Collingwood FC

[PieLebo87]

Firstly, to anyone that has read my last few posts, Id just like to apologise, its pretty much the same, Im being positive. But this board is out of control, just thought Id create a thread on the topic.

Pie fans who are going crazy and jumping to big conclusions.
Sack MM, drop bla bla bla, and bla bla bla. We are hopeless ect.

All of you need to take a step back and relax, look at the bigger picture because you are being to simple minded.

First, the most obvious point, we are in Round 4. ONLY Rd 4!

Secondly, we are missing our best midfielder, our best player, and our most influencial player (Dutch, Dids, Bucks) This is a massive difference.

Thirdly, we are 2 and 2. Most likely, 2 and 3 in 4 days but so what?
You didnt expect that at the start of the year? Look at the 2nd point. Bucks did a hammy, Dids was coming back from a reco and Holland was gonna be suspended for the first 6 weeks! We managed to win 2 out of the first few games WITHOUT.......

Forthly, without any of our seniors really standing up and having a good start. To have managed 2 wins from 4 games without Clement dominating, without Cloke dominating in the forward line, without Rusling, without Lica dominating. With LOCKYER leading the Copeland is an unbelieveable achievement.


Guys, you need to relax a little, we are doing fine. We have had an interupted start to the season because of injuries, but thats all it is! We will be fine once Buckley is back in that forward line, once Dids is showing his magic, once the youngsters get some composure.

A big point, put some money on Brodie Holland to win the Copeland Trophy!
This guy has had his pre-season pushed out by an extra 2 months!
He is having a 16 RD season, for a midfielder that is heaven. He would be raring to go and will be phenomenal when he gets back in because he'll hit the ground running!

We are suffering in the ruck department, but when havent we? We made 2 GFs without a ruckman, so is it something new now? Its not our ruck department thats stuffed, we dont even have a ruck, its our midfielders in the stoppages and clearances department thats not on their games!

Once we start getting the senior players in some form, and our stars back, we will have the perfect blend of experience and youth. This is the year for the Collingwood FC. We will rise and be Premiers in '07.

GO PIES

 

[turned over a new leaf]

Lebo - think you may be bipolar.. Up and down like a bride's nightie1

Re Brodie are you aware that the voting system for the copeland is very biased towards players who play nearly every game? Accordingly he has no chance

 

[Lonie_from_50]

Good post Lebo...but the majority agrees. Be good if we win on ANZAC Day and then this board will see the bandwagoners going how good MM is and the club.

 

[Big Bryza]

I have a funny feeling about Anzac Day, i reckon we might pull one out of the bag. Essendon will be very confident maybe a little overconfident.

 

[Jabso]

What puzzles is me are the few people who rant on about how this year they can't see any improvement, we will be an average side bla bla bla. That is fine. And then when their predictions pan out they spin out and can't understand why this is happening, they want answers etc. etc.

 

[Frederlick]

Pretty much right, footy is about enjoying yourself. Sure, losing sucks, but not every team will win every week and it is still early days, Sydney are 2 from 4 as well and no one there will be panicking just yet.

 

[numb_nutz]

Firstly, to anyone that has read my last few posts, Id just like to apologise, its pretty much the same, Im being positive. But this board is out of control, just thought Id create a thread on the topic.

Pie fans who are going crazy and jumping to big conclusions.
Sack MM, drop bla bla bla, and bla bla bla. We are hopeless ect.

All of you need to take a step back and relax, look at the bigger picture because you are being to simple minded.

First, the most obvious point, we are in Round 4. ONLY Rd 4!

Secondly, we are missing our best midfielder, our best player, and our most influencial player (Dutch, Dids, Bucks) This is a massive difference.

Thirdly, we are 2 and 2. Most likely, 2 and 3 in 4 days but so what?
You didnt expect that at the start of the year? Look at the 2nd point. Bucks did a hammy, Dids was coming back from a reco and Holland was gonna be suspended for the first 6 weeks! We managed to win 2 out of the first few games WITHOUT.......

Forthly, without any of our seniors really standing up and having a good start. To have managed 2 wins from 4 games without Clement dominating, without Cloke dominating in the forward line, without Rusling, without Lica dominating. With LOCKYER leading the Copeland is an unbelieveable achievement.


Guys, you need to relax a little, we are doing fine. We have had an interupted start to the season because of injuries, but thats all it is! We will be fine once Buckley is back in that forward line, once Dids is showing his magic, once the youngsters get some composure.

A big point, put some money on Brodie Holland to win the Copeland Trophy!
This guy has had his pre-season pushed out by an extra 2 months!
He is having a 16 RD season, for a midfielder that is heaven. He would be raring to go and will be phenomenal when he gets back in because he'll hit the ground running!

We are suffering in the ruck department, but when havent we? We made 2 GFs without a ruckman, so is it something new now? Its not our ruck department thats stuffed, we dont even have a ruck, its our midfielders in the stoppages and clearances department thats not on their games!

Once we start getting the senior players in some form, and our stars back, we will have the perfect blend of experience and youth. This is the year for the Collingwood FC. We will rise and be Premiers in '07.

GO PIES

Agree 100%....One of our other problems is the gulf in experience between our senior players and our second tier players...The chances that our young guys r getting now will only fast track their development as senior footballers.....come back and have a crack at the coach and the list after next season.....we r 4 games in FFS....support the club or get lost

 

[AsianWithAFro]

Firstly, to anyone that has read my last few posts, Id just like to apologise, its pretty much the same, Im being positive. But this board is out of control, just thought Id create a thread on the topic.

Pie fans who are going crazy and jumping to big conclusions.
Sack MM, drop bla bla bla, and bla bla bla. We are hopeless ect.

All of you need to take a step back and relax, look at the bigger picture because you are being to simple minded.

First, the most obvious point, we are in Round 4. ONLY Rd 4!

Secondly, we are missing our best midfielder, our best player, and our most influencial player (Dutch, Dids, Bucks) This is a massive difference.

Thirdly, we are 2 and 2. Most likely, 2 and 3 in 4 days but so what?
You didnt expect that at the start of the year? Look at the 2nd point. Bucks did a hammy, Dids was coming back from a reco and Holland was gonna be suspended for the first 6 weeks! We managed to win 2 out of the first few games WITHOUT.......

Forthly, without any of our seniors really standing up and having a good start. To have managed 2 wins from 4 games without Clement dominating, without Cloke dominating in the forward line, without Rusling, without Lica dominating. With LOCKYER leading the Copeland is an unbelieveable achievement.


Guys, you need to relax a little, we are doing fine. We have had an interupted start to the season because of injuries, but thats all it is! We will be fine once Buckley is back in that forward line, once Dids is showing his magic, once the youngsters get some composure.

A big point, put some money on Brodie Holland to win the Copeland Trophy!
This guy has had his pre-season pushed out by an extra 2 months!
He is having a 16 RD season, for a midfielder that is heaven. He would be raring to go and will be phenomenal when he gets back in because he'll hit the ground running!

We are suffering in the ruck department, but when havent we? We made 2 GFs without a ruckman, so is it something new now? Its not our ruck department thats stuffed, we dont even have a ruck, its our midfielders in the stoppages and clearances department thats not on their games!

Once we start getting the senior players in some form, and our stars back, we will have the perfect blend of experience and youth. This is the year for the Collingwood FC. We will rise and be Premiers in '07.

GO PIES

Agree completely with you man (or woman lol). I don't think we'll win the premiership but I pray to God that we'd do. It would be the best year ever

 

[MarkT]

IMO if you aren’t angry at what has happened to our club after having so many early picks and being well placed after 2002 to compile a premiership list then you are just blindly loyal to the point that you are part of the problem. We blew our shot at it and to expect the same people who failed before to succeed this time is irresponsible.

We have a fantastic large and loyal supporter base but we over value our own dramatically and excuse our mistakes habitually. It is one thing to get a few decisions wrong but we have got few right and are far too soft on our own failures. I am at the point now that I almost hope we have an ordinary year and we sack the coach while getting an early draft pick. That’s not what I want to happen but 3 years ago I would have gone ballistic at someone even suggesting. The problem is we have absolutely zero chance of wining a premiership without 15+ list changes on the back of a complete cleanout of the coaching regime and even then we would still be pushing it up hill.

We just aren’t good enough on or off the park.

This is not a reaction to a loss. This is a reaction to continual failure and a lack of accountability. If I go to the AGM and we cop the same pathetic crap as previously I swear I will walk up the stage and throw up on it.

 

[Bay Pie]

I have no problem with people putting their grievances and disagreements with our Trading, drafting, coaching and list management, out there for all to see.

What I would like to see though is some solutions to the problem?

It's very easy to say, we should have drafted him or him, a few years down the track, or traded for him, say sack the coach, delist him.

How about coming up with some realistic solutions?

eg.If we sacked MM who'd we bring in? What ready made ruckman do we trade for and what we'd give up for him and be accepted? Great to say Charman, for example, but has he indicated that he wants to leave?

At least this then puts the posters solutions under scrutiny in the same way the poster is scrutinising the club.

 

[MarkT]

eg.If we sacked MM who'd we bring in?

We elect people to do that and/or to pay others to do it armed with all the data we don’t have and after interviewing all the appropriate people. It isn’t a disgruntled supports job to come up with a new coach it is the board’s job and if they don’t then they fail not the supporters who collectively fund the whole thing. The members however do have a job. To elect a new board if the existing one doesn’t do a good enough job. IMO it is time to weight non field far above off field. Thanks to the fantastic job done be Eddie we are financially secure. Maybe Eddie was the man for the time but not the man for the future. Plenty of Collingwood supporters will disagree with that.

For the sake of your post I comment on the coaching as follows:

If you believe (as I do) that the current coach is not the man to lead the club to a flag then he should go. Who you get to replace him is the second question and should not have ANY bearing on the first decision. It is does then that is gutless and conservative administration. We are not on the breadline having to minimise damage to survive.

The next decision is whether you go new or old. That might depend on who is available. Currently none of the experienced coaches that might be available appeal greatly. I would rather flounder under Blight though than continue under MM. At least a Blight would represent a chance. I would very much prefer to unearth the new coaching sensation. The name is another matter. Maybe it is Longmire; maybe it is McKenna, maybe Voss, maybe even McGuane (admittedly a risk). Perhaps it is someone from left field. There is no shortage of candidates and many have had some quality training in successful organisations.

Let’s just say the club gets it horribly wrong though. Say the new coach is a dud. We finish last for 2 years and sack him. What great harm would have been done? Where are we going to finish over the next 2 years? We hope not bottom of course. Sure there is some downside risk. At least we’d come out of it with the list bolstered by pick ones. It isn’t like MM hasn’t sent us down the ladder anyway.

What ready made ruckman do we trade for and what we'd give up for him and be accepted?

Ask me at the end of the year but in principle I’d love to trade for a ruckman and also draft one.

Great to say Charman, for example, but has he indicated that he wants to leave?

No idea. Does he like money?

At least this then puts the posters solutions under scrutiny in the same way the poster is scrutinising the club.

But the poster, me in this case, isn’t armed with the clubs information or resources and isn’t actually paid to know exactly who is available and what they characteristics are. Even if I have no names for the coaching position or if the names I threw up were all monkeys, as I said, it is the second decision and fundamentally does not alter the first. MM is not better list builder or coach for the lack of a recognised replacement. We still need to do everything better than 15 other clubs to win premierships and we have proven thus far we can’t.

 

[DJ Black @ White Blood]

Pretty much right, footy is about enjoying yourself. Sure, losing sucks, but not every team will win every week and it is still early days, Sydney are 2 from 4 as well and no one there will be panicking just yet.

I have been following the black and white for 30 years now. This is the way i have allways looked at it. We simply need to win 12 games to make the finals. We are 2 and 2. So 10 wins away with 18 matches to go. I dont give a shit who we beat and lose to i just want more then 12 wins by the end of the year. Then its the finals and anything can happen. If we are injury free and fired up we can go all the way. I hate it when people say look who you have beaten only bottom sides. Who cares its a win. I dont think sacking MM and getting rid of half the team is a real good move in round 4. So chill out. I just wish we had of picked up Spider everitt he could have been the difference between finals and going all the way.

 

[richardnose]

IMO if you aren’t angry at what has happened to our club after having so many early picks and being well placed after 2002 to compile a premiership list then you are just blindly loyal to the point that you are part of the problem. We blew our shot at it and to expect the same people who failed before to succeed this time is irresponsible.

We have a fantastic large and loyal supporter base but we over value our own dramatically and excuse our mistakes habitually. It is one thing to get a few decisions wrong but we have got few right and are far too soft on our own failures. I am at the point now that I almost hope we have an ordinary year and we sack the coach while getting an early draft pick. That’s not what I want to happen but 3 years ago I would have gone ballistic at someone even suggesting. The problem is we have absolutely zero chance of wining a premiership without 15+ list changes on the back of a complete cleanout of the coaching regime and even then we would still be pushing it up hill.

We just aren’t good enough on or off the park.

This is not a reaction to a loss. This is a reaction to continual failure and a lack of accountability. If I go to the AGM and we cop the same pathetic crap as previously I swear I will walk up the stage and throw up on it.

if you've been watching the pies over the last 12 months and you haven't noticed a number of talented young players that are skillful, go hard, have a ton of potential and have been great draft picks then you must have been watching the wrong team.

you sad defeatist little twerp.

 

[richardnose]

I have been following the black and white for 30 years now. This is the way i have allways looked at it. We simply need to win 12 games to make the finals. We are 2 and 2. So 10 wins away with 18 matches to go. I dont give a shit who we beat and lose to i just want more then 12 wins by the end of the year. Then its the finals and anything can happen. If we are injury free and fired up we can go all the way. I hate it when people say look who you have beaten only bottom sides. Who cares its a win. I dont think sacking MM and getting rid of half the team is a real good move in round 4. So chill out. I just wish we had of picked up Spider everitt he could have been the difference between finals and going all the way.

no. you win 12 games and you're probably just making up the numbers in the bottom half of the 8 and you're probably looking at interstate knock-out finals. you want to be winning 14-16 games to get top 4. realistically, with all the non-vic clubs at the top now you want to be top 2 to avoid interstate finals. a club like the pies would want to be looking at an mcg prelim final. this is not a comment on how i think we're travelling at the moment, i just don't think anyone would see much upside these days in winning 12 and limping into the finals.

 

[MarkT]

if you've been watching the pies over the last 12 months and you haven't noticed a number of talented young players that are skillful, go hard, have a ton of potential and have been great draft picks then you must have been watching the wrong team.

you sad defeatist little twerp.

I have noticed a number at Collingwood and at other clubs as well. Frankly the number at Collingwood isn’t big enough to win a premiership by a long shot. If I was defeatist I wouldn’t bother going to the games or wanting change would I? We took what appear to be 2 quality players with picks 2 & in the 2005 draft. We have a couple more from previous drafts coming through - notably H. Shaw and Dane Swan who look very good. There are some foot soldiers coming through as well. The class of 2006 are an unknown quantity and every club has similar high hopes for their crop of new draftees. Nothing startling in all of that.

 

[DJ Black @ White Blood]

no. you win 12 games and you're probably just making up the numbers in the bottom half of the 8 and you're probably looking at interstate knock-out finals. you want to be winning 14-16 games to get top 4. realistically, with all the non-vic clubs at the top now you want to be top 2 to avoid interstate finals. a club like the pies would want to be looking at an mcg prelim final. this is not a comment on how i think we're travelling at the moment, i just don't think anyone would see much upside these days in winning 12 and limping into the finals.

You win 12 games and your in most times, you only have to make the finals and yes its a long shot but you can win the flag. Of course i want them to win 16 18 22 games but as a collingwood supporter i want to see us play finals and 8th spot is a lot better then 9th. Give me limping into finals anyday over finishing 9th. My point is everyone doesnt have to turn on the club in round 4 as its a long season

 

[david_345]

8th spot is a lot better then 9th. Give me limping into finals anyday over finishing 9th.

I disagree. I'd rather not make the finals than be humiliated like we were buy the Dogs last year.

It's not about just making the finals and hoping for the best. It's about making finals and being competitive.

I'm old enough to remember a time when we were expected to make the finals and be competitive and our admins didn't accept anything less.

 

[Jabso]

I'd rather make the finals and have a 0.1% chance of winning the big one than missing out on the finals or even tanking getting a top 5 or so pick. It's easy to say I'd rather finish bottom 4 than make the finals and be beaten, but how do you know how we will go in the finals until we the actual finals?

It's better to die on your feet than to live on your knees.

 

[david_345]

but how do you know how we will go in the finals until we the actual finals?

You could have said pretty confidently, after our horror run coming into the finals last year, that we had no chance of being competitive.

We were only there to make up the numbers and didn't come anywhere near the quality of the 7 teams above us.

 

[waveofthefuture]

I disagree. I'd rather not make the finals than be humiliated like we were buy the Dogs last year.

are you kidding? I know that I play football with two ultimate aims on the field: play finals and win finals. I barrack for the pies with wishes of similar results. To rather not make finals, than make them and loose them, just seems absurd to me; i hope the majority of posters on here don't agree with you.

 

[david_345]

are you kidding? I know that I play football with two ultimate aims on the field: play finals and win finals. I barrack for the pies with wishes of similar results. To rather not make finals, than make them and loose them, just seems absurd to me; i hope the majority of posters on here don't agree with you.

Losing and being humiliated are two different things.

Just making the finals and being bundled out first week is a wate of time. Unless we are competitive with other teams in the final series I don't see the point.

 

[MarkT]

I'd rather make the finals and have a 0.1% chance of winning the big one than missing out on the finals or even tanking getting a top 5 or so pick. It's easy to say I'd rather finish bottom 4 than make the finals and be beaten, but how do you know how we will go in the finals until we the actual finals?

This is how football should be. Unfortunately we operate under a system that rewards you more as you perform worse. The player market is tightly controlled because of fear. Finishing 8th every year is feeding mediocrity on mediocrity and is unsustainable.

It's better to die on your feet than to live on your knees.

Yeh good song but The Oils never played in the AFL. Maybe if the barracked for North Melbourne they sing about dieing a slow death on your feet. Maybe if they barracked for Sydney they’d sing about living off success push marketing. Maybe if they barracked for WCE they’d sing about going down on your kness and getting the best player of the generation. Maybe if they barracked for Carlton they do the right thing and cut their own penis’ off so they couldn’t breed.

 

[Therussian]

All this is very good and well for you kids who are positive and think evrything will be dandy,

how about being a 30y.o. who has seen one premiership.

Its just not good enough, we've got all the great facilities and members and all this cash, but year in year out we just fill in the numbers.

its great that you guys believe and think we can win this years flag, but you are kidding yourselves.

we are years of a flag,

we are on the rise no doubt, but we are collingwood ffs, the biggest team in the land, and what have we got to show for it over the past 50 years?

 

[Jabso]

I know I'll get howled down with "it's not AFL" and "it's a different environment/culture" but imagine if we were supporters of say West Ham or even Tottenham, having to cling on to making the Champs league each year, or victories or even draws over Arsenal. I don't know if I could stand that.

 

[richardnose]

how about being a 30y.o. who has seen one premiership.

you old bastard.

anyway, my point was that you're building a team to win the flag. obviously. i like watching the pies in finals too. obviously.

but it's very hard to win a final interstate, especially if the home team has had a week's rest. and if you do pull it off there's going to be a bigger effect on you the following week than if you were coming off a home final at the 'G.

I think the chances of a team coming from 5-8 to win the GF are tough. the crows did it but you could argue that they are more adjusted to regular travel than we are.

to win the flag, the pies probably need to be aiming at a prelim final at the 'G.