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[Markfs]

Think about where that money would be coming from, and that’ll probably answer your question.



Not so sure it does.

Maybe it happens from time-to-time when a civil claim relates to a law having been broken and / or some matter being covered by insurance (eg PL or PI) but I don’t see how that applies here.

You and I are old enough to remember the world being a much more racist / sexist / discriminatory / homophobic place with no legal protections or supportive social norms. Obviously we live in a very different world today. What state were things around the time Lumumba was at CFC? TBH, I don’t have a good sense of that.

actually i had another think about it. As an old catholic, I know a lot about wrong doing and confessions etc. The catholic church doesnt really care about whether you're sorry or not, what it cares about is that you have gone to the church and you have knelt down before a priest and you have admitted your sins....and you have said your penance... the church wants the process. It has no knowledge and doesnt really care if you're sorry or not.

I think lumumba is like the catholic church in this. He wants the bells and whistles etc. He wants the public display. That's the key issue.

 

[HeathySure]

actually i had another think about it. As an old catholic, I know a lot about wrong doing and confessions etc. The catholic church doesnt really care about whether you're sorry or not, what it cares about is that you have gone to the church and you have knelt down before a priest and you have admitted your sins....and you have said your penance... the church wants the process. It has no knowledge and doesnt really care if you're sorry or not.

I think lumumba is like the catholic church in this. He wants the bells and whistles etc. He wants the public display. That's the key issue.

Lumumba is the guy being fiddled by the priest lol I dont think many people see this

 

[No SPIN]

In the same period over 250k white women had babies taken too, a number dwarfing the indigenous stolen generations. No apology.
No mention of compensation or help. They are just told to get on with it. Interesting little factoid that is often glossed over and never talked about.

The indigenous community is still pushing for compensation on many issues (not just stolen gen) and the apology is an admittance of Government wrong doing is still a key piece of the claim.

I'm not sure where to start here.
To actually equate the white women's experience with that of Indigenous women, and ignore the entire history of injustice perpetrated on our indigenous population is regrettable.
The "apology" is below - the majority of which is unrelated to the stolen generation, and offers a much broader admission of injustice, that the white population has never suffered.

Apology to Australia's Indigenous Peoples

Apology to Australia’s Indigenous Peoples, 2008, The Hon Kevin Rudd (author and signatory) (born 1957), Gemma Black (calligrapher) (born 1956), Gifts Collection, Parliament House Art Collection, Canberra ACT. Commissioned by The Department of Families, Housing, Community S

www.aph.gov.au

 

[sr36]

Are you minimalising what Davis and Krakouer have experienced as well?

It isn't Lumumba alone.

Just reading what Andrew Krakouer has said he faced at Collingwood was heartbreaking and beyond belief that those things couldf have been said to him by a team mate.

For Davis and Krakouer to also withdraw from communication suggests that at least in their eyes, the Do Better report may not be in practice what it is said to be in theory.

The Club would know why they are upset, so the self-serving Collingwood PR release doesn't cut it for me.

With the Krak incident, it's important to remember that racist jokes are made by individuals and not clubs. The club's responsibility is to decrease the likelihood of them occurring through education and consequences for breaches of expected norms. One employee making a racist joke doesn't necessarily besmirch the whole club if they've responded appropriately to the issue both before the incident occurred (which is actually done by the AFL with training of all draftees) and responded appropriately to known breaches of expected norms. I didn't think the Krak incident went upstairs to mmt, so the responsibility for it is the prior education and laying down of expected norms - no idea whether the club was negligent there or not.

 

[Markfs]

Lumumba is the guy being fiddled by the priest lol I dont think many people see this

well done health...

 

[No SPIN]

Lol how about this then my 10 year old daughters class were all asked to draw a superhero, she was told make sure you don't draw her white as that will make some people here angry.

My other daughter often feels ashamed of her skin colour being white as well.

Want to talk about racism how about we talk about the agenda in the media and sjw types putting down the white race constantly to the point our children are being affected.

Constantly told they have no culture, are racist by default, can be called white cuts, crackers, racist (derogatory term often used to insult or shut down discourse), bogan, can't have an opinion or state facts if it doesn't suite the agenda, made to feel lesser than in general.
On the flip side there is Black power shirts everywhere, celebration of black culture, black empowerment, indigenous support schooling medical dental sponsors, job placement and training the support from the general population never been greater, hearing a racist comment is just about unheard crikey people are too scared to even call out bullshit or state facts let alone make a derogatory comment.
There is also a HR employment anti white male sentiment rapidly growing.

This again is a disappointing post .
White victimhood now portrayed as an existential threat, comparable to the injustice experienced by indigenous people over 200 years.
I think you need to spend some time studying history.

 

[The Royal Sampler]

With Davis confirmed, I added Krak as my own assumption. Yes, I'd be a terrible journo...or a good one.

So what you’re saying is that up to 11 former Collingwood players have cut off communications with the club. Big news if true.

 

[76woodenspooners]

i was watching a thing about music copyright...and ed sheeran and similar..... they get sued.... they dont think they have infringed but they pay out because its easier to get back to normal.

That’s because laws are alleged to have been broken, and presumably the respondent has agreed to not contest it (presumably under advice from their lawyers / managers)

We live in a world today where being branded a “plagiarist” doesn’t have the same consequences as being branded a “racist”.

The whole matter now rests on whether the club can accept 3 indigenous players not having contact with it.

You and I are just punters …

… but I’d imagine that from the club’s point of view that it’s important to be precise about how this is characterized so that they are being sincere and acting in good faith …

… so given that Lumumba is making no claims about being Australian indigenous, and that Davis (and presumably Krakouer) have hooked their caravan up to Lumumba, then this matter would seem to be generally racial and not specifically indigenous.

 

[Markfs]

i'm watching hawthorn to see how they deal with an issue...

 

[The Royal Sampler]

You then shifted the goal posts to the case is closed and it's hard to re instate the writ, plus it's easy to defend Collingwood.

No mate he just said “not too hard to serve a defendant like the CFC”.

Not saying anything about the strength of the case, i.e. ease of defending the CFC, but how hard it is to find us on Olympic Boulevard and hand in the paperwork. It’s not like our board are all on an expedition to the South Pole and can’t be contacted.

 

[Markfs]

That’s because laws are alleged to have been broken, and presumably the respondent has agreed to not contest it (presumably under advice from their lawyers / managers)

We live in a world today where being branded a “plagiarist” doesn’t have the same consequences as being branded a “racist”.



You and I are just punters …

… but I’d imagine that from the club’s point of view that it’s important to be precise about how this is characterized so that they are being sincere and acting in good faith …

… so given that Lumumba is making no claims about being Australian indigenous, and that Davis (and presumably Krakouer) have hooked their caravan up to Lumumba, then this matter would seem to be generally racist and not specifically indigenous.

you make a couple of good points and i can see that the club can hardly say it's guilty for people who are no longer associated with the club.

i dont think sincerity is the issue here at this stage. they should be looking at an outcome that works.

as i said in my last post, i think lumumba wants something public that vindicates what he has been saying...

 

[HeathySure]

I

well done health...

I will stand by my analogy. Collingwood did Lubumba wrong and he has complained and complained about it with no resolution except a club who made an faux apology and the people who did him wrong walk around scott free. He isnt, and never has been listened too. Everyone who says he is grandstanding thinks that an apology is all that is needed. Its nowhere near enough. There is no closure for him (and Leon and Krak). I dont see anyone saying please come back to the club we will try and resolve your issues. What is see is here is your apology accept or go away.
There is no problem solved , its at a standstill and will always be until its worked out and remedied. No steps have been taken towards this

.

 

[sideswipe]

I
I will stand by my analogy. Collingwood did Lubumba wrong and he has complained and complained about it with no resolution except a club who made an faux apology and the people who did him wrong walk around scott free. He isnt, and never has been listened too. Everyone who says he is grandstanding thinks that an apology is all that is needed. Its nowhere near enough. There is no closure for him (and Leon and Krak). I dont see anyone saying please come back to the club we will try and resolve your issues. What is see is here is your apology accept or go away.
There is no problem solved , its at a standstill and will always be until its worked out and remedied. No steps have been taken towards this

.

How do you know that the club hasn’t made other efforts to reconcile with HL? That you haven’t “seen anyone saying please come back…” doesn’t mean efforts haven’t been made. To me, it sounds like efforts may well have been made.

How do you reconcile his lawyer’s public statements about the Do Better report “vindicating our client’s claims” yet not even serving the writ? It’s very odd. Achieving some sort of resolution with that in the background wouldn’t be easy.

I hope every effort continues to be made by the Club. But that isn’t to necessarily say efforts haven’t already been made.


On iPhone using BigFooty.com mobile app

 

[loki04]

This again is a disappointing post .
White victimhood now portrayed as an existential threat, comparable to the injustice experienced by indigenous people over 200 years.
I think you need to spend some time studying history.

No it's all factual. This all happened. Why in raising one up should we degenerate another and make more wrongs.

10 year old victim hood hey, more like upset 10 year old girl for being made to feel her race is less then or evil.

 

[sr36]

I
I will stand by my analogy. Collingwood did Lubumba wrong and he has complained and complained about it with no resolution except a club who made an faux apology and the people who did him wrong walk around scott free. He isnt, and never has been listened too. Everyone who says he is grandstanding thinks that an apology is all that is needed. Its nowhere near enough. There is no closure for him (and Leon and Krak). I dont see anyone saying please come back to the club we will try and resolve your issues. What is see is here is your apology accept or go away.
There is no problem solved , its at a standstill and will always be until its worked out and remedied. No steps have been taken towards this

Have you missed what the story's resurfacing is about? Collingwood are trying to organise the truth telling process recommended by the experts who wrote the report. What do you think the purpose of the truth telling process is? Meanwhile, HL prefers twitter...

 

[Maggie Greg]

Have you missed what the story's resurfacing is about? Collingwood are trying to organise the truth telling process recommended by the experts who wrote the report. What do you think the purpose of the truth telling process is? Meanwhile, HL prefers twitter...

He has already been through the truth telling process.

 

[HeathySure]

How do you know that the club hasn’t made other efforts to reconcile with HL? That you haven’t “seen anyone saying please come back…” doesn’t mean efforts haven’t been made. To me, it sounds like efforts may well have been made.

How do you reconcile his lawyer’s public statements about the Do Better report “vindicating our client’s claims” yet not even serving the writ? It’s very odd. Achieving some sort of resolution with that in the background wouldn’t be easy.

I hope every effort continues to be made by the Club. But that isn’t to necessarily say efforts haven’t already been made.


On iPhone using BigFooty.com mobile app

Vindicating the claims doesn't solve any problem. Just says it exists. Aknowledging the problem doesn't solve any problem. Its been a year since the report and he still isn't being listened too.

I have it on good authority that another player who recently retired was not helped out by the club either, mental health issues were very real and that player has set up a trust fund and business that funnels ALL profits from that business to people who suffer from a similar mental health problem. That player retired even though he wanted to play on. He was not getting the support he needed and now resents the club and the supporters for the way he was treated.

If the club is trying to get things right they are not going about it the correct way.

By the way my source is a player manager and recommends his players go to other clubs rather than ours, its part of the reason we don't get the free agents we should

 

[HeathySure]

Have you missed what the story's resurfacing is about? Collingwood are trying to organise the truth telling process recommended by the experts who wrote the report. What do you think the purpose of the truth telling process is? Meanwhile, HL prefers twitter...

there are different types of apologies
just because the club is doing something doesnt mean its the right thing

 

[Markfs]

I
I will stand by my analogy. Collingwood did Lubumba wrong and he has complained and complained about it with no resolution except a club who made an faux apology and the people who did him wrong walk around scott free. He isnt, and never has been listened too. Everyone who says he is grandstanding thinks that an apology is all that is needed. Its nowhere near enough. There is no closure for him (and Leon and Krak). I dont see anyone saying please come back to the club we will try and resolve your issues. What is see is here is your apology accept or go away.
There is no problem solved , its at a standstill and will always be until its worked out and remedied. No steps have been taken towards this

.

in lieu of having lumumba in the forum, what do you think he wants? how can he get closure?

 

[sideswipe]

Vindicating the claims doesn't solve any problem. Just says it exists. Aknowledging the problem doesn't solve any problem. Its been a year since the report and he still isn't being listened too.

I have it on good authority that another player who recently retired was not helped out by the club either, mental health issues were very real and that player has set up a trust fund and business that funnels ALL profits from that business to people who suffer from a similar mental health problem. That player retired even though he wanted to play on. He was not getting the support he needed and now resents the club and the supporters for the way he was treated.

If the club is trying to get things right they are not going about it the correct way.

Sorry, I may not have phrased my question properly. Why do you think the writ wasn’t served on the Club if the Do Better report vindicated their client’s claims as they stated?

Hard to reconcile with that going on.

As for your other claims, that’s a different kettle of fish. There are plenty of managers who recommend Collingwood as a “destination club”.


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[sr36]

… so given that Lumumba is making no claims about being Australian indigenous, and that Davis (and presumably Krakouer) have hooked their caravan up to Lumumba, then this matter would seem to be generally racial and not specifically indigenous.

I'd suggest that it's not as general as racism. It's a connection due to racism involving black skin - a linking to the Black Lives Matter movement. I doubt we'll see any linking to the enormous amounts of racism experienced by southern Europeans in the VFL and the broader community in times past.

No doubt that HL's skin colour plays an important part in disadvantage in his heritage and probably childhood in Australia, but I find the linking of HL with the Do Better Report about indigenous inclusion somewhat uncomfortable. Whilst I'm sure that HL suffered from some racism in Melbourne as an adult, his particular ethnicity was also perceived as very cool and it opened a heap of doors in a way that has never occured for indigenous Australians - nor used to occur for Southern Europeans. His experiences regarding race are not particularly parallel to indigenous Australian ones. I think that's part of the reason for the backlash against HL- as a public figure, he has been both advantaged and disadvantaged by his ethnicity.

 

[No SPIN]

No it's all factual. This all happened. Why in raising one up should we degenerate another and make more wrongs.

10 year old victim hood hey, more like upset 10 year old girl for being made to feel her race is less then or evil.

One has been denigrated for 200 years not 5 minutes - that’s the difference.

 

[loki04]

I'm not sure where to start here.
To actually equate the white women's experience with that of Indigenous women, and ignore the entire history of injustice perpetrated on our indigenous population is regrettable.
The "apology" is below - the majority of which is unrelated to the stolen generation, and offers a much broader admission of injustice, that the white population has never suffered.

Apology to Australia's Indigenous Peoples

Apology to Australia’s Indigenous Peoples, 2008, The Hon Kevin Rudd (author and signatory) (born 1957), Gemma Black (calligrapher) (born 1956), Gifts Collection, Parliament House Art Collection, Canberra ACT. Commissioned by The Department of Families, Housing, Community S

www.aph.gov.au

Of course it equates ya heartless prick read the stories they all had babies forcibly removed and en masse across the same generational period.

You are saying because the indigenous also had other atrocities happen which are well known its some how less of a crime or less hateful/hurtful impactful to do it white people?

I don't need to study what happened because not only have I studied it, I have indigenous family and friends and know their views and handed down stories, I grew up as a kid in heavily poor indigenous community and seen it first hand.
My partners grandmother had 2 indigenous babies taken at birth from her first partner before remarrying later.


My point is they are both devastating to their families and the kids impacted one is not worse then the other.

 

[HeathySure]

in lieu of having lumumba in the forum, what do you think he wants? how can he get closure?

the historical racism dealt with

 

[HeathySure]

Sorry, I may not have phrased my question properly. Why do you think the writ wasn’t served on the Club if the Do Better report vindicated their client’s claims as they stated?

Hard to reconcile with that going on.

As for your other claims, that’s a different kettle of fish. There are plenty of managers who recommend Collingwood as a “destination club”.


On iPhone using BigFooty.com mobile app

you may be surprised , we haven't got many have we.,