from a leadership perspective. Enright not only still can play but also still has the durability, not dropping below 21 games played since 2005.

Yes, you don't overlook a current All Australian player going for free regardless of his age or position. Enright provides leadership like you mentioned and suits our back 6 well, with somewhat accurate kicking and usually good decision making.

Matthew Boyd: Boyd this season has been one the games better general backman, intercepting and using the ball to a high level out of the back half. Boyd would be an instant best 10 on list standard player and add substantial leadership to the list. Will need some managing, but durability has been over the journey excellent.

Yes, very similar to Enright in terms of the longevity and quality of service. However, only recruit 1 of Enright and Boyd as the general down back.

Daniel Wells: Being an unrestricted free agent is gettable. He offers the speed and skill that the club are lacking and is a natural list fit through the midfield and rotating forward. Would be a top 10 on list quality player.
HUGE YES, elite outside midfielder. Still has a couple of years left and is the type of midfielder we have crying out for. Electrifying pace and silky skills. Play him as a winger who set up plays off half back or run and carry the ball on the wing followed by a precise pass inside 50. Literally the perfect fit for us who addresses our areas of deficiency while simultaneously providing enormous point of difference. I genuinely believe, if we get Wells, our midfield group as a whole is top 4 worthy, and we would be one of the stronger teams in the top 8 for our 2017 premiership campaign. With players like Pendlebury and Treloar attracting tags, Wells can truly live up to his full potential.

Scott Thompson: If not signed by Adelaide would be an excellent get through the midfield. Thompson would be a starting onballer as one of the clubs very best stoppage players. Would be a best 10 on list standard player. Thompson takes pride in his body and keeps it in tip top condition, and has maintained excellent durability over a long time not playing less than 19 games since 2004. From a leadership and example perspective he would also be a terrific get.

No, Thompson could be serviceable and potentially an upgrade on Crisp/Greenwood, but he won't be worth it. The difference between Thompson and Crisp/Greenwood is not enough to justify the loss in pace(Crisp), loss of tagging options(Crisp, Greenwood) and De Goey's growth as an inside midfielder. This is especially a bad recruit if it means we lose Wells/Harvey because of it. Thompson has virtually no pace and terrible footskills at the moment. Also, he negatively influences the diversity of our rotations, at least Crisp can play on a wing and Greenwood has shown some degree of capability as a forward.

Tom Lonergan: Still one of the best key defenders in the game, beating his opponent seemingly every week while being less of a liability down back relative to Brown and Frost as a more able intercepter. Would be a best 10 on list standard addition.

Conditional, probably worth getting if cheap under a short contract, and will be a decent upgrade on Brown as FB. However, not overly excited with Brown already being a serviceable AFL KPD capable of providing many years more of football. If getting Loneragan means we lose Brown to North, then it's a definite no.

Jimmy Bartel: Has had yet another productive season. Can play anywhere and delivers in the big moments in the big games. Would be a best 15 on list standard performer still. Good leader who brings important experience and versatility to a team lacking both. Only the one season of less than 20 games since 2005 is a big tick for durability.

Conditional, no longer consistently wins his own ball but can be creative with disposal. Think he will improve our best 22 to some degree, and will be worth recruiting ONLY IF we miss out on Harvey. Both is excess.

Nick Dal Santo: Has remained productive and effective with his ball use again this season. Durability remains excellent having only dropped below 22 games in one season since 2004. Also offers versatility to play midfield, back or forward as required. Would be a best 15 on list standard performer.

Conditional, disposals still somewhat accurate and remains as a silky player. Disagree with his ability to play as a forward, however he could play on the wing with occasional stints of half-back and clearance work. ONLY RECRUIT IF Collingwood misses out on Wells.

Sean Dempster: Still a very good role playing general backman who can play tall or small, shutdown opponents and offer some rebound when given the freedom to. Would be a best 15 on list standard player.
No. Not an upgrade on existing players and is excess talent.

Sam Fisher: Still a highly effective key defender and would be a best 15 on list standard player. Only query is substandard durability having not played more than 18 games since 2011. Could either compliment Reid or be someone who can step in, in the place of Reid if unavailable for selection and play a good variety of footy.

No. Not an upgrade on existing players and is excess talent.

Chris Mayne: Medium forward who leads up well and offers good pressure by position and could fit as a something like a short-medium term Cloke replacement. He has the game to be a best 18 on list standard player and a good component to the team without being a standout.
Yes, but not at the cost mentioned. Personally, I originally really liked this move as he addresses an area of deficiency and being a genuine forward capable of decent scoreboard impact unlike other midfielders we have stuffed in our forward line. However, 500-600k for 4 years? What would other Collingwood players think? Will Sidebottom, Reid, Elliot be satisfied with their pay coming into 2017? Could it possibly influence other players' performance as they feel undervalued as employee/player and not put in their 100% for games? It could also leave other players questioning Collingwood's drafting/salary cap department, as they seem to try rip off existing great players salary wise and use the extra cash to recruit mediocre/ok players, causing them to contemplate the idea of moving clubs.

Ricky Henderson: Tall, rebounding backman who has improved with age. Not a clear best 22 player, but a likely best 22 player who would be well in the mix and could be a good get who can make a difference with his production and long kicking but reliable kicking from half back a feature of his game and something Collingwood need more of with so many conservative ball users down back.

No, there are better options both younger and older than him. Has his strengths which do suit us but his defensive liability is just too much.
Dennis Armfield: Has some Travis Varcoe to him with his pace and exciting chase down tackling ability. Not a certain best 22 player, but an 18-25 on list type who offers value due to still having his pace and being able to offer good forward pressure.
No.

Jack Grimes: A still productive back flanker/wing who was once co-captain of Melbourne. Grimes’ value to the club is the leadership and stability he can provide down back which presently is missing. Grimes can be a best 18-25 player off a back flank as a still productive footballer and has more good footy ahead of him, body permitting, as someone who has been underutilised by Melbourne this season. The relative weakness is his footskills which are below average which is all that stops him from being a certain best 22 player.

No, he is currently projecting to be a nothing player who lacks all the right tools to excel at his position. Footskills is absolutely essential for any prolific back flanker/wing along with pace. His pace isn't oustanding, and he does not have any contested ability to make up for his other imperfections. Not worth considering.

Will Minson (situational): If Jarrod Witts gets traded, Minson would prove an ideal depth ruckman behind Grundy who can offer value as a mentor to the clubs developing ruckmen and come in and play as required at AFL level to a suitable standard. Minson could prove largely the Ben Hudson equivalent of a few years ago and if demand is low would be a good get as a rookie.

No, if Witts is traded, I'd prefer Maric over Minson. Minson's ruckwork and playstyle is severely outdated, whereas Maric to a greater extent portrays the demand of rucks. Maric had been a better tap ruckman, which allows us Grundy to improve his game further

To prove a point. Assuming Cloke and Witts are traded and to allow for the necessary salary cap perhaps Brown and Blair leave as free agent and some lesser names get traded. We could just via free agency gain the less demanded still available free agents to a very well balance best 22 of:
B: Sean Dempster Tom Lonergan Corey Enright
HB: Matthew Boyd Ben Reid Jeremy Howe
CEN: Steele Sidebottom Scott Thompson Daniel Wells
HF: Brent Harvey Chris Mayne Travis Varcoe
F: Alex Fasolo Darcy Moore Jamie Elliott
FOLL: Brodie Grundy Scott Pendlebury Adam Treloar
BENCH: Nick Dal Santo Jimmy Bartel Taylor Adams Sam Fisher
EMG: Ricky Henderson Jordan De Goey Marley Williams

 

[Knightmare]

The Mayne point, and I'd say the same of Wells, I like both players but only would look at them conditional on their deals being reasonable but not pricey.

Brent Harvey for me is the priority. Corey Enright and Matthew Boyd would be next on the list if they can't come to terms with their current clubs.

From there, if Dal Santo/Bartel/Lonergan/Thompson/Dempster/Henderson etc cost around half of what Wells or Mayne do, I'd take the quantity of those guys instead with a view towards maximising the quality of the clubs best 22.

With Wells' durability concerns over time I can't justifying paying him substantially more than a Dal Santo or Bartel when those guys by contast while productive still in their own rights front up each season for 20+ games.

I'd take an even firmer stance with Mayne. While Mayne is very durable, he isn't on quality of play necessarily ahead of or more worthwhile than the numbers of others from my free agent hit list.

--
From the free agent lists I'd overall be looking for the greatest quantity of players from: Harvey, Enright, Boyd, Wells, Thompson, Lonergan, Bartel, Dal Santo, Dempster, Fisher, Mayne and Henderson.

With the greatest quantity from the trade list of: Fyfe, Rockliff, Mitchell, Hawkins, T.Boyd, Tomlinson, Deledio, Hanley, Motlop, B.Goddard, Mackenzie, Burgoyne, Barlow, L.Jetta, Garlett and Rohan. With all my other players mentioned more optionals.

Many of the free agents will sign with their current clubs and have no interest in moving - Enright, Boyd, Thompson all look likely to remain at this stage. Lonergan, Bartel, Dempster and Fisher also plausibly could remain.

And of the trade list it may only be Hanley, Motlop, Mackenzie and one or two others on the move.

But in my view, the more of that list of players we can add, the better we'll be as a result with all being best 22 material and in the most part players who fill list needs.

 

[Saintly Viewed]

Knightmare agree out of the older brigade, Harvey is primo target.

Is Fyfe a real possible say end of 2017 (next year I presume is the timing)

Personally I'm not for lots of older ones, but a couple or so, is fine.

Now to Rockliff? Whilst I'm not really into rumours, it might Beaton is something of a peanut, and if so is it even worth it? What would he bring that compensates for character assuming it's poor? So it's a no for me on Rockliff, but happy to be persuaded otherwise.

(I'm very malleable in these things, a better Collingwood is my focus.)

 

[Knightmare]

Knightmare agree out of the older brigade, Harvey is primo target.

Is Fyfe a real possible say end of 2017 (next year I presume is the timing)

Personally I'm not for lots of older ones, but a couple or so, is fine.

Now to Rockliff? Whilst I'm not really into rumours, it might Beaton is something of a peanut, and if so is it even worth it? What would he bring that compensates for character assuming it's poor? So it's a no for me on Rockliff, but happy to be persuaded otherwise.

(I'm very malleable in these things, a better Collingwood is my focus.)

It's always about constant improvement and getting better every year - or it should be. We've been getting younger for the most part over the years rather than better which has been a problem. Some of that has been out of our control with veterans declining or retiring early, and others wanting out. But there is always more that can be done to add players who can enhance a clubs best 22 and improve your winning chances.

Very minimal chance Fyfe goes anywhere. Perhaps he moves to West Coast. His plan is to sign on in 2017 at some stage. But it hasn't stopped Gold Coast from making a big offer, and if a club is making a serious offer as Gold Coast have, then you have to put yourself in the mix just in case he is open to leaving what is now a rebuilding club with no chances of success any time soon with no young core group developing.

Clubs also are chasing Rockliff with Adelaide and St Kilda expressing strong interest already. Unclear again whether Rockliff moves but again with clubs expressing strong interest, you have to enquire and make an offer - as in a Collingwood context he is something like another Dane Swan and well worth it.

 

[noideaatall]

Yes, you don't overlook a current All Australian player going for free regardless of his age or position. Enright provides leadership like you mentioned and suits our back 6 well, with somewhat accurate kicking and usually good decision making.

Yet the pies did and so did other clubs with regards to Leon Davis 2010/11.

 

[TradeDraft]

With Wells Coming In. I dare say he would take Aish's spot on the Wing. So I guess Knightmare you could be Right for Aish to be in the Best 18 he might have to play off the Half Back Line as I don't think Aish be ready next year to be a Full-Time Midfielder.

You agree with that Knightmare or Not?

 

[Knightmare]

With Wells Coming In. I dare say he would take Aish's spot on the Wing. So I guess Knightmare you could be Right for Aish to be in the Best 18 he might have to play off the Half Back Line as I don't think Aish be ready next year to be a Full-Time Midfielder.

You agree with that Knightmare or Not?

Wells isn't a sure thing to come to Collingwood. We're giving him the most appealing $ offer but Geelong also I expect will make a run at him.

I expect Wells if Collingwood do get him would take Aish's spot as a wing/hf.

Aish's best chances to be best 22, or starting 18 I would agree would be off half back. We don't have star power down back but Aish with a strong preseason may be able to establish himself in the back half.

 

[TradeDraft]

Wells isn't a sure thing to come to Collingwood. We're giving him the most appealing $ offer but Geelong also I expect will make a run at him.

I expect Wells if Collingwood do get him would take Aish's spot as a wing/hf.

Aish's best chances to be best 22, or starting 18 I would agree would be off half back. We don't have star power down back but Aish with a strong preseason may be able to establish himself in the back half.

Going what is Been Reported by Everyone that Wells is about 95-99% Chance coming to Collingwood.

I say he be Best 22 with a Strong Pre-Season

 

[Soups]

Well KM, McCluggage vs McGrath debate was put to bed today. That was was a nice show between him and Taranto.

 

[Knightmare]

Well KM, McCluggage vs McGrath debate was put to bed today. That was was a nice show between him and Taranto.

One game never tells the whole story.

McGrath probably is still favourite to go number one and offered some good run at times, but McCluggage with the four goals was the more damaging today.

Taranto is quality. Good forward and through the midfield.

 

[Soups]

One game never tells the whole story.

McGrath probably is still favourite to go number one and offered some good run at times, but McCluggage with the four goals was the more damaging today.

Taranto is quality. Good forward and through the midfield.

No you're right but I think Essendon would be silly to pass him up. Like you say, goal kicking mids are hard to come by.

Florent has really elevated his rankings, if he can improve his kicking he could be a really damaging player. Also, loved Bolton's game, we could really use his X factor.

Who's game did you like that may not be getting much attention?

 

[adammania9]

KM, just a message of appreciation for all you do on Bigfooty. I enjoy reading everything you have to say, as you include offer pros and cons, very in-depth analysis for everything you post as well as including zero bias in your posts. Your draft thread is terrific.

What is your honest opinion on the three of Patrick Kerr, Josh Battle and Todd Marshall; the three standout key forwards in this year's ND. Do you believe they're worth upgrading for in the trade period and then pursuing in the national draft or should another position be prioritised with the real pursuit for a forward to happen next year, in the draft supposedly filled with talls and a lot of key forwards at other clubs coming off contract?

 

[Knightmare]

No you're right but I think Essendon would be silly to pass him up. Like you say, goal kicking mids are hard to come by.

Florent has really elevated his rankings, if he can improve his kicking he could be a really damaging player. Also, loved Bolton's game, we could really use his X factor.

Who's game did you like that may not be getting much attention?

GWS may trade for that first overall pick.

They desperately want McGrath (with a view to have McGrath succeed Shaw off HB) with their backline aging.

If Essendon (in a flat draft - even top 10 to be specific) can get two top 10 picks for pick 1, they should do it.

Bolton was my best on for impact. Scrimshaw I felt also played one of his better games. Petrevski-Seton was terrific through the midfield.

Florent did well and also had a good finals series. He is probably a first rounder now.

From today's game they're basically all gaining attention as the majority of this years projected better prospects.

But the draft prospects I list on page one are among those I feel represent strong value and aren't really getting the attention they probably should.

KM, just a message of appreciation for all you do on Bigfooty. I enjoy reading everything you have to say, as you include offer pros and cons, very in-depth analysis for everything you post as well as including zero bias in your posts. Your draft thread is terrific.

What is your honest opinion on the three of Patrick Kerr, Josh Battle and Todd Marshall; the three standout key forwards in this year's ND. Do you believe they're worth upgrading for in the trade period and then pursuing in the national draft or should another position be prioritised with the real pursuit for a forward to happen next year, in the draft supposedly filled with talls and a lot of key forwards at other clubs coming off contract?

I'm all about analysis.

It's something in the media landscape and AFL landscape broadly I feel there isn't enough of and it's something I hope for more opportunities to do - be it draft, list management etc.

It's not a good year for key forwards at all. None inspire me with any real confidence. Marshall is still viewed as a first round selection and has the attributes to be something but hasn't performed which makes him a risky choice - Sam Day if we look back to 2010 was picked at 3 overall and also seemed on the surface to have all the attributes but then like Marshall didn't get the numbers, so you have to be slightly weary. Increasingly it looks like he'll go 10-20 in this draft, with a poor finals series and another quiet showing today. But at that height he is developable, freakish at ground level, able overhead. Focused on cricket and playing for Murray has trained and had very little time in an AFL program, so the scope to improve is certainly there. I wouldn't trade up to him, but if there in the second round, or if we for whatever reason end up with a late first round pick, I'd take a shot on him.

Battle and Kerr both probably feature in the second round. Battle for me is the better player. Good skills, good endurance. Better scoreboard impact. If there in the second round is worth strong consideration. Kerr by foot I find to be very erratic and while good during the Under 18 Championships he for me lacks a point of difference. Marshall has the height and ground level ability. Battle the midfield level endurance and skills. Kerr doesn't really have anything, so given that I wouldn't personally select him, he looks like a state league key forward to me.

In terms of points of difference. Every good key forward in the AFL has something that makes them great. Franklin with his freakish ground level game. Cameron with his smarts to keep getting out the back and getting it. Cloke a few years back with his contested marking taking the air out of it. N.Riewoldt with his endurance and work rate. Etc. So given that, as key forwards Marshall and Battle are the only two I'd project as likely AFL quality.

Ratugolea is another key forward who I wouldn't discount entirely. He just can't kick at all - drop punts, snaps etc. He just really struggles by foot. But perhaps as a rookie if there, he has the heart - flying for everything, sometimes taking the mark or if not then always bringing it to ground for crumbers. Then has the ground level power and really goes hard at the ball and tackles with rare intensity - anything he can get to, he'll impact and influence which makes him intriguing.

--
We need a key forward desperately, but if we can't get one through trade week or free agency, next year for me is the year to go for one through the draft. Five of my top 10 in my power rankings for next year are key forwards or rucks who can play as key forwards. And probably another 2-3 key forwards would fit into my top 20. Things can change as they did this year with a few key forwards not coming on as expected but with that quantity, I'd hope those better talls continue developing well next season.

 

[Prochard123]

Hey KM,

Assuming we do get Mayne, and not Harvey ( I havent heard any news/rumour about him coming to collingwood), what will our forward line look like? Will both Cox and White play?

 

[Knightmare]

Hey KM,

Assuming we do get Mayne, and not Harvey ( I havent heard any news/rumour about him coming to collingwood), what will our forward line look like? Will both Cox and White play?

Probably just the one of White or Cox would play if Mayne is added.

My hope is that Cox passes White by, and with another preseason he may but that remains unclear until we see how much progress he makes over the offseason.

My preference would be for Cox ahead of White with Cox the clearly better tap ruckman and in a smaller structure with Mayne at CHF I also like Cox because when pushed deep he is the harder to contain and more dangerous marking target i50, which can work well with Moore who is can push up higher and is just as good on the deck as he is aerially.

I'd look at a front half of:
HF: (To be determined) Chris Mayne (To be determined)
F: Alex Fasolo Darcy Moore Jamie Elliott
Ruck 2: Mason Cox

 

[Prochard123]

Nat Fyfe: After Dangerfield, Fyfe is the best midfielder in the game and if open to moving would be a perfect fit with his dominant contested ball winning and ability to push forward and take a grab.


What I would be willing to offer (not necessarily correlating with what would be enough to get the player): Combination of players outside best seven of player value rankings and/or picks.


Yes, with a player of Fyfe's calibre, you must show interest and put in a severe offer regardless of the situation. Not only will he significantly improve any team's best 22, it also has the added factor of attracting future big names. Elite players looking for new homes need to be shown that Collingwood has the ability and willingness to fully commit to top talent.




Tom Rockliff: One of the better midfielders in the game and probably the most productive in the competition when on his game. Would be an excellent Dane Swan replacement as that ultra-productive midfielder.


What I would be willing to offer (not necessarily correlating with what would be enough to get the player): Combination of players outside best 15 of player value rankings or picks.


Conditional, Rockliff has outstanding production, but it's compromised by his durability issues. He's worth trading for under the right cost in terms of picks and salary.


Tom Mitchell: Such an impressive accumulator and ball winner through the midfield. If Sydney show any willingness to move him, he would be a worthy successor as a Swan-like ball magnet through the midfield.


What I would be willing to offer (not necessarily correlating with what would be enough to get the player): Combination of players outside best 15 of player value rankings or picks.


HUGE YES, prominent talent and fits out team extremely well. Looking at our cohort of inside midfielders, none of them genuinely excel at ground ball gets or extracting the ball from contests except for Adams and to some degree Treloar. Players like Mitchell creates space for his teammates and makes the midfield look better at contests in general.


Tom Hawkins: If Hawkins goes out of favour, he would be a terrific get as one of the more underrated players in the AFL at the moment. With all the talk about players requiring versatility to be effective, people are losing sight of how hard this guy is to defend. Hawkins while a two-dimensional overpower and mark or mark on lead type forward, he remains today still a best 10 key forward in the game and would make any team better. On Collingwood’s list Hawkins would be a best ten on list standard player.


What I would be willing to offer (not necessarily correlating with what would be enough to get the player): Combination of players outside best 15 of player value rankings and/or picks.


No, if Hawkins fall out of Favour at Geelong, a club with such little KPF talent, then that says alot about Hawkins and he won't be of any use to us.


Thomas Boyd: Has struggled for regular senior AFL selection and form has only been so-so to this point for the Dogs. Big guys always take time to adjust and learn how to dominate at AFL level. I expect Boyd in a few years’ time becomes a monster up forward along the lines of what Hawkins has become as a power forward, and if he can learn off Cloke that would only help his development. Perfect fit alongside Moore as a power forward. Still has the scope with time to become a best 10 key forward in the game and a potential best ten on list standard player in the future.
What I would be willing to offer (not necessarily correlating with what would be enough to get the player): Combination of players outside best 15 of player value rankings or picks.

Won't happen. 3 quarters of the Bulldoogs list management staff will be fired if Boyd turns out to be a massive bust and is traded to another club cheaply. The Bulldogs will also hold onto him for a long period of time regardless of his form. Will either prove to be too costly or he simply won't develop well and become John Butcher 2.0.


Adam Tomlinson: Provide himself late season as a key defender with his endurance elite by position, having the body on body strength to contain opposing forwards and being able to take some intercept marks. Can in time develop into a best 10 on list standard player and looms as a long term key defender for a team.


What I would be willing to offer (not necessarily correlating with what would be enough to get the player): Late first round selection or an equivalent level player.

Won't happen. Commited to GWS, would've left this year if he really wanted to. Not worth selling the farm for either.

Brett Deledio: If Richmond shop Deledio he would be a game changing addition. He has his ongoing injuries to manage but his standard of play remains high and off a forward flank he makes the team better as a best five on list quality player.


What I would be willing to offer (not necessarily correlating with what would be enough to get the player): Late first round selection or an equivalent level player.

Yes, still a highly influential player with potentially 3 more good years to go. Seems to play his best football as a half forward now and has all the right skills to become All Australian in that role if fit. However, he's in a similar situation as Wells, both of whom can instantly significantly improve our best 22, but durability is a major issue at hand.


Pearce Hanley: One of the better outside running players in the game and off either a wing or half back flank would be an ideal list fit and instant best ten on list standard player.


What I would be willing to offer (not necessarily correlating with what would be enough to get the player): Late first round selection or an equivalent level player.

No, talent and playing ability wise he's still very good. However, I consider Deledio, Wells, Harvey all as better alternatives without having to give up any trading asset. He won't come cheap either with Brisbane probably demanding a first round pick. Is he good and project to be a best 22 player? Yes. Is he worth the cost? No.

Steven Motlop: Has been better than advertised this year with a 450+ disposal, 38 goal season. Off half forward for some outside polish and finishing would be an ideal list fit and an instant best 10 on list standard player.


What I would be willing to offer (not necessarily correlating with what would be enough to get the player): Late first round selection or an equivalent level player.

Yes, but just barely. His talent is unquestionable, and he does address one of our areas of deficiency. Unfortunately, his lack of discipline is a significant issue, as even a club with a strong culture in terms of work ethics like Geelong can't improve his behaviour. However, he is probably at close to a 5 year low in terms of his personal trade value despite having a very decent season. He most likely won't get any cheaper, being somewhat like a share full of potential and having reached rock-bottom price. 1 good season will see his value go through the roof. Another poor season won't see his value decrease by much. It's really not much of a gamble if we are paying a price that represents the lower end of his performance. Now's the time to bring him in.

Brendan Goddard: Still an impactful outside player who uses the ball well and finds plenty of it. Leadership value a bonus. Would be a best 10 on list standard player.


What I would be willing to offer (not necessarily correlating with what would be enough to get the player): Second round pick or equivalent level player.

No. There are better, cheaper players in the market offering the same set of traits. His leadership has some clear flaws. Flaming and yelling at teammates is something a leader should almost always avoid, as a drop in confidence will be reflected in the player's performance. I'm really not sold on his leadership, and it seems like this "characteristic" of his is only attributed due to his experience rather than his expertise.

Eric Mackenzie: With this season behind him after his ACL, he can return to being a highly effective key defender again. Can also provide much needed veteran leadership down back. Would be a best 15 on list standard player.


What I would be willing to offer (not necessarily correlating with what would be enough to get the player): Second round pick or equivalent level player.

Won't happen.

Shaun Burgoyne: If Hawthorn decide that Burgoyne is too old and they want to get younger, I’d make a strong play for him. No player in the AFL is better in the big moments and with his versatility to play and have an impact anywhere he is an easy best 22 fit who can help against the better teams and provide some much needed veteran leadership. Would be a best 15 on list standard player.


What I would be willing to offer (not necessarily correlating with what would be enough to get the player): Third round pick or equivalent level player.

Won't happen.

Michael Barlow: Highly productive and underrated midfielder. Can still play and would be an instant best 15 player who makes you better.


What I would be willing to offer (not necessarily correlating with what would be enough to get the player): Third round pick or equivalent level player.

Yes. A better version of Thompson IMO, having greater impact at a slightly younger age. Contested beast and is highly underrated. At his best, while playing his best position, he really can be a top 15 or top 20 inside midfielder in the comp. He's also a good extractor similar to T. Mitchell. He's what we've always wanted from Greenwood and Crisp in terms of defensive pressure as well as clearance contribution, although Crisp has some potential to play as a wingman.

Lewis Jetta: If he gets fed up with limited opportunities for West Coast, he would be a terrific get as a line breaker on the wing. Still has his pace and as an outside type will have his down years just as often as he will have his better years.


What I would be willing to offer (not necessarily correlating with what would be enough to get the player): Third round pick or equivalent level player.

Won't happen.

Jeff Garlett: If he goes out of favour with Melbourne would prove a good get with his pace, scoreboard impact and tackling. Has his inconsistencies but I’d be prepared to live with that given how good his best is.


What I would be willing to offer (not necessarily correlating with what would be enough to get the player): Third round pick or equivalent level player.

No, wrong place, wrong time. Fasolo and Elliot are already better than him. Crocker has the potential to easily overtake him. Mayne provides similar service with marking instead of pace. When he does fall out of favour with Melbourne, he won't be a desirable target for Collingwood. However, if he was in the market this season, maybe he's worth considering at a cheap price.

Gary Rohan: A risk based on injury history and inconsistent performance. Has gamechanging ability and super explosive pace. He could go either way and needs to find a best position, but if he works out, he could work out in a big way with his talent.


What I would be willing to offer (not necessarily correlating with what would be enough to get the player): Third round pick or equivalent level player.

Won't happen.

Trent McKenzie: McKenzie has struggled for the last few years with a combination or form and injury issues. I feel in the most part he was been used wrongly, getting exposed too deep in the back half in 1v1 contests. McKenzie I feel would be best used in a wing/back flank role.


What I would be willing to offer (not necessarily correlating with what would be enough to get the player): Fourth round selection or equivalent standard player.

No. In the modern age, all defenders must have some shutdown capability, I mean it is what their role intends to do in the first place. The only thing going for Mckenzie is the distance of his kicks, not even the accuracy. Such one dimensional player will almost never survive in the AFL system.

Ivan Maric: If Witts is traded Maric would present a suitable choice as a depth ruckman who can provide leadership if his body is in suitable shape to continue playing.


What I would be willing to offer (not necessarily correlating with what would be enough to get the player): Fourth round selection or equivalent standard player.

Yes. Reasons explained above Will Minson.

Players Collingwood have been linked to (and thoughts):


Lin Jong: Quick at his height but poor kick and depth player who doesn’t play any position to a best 22 standard. Not someone I want to see on Collingwood’s senior list. Depth only.

Really bad fit for Collingwood, but is most likely the best we can get for Cloke.

Shane Kersten: Not quite a key forward, being more so used as a third tall forward. Had a stretch of good games but has had too many games without any goals. For me not the answer to the club’s key forward questions. Has some best 22 chances but would for me be a depth player.

No.

Ed Langdon: Has shown some promising signs late season but ultimately scoreboard impact and contested ball winning numbers are not where they need to be to suggest he has a consistent AFL career. Has some best 22 chances but would for me be a depth player.

Good player, but no. Both Broomhead and Aish plays a similar role as him while being more talented. By the time Langdon becomes available again, it is likely one of Broomhead and Aish has already established himself as a best 22 half forward alongside Sidebottom/Fasolo/Howe/Elliot/Mayne. Could be good to trade for this season, but not later.

Adam Tomlinson: As in previous section I endorse the club making a play at Tomlinson given his 1v1 strength, endurance and some intercepting ability down back. Looks like a clear best 22 player and an excellent long term piece to build with.

No, for reasons stated .

Caleb Marchbank: His second season has been a write off with injury. Has shown promise down back is not a proven player and someone I would only consider if it’s a reasonable trade but would not overspend on. Looks like he likely future best 18 player but likely not a top tier talent.

Won't happen. Whoever trades for him this season will offer a long term contract and he will most likely stay at that club. Otherwise, his trade value is highly inflated by his draft number which really doesn't reflect his ability.

James Stewart: Had a good but not outstanding season in the NEAFL. Continues to improve from season to season and is a terrific athlete. Is someone who projects to be a best 18-25 player and as such Stewart is someone if as a throw-in as part of a deal I would be willing to consider, but he is not someone I would make a priority.

Yes, but only at a very cheap price. Normally I'd say that without being selected in the mid 20 range and if he doesn't have the ideal KPF size, then he's really worth nothing. However, giving up a 3rd roudner or fringe player for him, and letting him develop in the VFL does make a sound investment.

Will Hoskin-Elliott: Has excellent speed and endurance. Can fly for a mark and provide some scoreboard impact. Doesn’t find or win enough of the ball. Injury prone. Best 18-25 player who I’m open to if available on the cheap but would not be willing to spend heavily on.

Yes. Potential is huge, risk is high. However the potential outweighs the risk and the costs associated, simple as that.

Ivan Maric: As above a suitable list addition if Witts is traded. Would offer good leadership and depth.

 

[Knightmare]

Eric Mackenzie is expected to be on the move this offseason. The rumours are also that he will be available on the cheap.

I really like his game, and favour him to Brown/Frost, as a less bad rebounder who is every bit as good of a stopper as Brown. Feels underappreciated by WCE who seem to be going in another direction.

 

[Number 10]

KM, with the success the Bulldogs has seen without that key forward kicking 3-4 goals a game, but a raft of goal kicking mids/small forwards who can stand up and hit the scoreboard on their day, similar to Geelong circa 2007 and 2009 with Ablett and Chapman their key goal kickers in those years, I personally don't see a need to fill the void left by Cloke. So long as we sort out our forward potency.

Yes, we get Elliott back and Fasolo hopefully plays a whole season, but we've lost Swan as one of our most damaging inside 50 and I would rather Fasolo delivering inside 50 than playing as a key goal kicker. Taking Harvey out of the equation, I think long term our priority should be to move one of our talented mids to the forward line full time to play that Clay Smith roll. Someone like Aish or Sidebottom with their goal sense. I would also like to see Broomhead get shifted into that Didak position if he can get fit, but that remains the big question mark.

I would love to see us go hard for a mid sized forward with great skills over anything else. Who would we be looking at in that case and what are your thoughts on the fwd line mix when it comes to winning grand finals?

By the way - Buckley just said on AFL Pre game that Harvey is not coming to Collingwood. As I was typing

 

[well left]

Eric Mackenzie is expected to be on the move this offseason. The rumours are also that he will be available on the cheap.

I really like his game, and favour him to Brown/Frost, as a less bad rebounder who is every bit as good of a stopper as Brown. Feels underappreciated by WCE who seem to be going in another direction.

If Brown is on the move that would be a smart move to replace him with Mackenzie. Not sure what we'd be looking at as a trade for him. If Marley was hell bent on going home maybe he could be involved?

 

[PIEWITHSAUCE]

Nathan has ruled out Harvey playing for the Pies..............but then I suppose he ruled out Balmey leaving

 

[Knightmare]

KM, with the success the Bulldogs has seen without that key forward kicking 3-4 goals a game, but a raft of goal kicking mids/small forwards who can stand up and hit the scoreboard on their day, similar to Geelong circa 2007 and 2009 with Ablett and Chapman their key goal kickers in those years, I personally don't see a need to fill the void left by Cloke. So long as we sort out our forward potency.

Yes, we get Elliott back and Fasolo hopefully plays a whole season, but we've lost Swan as one of our most damaging inside 50 and I would rather Fasolo delivering inside 50 than playing as a key goal kicker. Taking Harvey out of the equation, I think long term our priority should be to move one of our talented mids to the forward line full time to play that Clay Smith roll. Someone like Aish or Sidebottom with their goal sense. I would also like to see Broomhead get shifted into that Didak position if he can get fit, but that remains the big question mark.

I would love to see us go hard for a mid sized forward with great skills over anything else. Who would we be looking at in that case and what are your thoughts on the fwd line mix when it comes to winning grand finals?

By the way - Buckley just said on AFL Pre game that Harvey is not coming to Collingwood. As I was typing

While Western Bulldogs are in the grand final, I don't look at them necessarily as a great team (yet). Long term their list is after GWS' the next best. You have to remember though, they finished 7th in the H+A season, so they're not on current play the strongest team (whether or not they win today).

In terms of key forwards though, Stringer at CHF still has 41 goals (56 last season) - 22 games in each season to this point. He is unconventional by position, but still is a high enough volume goalkicking forward.

Broomhead on HF is a suitable choice and can be a long term component if he can keep healthy. Elliott and Fasolo are both good. So there are some pieces. Moore obviously. Maybe Cox if he continues his rapid improvement this offseason.

Steve Johnson could have been the skilled medium forward this year and was one I spoke about at length last year. This year it's probably something we can find through the draft - Lachlan Tiziani is one I like who could be something like that.

Very disappointing to hear Buckley isn't going after Harvey. Losing a free opportunity at someone who can improve our list considerably and fill a list hole we would otherwise be unable to adequately fill in the short term. I was watching the u17s so didn't hear the interview.

If Brown is on the move that would be a smart move to replace him with Mackenzie. Not sure what we'd be looking at as a trade for him. If Marley was hell bent on going home maybe he could be involved?

The talk with Williams is that he may be going to Richmond. His situation from what I understand is he just hasn't been able to agree with the club on a deal - whether it's $ or duration of contract, I'm not informed.

Williams could plausibly get us Mackenzie. West Coast may just take a 3rd round pick though, which would be an easier way to get the deal done which Mackenzie's value feeling low.

Nathan has ruled out Harvey playing for the Pies..............but then I suppose he ruled out Balmey leaving

Awful blunder by the club.

Harvey represents stronger value than Wells and I'd argue has more left than Wells.

Had I known I would have gotten in Dekka's ear after yesterdays game, passing him on the way out of the ground.

 

[Prochard123]

Hey KM,
To what do you attribute the Bulldogs premiership this year?

They don't seem to have star KPF or KPD. Their ruck is very mediocre, and their midfield is great without being absolutely exceptional. They don't seem to have a position that allows them to win a game based on it, maybe midfield, but if that's the case, why are we so much worse this year? Is it because they have a greater balance of inside/outside midfielders? Is there a trend of less and less reliance on KPF and thus less value of KPD? Maybe Moore playing as the sole KPF is enough as the games are becoming faster and more importance is placed on the stamina of midfielders.