List Mgmt. COLLINGWOOD Trade and F/A Discussion 2022-->

[Anzacday]

Key dates attached so we know what’s going on when.

• Friday 30 September at 9.00am

• AFL Restricted Free Agency and Unrestricted Free Agency Period commences

Monday 03 October at 9.00am

• AFL Trade Period commences – Players & Selections

Friday 07 October at 5.00pm

• Close of AFL Restricted Free Agency Offer and Unrestricted Free Agency Period.

Monday 10 October

• AFL Draft Nominations open (9am)
• AFL Restricted Free Agency Matching Offer 3 Day Period Ends (5pm)

Wednesday 12 October at 7.30pm

• AFL Trade Period closes – players and selections

Thursday 03 November at 9.00am

• AFL Delisted Player Free Agency Period (1) commences

Wednesday 09 November at 5.00pm

• AFL Delisted Player Free Agency Period (1) closes

Friday 11 November at 9.00am

• AFL Delisted Player Free Agency Period (2) commences

Tuesday 15 November by 5.00pm

• AFL Delisted Player Free Agency Period (2) closes
• AFL Trade Period closes – selections only

Monday 21 November by 3.00pm

• AFL Draft Nominations close

Monday 28 November at 7.10pm

• 2022 AFL Draft Round One (Venue TBC)
• Father/Son, Academy & NGA and Players Bidding opens.

Tuesday 29 November

• AFL Trade Period – selections only (5.45pm to 6.30pm)
• 2022 AFL National Draft Round two until completion (7pm)
• Rookie Upgrade Period opens (10pm)
• AFL Delisted Player Free Agency Period (3) commences (10pm)
• Rookie Upgrade Period closes (11pm)
• AFL Delisted Player Free Agency Period (3) closes (11pm)

Wednesday 30 November

• AFL Pre-Season Draft (3pm, online)
• AFL Rookie Draft (3.20pm, online)

Thursday 01 December by 4.00pm

• Final AFL Club List Lodgement

 

[sr36]

No, No, No! An example that appears plausible on the surface but is in no way analogous to the original contention, which was that a decision could be considered good after the event if the outcome was unremittingly bad.

I give up.

Yes, Yes, Yes. The original was claiming that it was an ok decision to trade Treloar, which had a bad outcome. I don't really agree with the point, but it's not illogical like you are claiming. The decision is only one of the variables that affect an outcome.

 

[Couch Coach]

Around the boards Collingwood Focus 26/09:

151 pages added and a new thread since my previous post

Adelaide: Frampton to us. Interest in Poulter.
Brisbane: McStay to us.
Carlton: Want Henry. Think they can brown paper bag the comp. (i.e bring in T Mitchell, Papley, etc.). Picking on us saying they are better:
"Don’t want to get too off topic but am I the only one who thinks the pies moves are making them worse?
Losing Grundy is a huge loss. Mcstay is a real average forward, hill is average. Fiorini could be okay and Frampton is also okay.
De goey 5 year deal really? Like I’m a bit stunned by their moves to be honest I think that’s making them worse"
Essendon:
Fremantle:
Geelong: Getting Henry, cost 1st rounder.
Gold Coast: Fiorini to us.
GWS: "Yeah s**t, we’ve just done a Collingwood havent we…"
Hawthorn: Still Mitchell talk. "Collingwood In: Mitchell, Out: 42+47"
Melbourne: Grundy to Melbourne.
North:
Power: Poulter and Hayes talk.
Richmond:
St Kilda: Still De Goey talk.
Sydney: De Goey and Grundy talk after the GF loss.
Bulldogs:
West Coast:

Collingwood Board:
IN:

• McStay [nominated Collingwood McStay opts to McGo: Lions tall set to join Magpies]
• Hill [nominated Collingwood Small forward confirms wish to head to Magpies]
• Frampton [nominated Collingwood McStay opts to McGo: Lions tall set to join Magpies]

OUT:

• C Brown (Deleisted 70 games)
• T Brown (Delisted 27 games)
• I Chugg (Delisted 2 games)
• L McMahon (Delisted)

POSSIBLES:

• Grundy (Out Melbourne)
• Fiorini (In)
• Mitchell (In)
• Parish (In EB&W Rumour)
• Hayes (In)
• Henry (Out Geelong)
• Poulter (Out Adelaide)

 

[Juan Ide]

Yes, Yes, Yes. The original was claiming that it was an ok decision to trade Treloar, which had a bad outcome. I don't really agree with the point, but it's not illogical like you are claiming. The decision is only one of the variables that affect an outcome.

"Which had a bad outcome" was not what was argued. If it had been, I'd have had no logical objection. "Which had an outcome which was in no way, shape or form good" was argued and this is palpably and self-defeatingly illogical!

A perfect example of the problem gambler's justification for having placed a losing bet.

 

[sr36]

"Which had a bad outcome" was not what was argued. If it had been, I'd have had no logical objection. "Which had an outcome which was in no way, shape or form good" was argued and this is palpably and self-defeatingly illogical!

A perfect example of the problem gambler's justification for having placed a losing bet.

I'm missing something here:

Other than a stylistic choice for emphasis, I'm struggling to see the difference between a "bad outcome" and "an outcome which was in no way, shape or form good"

 

[whiskeytown]

Why is everyone so keen to drop Murphy from our best 22?
His growth this year was huge. Reminds me a lot of Ben Reid albeit not as good obviously.

Edit: it's also laughable that Frampton is the one tipped to replace him.... the player that was about to be delisted by Adelaide and almost certainly, never actually sited by the poster.

Except Frampton vs Murphy comparison is not as one sided as you think. Frampton is both bigger and more damaging down back

Billy Frampton and Nathan Murphy AFL Stats Comparison

Billy Frampton and Nathan Murphy AFL Stats Comparison.

www.footywire.com

Frampton plays back next year to release Moore to CHB.

With Maynard, Quaynor and Noble the other incumbents…

It’s then out of Howe/Murphy for the other spot

I see Howe as first up… with Murphy as next up

 

[Juan Ide]

I'm missing something here:

Other than a stylistic choice for emphasis, I'm struggling to see the difference between a "bad outcome" and "an outcome which was in no way, shape or form good"

"Little Billy chose and ate a beef sandwich for lunch from the school canteen, because he was hungry.
Because the beef was not properly cooked, he became very ill and was admitted to hospital.
In hospital he met his future girlfriend, who he married twenty years later and they lived happily ever after".

An example of a bad outcome, (as well a good one).

"Little Billy chose and ate...
He died in terrible agony".

An example of an outcome which was "in no way, shape or form good".

 

[PREETY_FLY]

Tom Mitchell highly likely to get to pies according to Sam Edmund on the trade bell.

Good pickup

 

[Peter Sidorkiewicz]

Looks a great line up Swanbet. Really like it.

I put a few changes in to what I think would be bang on. Balanced. Two key forwards. Another tall back, another clearance mid.

Mcstay CHF- mobile, can get up the wings, creates a contest and contested mark.
Krueger FF - two genuine tall strong forwards making life tougher for backs.
Hill - closer to goal, not sold on his defensive work, keep him under krueger, elliot also a beautiful lead up target to the wings.
Henry and mihocek working the flank.
Mitchell on ball.


B: B.Maynard, B.Frampton, J.Howe
HB: N.Daicos, D.Moore, , J.Crisp
C: I.Quaynor, J.DeGoey, J.Daicos
HF:J.Elliott, D.McStay, ,B.Mihochek,
F: B.Hill,, N.Kreuger , J.Ginnivan
R: D.Cameron, T.Adams, T.Mitchell
I: S.Pendlebury, P.Lipinski, B.Mccreery, O.Henry.

SUB Sidebottom,

DEPTH: N.Murphy, J.Noble, M.Cox, W.Hoskin-Elliott, ,T.Bianco, A.Johnson, F.Macrae

Nick Daicos will be a full time midfielder next season. Swap with Quaynor.

I wouldn't put Crisp back to defense after the season he has had on ball. Replace with Mitchell and Noble to half back.

I'm not convinced Mitchell is on the team radar. Fiorini seems more likely. I think Mitchell will only be in consideration if De Goey leaves.

Murphy to bench for Oli Henry who will leave for Geelong. I'll also swap Sidebottom and McCreery. Sidebottom isn't suited to sub role. He is a player that wants to run all day while McCreery is the opposite and a burst player who would be suited to sub role.

If Grundy stays, then Cameron will play VFL.

And personally Pendlebury is STILL a much better player than Adams. I would start him and give Adams less minutes in midfield. He just burns the ball far too much. The team didnt miss him in the finals.

 

[Cousin of Daicos]

Because many see him as the Howe replacement.

If Frampton or Dean come in and take the #1 tall, which frees up Moore, Howe and Maynard to play shorter/looser, then where does Murphy fit?

Mostly everyone is super happy with Murphy, we just like the idea of the above scenario happening, and if Howe is still doing Howe things, then Murphy needs to wait his turn.

Because Murphy should be forcing Howe out, which honestly he should be doing

As an actual defender, Murphy was better than Howe this season. Even on taller opponents

So if Moore/Maynard/Quaynor etc are freed up somewhat by the arrival of a second tall, then Howe becomes kinda superfluous at his age

 

[Cousin of Daicos]

Tom Mitchell highly likely to get to pies according to Sam Edmund on the trade bell.

Good pickup

Didn't he actually say the complete opposite?

I recall Mitchell being mentioned and he was like "No". Which shocked me given all the talk around it happening

 

[sr36]

"Little Billy chose and ate a beef sandwich for lunch from the school canteen, because he was hungry.
Because the beef was not properly cooked, he became very ill and was admitted to hospital.
In hospital he met his future girlfriend, who he married twenty years later and they lived happily ever after".

An example of a bad outcome, (as well a good one).

"Little Billy chose and ate...
He died in terrible agony".

An example of an outcome which was "in no way, shape or form good".

But the difference between those two outcomes isn't the decision - it's luck.

And I'd suggest "in no way shape or form good" usually means bad, but is also often used to make a neutral outcome sound really bad. So I'm still not getting your point.

 

[The Royal Sampler]

According to a fair few posters on the Adelaide board Framptons strenghts are his kicking, mobility and intercept marking. He struggled one on one or locking down forwards. As such he sounds more back up for Darcy if he is injured. It seems more likely Dean or Kelly could be the tall other back. At this stage i reckon Murphy gets a game ahead of all 3 of those even if its to play on the big forwards.

I’ve mentioned it previously but I think Frampton is a pretty good analogue for Lachie Keeffe. Good size, moves very well for that size, excellent kick, reliable mark… but slow to react so will get burnt on the lead by quicker forwards, and can get a bit lost in traffic.

 

[Pragmatic Shill]

Jason McCartney

Jason Mccartney

Age

50

Ht

191cm

Wt

95kg

Pos.

D/F

Career

Season

Last 5

D

10.7

3star

K

7.1

3star

HB

3.5

3star

M

3.6

4star

T

0.8

3star

No current season stats available

D

10.0

3star

K

5.8

3star

HB

4.2

4star

M

3.8

4star

T

0.6

3star

will be on Trade Radio some time before noon, so probably will get a bit of insight on the Hill trade.

On SM-G981B using BigFooty.com mobile app

 

[The Royal Sampler]

Nabbing Mitchell would really be a huge get. Someone who can feed our slick users whilst lessening the grunt workload of Adams sounds brilliant. Praying that Dave’s source is on the money about that.

The fact that he’s made his intentions public, says to me we’ve at least given him reason to think we can fit him in. Hopefully it’s not just under ideal conditions during trade week and actually a realistic proposition.

 

[Gone Critical]

Except Frampton vs Murphy comparison is not as one sided as you think. Frampton is both bigger and more damaging down back

Billy Frampton and Nathan Murphy AFL Stats Comparison

Billy Frampton and Nathan Murphy AFL Stats Comparison.

www.footywire.com

Frampton plays back next year to release Moore to CHB.

With Maynard, Quaynor and Noble the other incumbents…

It’s then out of Howe/Murphy for the other spot

I see Howe as first up… with Murphy as next up

Murphy has shown solid AFL form and has been able to hold down a spot as a tall back in a good team. Frampton has never been able to do that. His biggest struggle as a backman is said to be locking down an opponent and playing one on one. Being big doesnt automatically make you good at lock down roles.

Frampton has to start the season behind our incumbents. He has no history of being able to hold down an AFL possie in 8 seasons , how could anybody propose he is going straight into out best 22

 

[Gone Critical]

I’ve mentioned it previously but I think Frampton is a pretty good analogue for Lachie Keeffe. Good size, moves very well for that size, excellent kick, reliable mark… but slow to react so will get burnt on the lead by quicker forwards, and can get a bit lost in traffic.

Yep, a poor mans Lachie Keefe

 

[nortamor]

Murphy has shown solid AFL form and has been able to hold down a spot as a tall back in a good team. Frampton has never been able to do that. His biggest struggle as a backman is said to be locking down an opponent and playing one on one. Being big doesnt automatically make you good at lock down roles.

Frampton has to start the season behind our incumbents. He has no history of being able to hold down an AFL possie in 8 seasons , how could anybody propose he is going straight into out best 22

With you on Murphy ability but he isn’t a tall back, he’s a flanker playing undersized. We are crying out for another big backman, but whoever it is wether it’s a recruit or internal it’s a must fill position for many reasons.


On iPhone using BigFooty.com mobile app

 

[whiskeytown]

Murphy has shown solid AFL form and has been able to hold down a spot as a tall back in a good team. Frampton has never been able to do that. His biggest struggle as a backman is said to be locking down an opponent and playing one on one. Being big doesnt automatically make you good at lock down roles.

Frampton has to start the season behind our incumbents. He has no history of being able to hold down an AFL possie in 8 seasons , how could anybody propose he is going straight into out best 22

Frampton hasn’t played back for much time… and yet his SANFL form and AFL form has been elite

Though perhaps you are right in that he may not be as suited to full back but better as a half back

Still… at 200cm and near 100kg… I’m sure he will be given an opportunity to play there because to persist with Moore at full back really just clips his wings

But this idea that Frampton is rubbish because he is not best 22 at the crows shows that people have learnt nothing from the Lipinski and Cameron trades at all

 

[Gone Critical]

With you on Murphy ability but he isn’t a tall back, he’s a flanker playing undersized. We are crying out for another big backman, but whoever it is wether it’s a recruit or internal it’s a must fill position for many reasons.


On iPhone using BigFooty.com mobile app

I think Dean is the most likely of the current non 22 but all of Kelly, Dean and Frampton are unproven or have failed at AFL level at this point. It may be Murphy ends up being best for the role even if its not ideal for him.

 

[Jen2310]

 

[Gone Critical]

Frampton hasn’t played back for much time… and yet his SANFL form and AFL form has been elite

Though perhaps you are right in that he may not be as suited to full back but better as a half back

Still… at 200cm and near 100kg… I’m sure he will be given an opportunity to play there because to persist with Moore at full back really just clips his wings

But this idea that Frampton is rubbish because he is not best 22 at the crows shows that people have learnt nothing from the Lipinski and Cameron trades at all

Lipinski at 50+ games after 5 years at a club who had a multi year contract on the table for him is very different to an 8 year, 2 club player who has 24 games and is about to be delisted a 2nd time.

Sure pick him up and great if he makes it but he has just played SANFL after round 8 in this role and couldnt break into Adelaides 22, why would you put him in ours straight away. Kellys and even McMahons stats where pretty similar down back in the VFL to what Frampton was doing at SANFL level. A younger Kelly, similar size who has had less time in the system should be ahead of Frampton if we are just looking for big.

 

[Cousin of Daicos]

I mean, maybe it's possible Frampton will be tried as a forward/ruck?

At 200cm and around 100kg, he seems to have the physical attributes to play that role.

With McStay to play down back and Dean as depth

Checkers has been forced to play above his size so if Kruger, Frampton and Checkers/Johnson play as the bigger trio alongside Hill, McCreery and Ginni as the smalls?

 

[KinderSmock]

Chad Warner

1

Chad Warner

Age

23

Ht

185cm

Wt

82kg

Pos.

Mid

Career

Season

Last 5

D

7.0

2star

K

4.5

2star

HB

2.5

2star

M

1.5

2star

T

1.5

3star

CL

0.0

1star

D

7.0

1star

K

4.5

2star

HB

2.5

2star

M

1.5

2star

T

1.5

2star

CL

0.0

1star

D

7.0

2star

K

4.5

2star

HB

2.5

3star

M

1.5

2star

T

1.5

4star

CL

0.0

1star

is a good example of the importance of second round picks. Although they don't always turn out, he was a speculative selection that has paid dividends. We tend to attack the first and third rounds, but often sell of a second rounder when there's plenty of talent to be found. It's not the end of the world if we lack a pick, but a Warner-type - someone who we were a bit unsure of - would have helped us this year. We're very slim on talent in the 2016-2019 classes when we traded like crazy.

Coming back to bite now.

 

[nortamor]

I think Dean is the most likely of the current non 22 but all of Kelly, Dean and Frampton are unproven or have failed at AFL level at this point. It may be Murphy ends up being best for the role even if its not ideal for him.

I don’t really mind who it is because if moore or howe are injured we need the depth down back if they go with this years model, which I doubt they will. This years draft is all about building depth, we had a pretty good run with injuries this year, we can’t rely on that again if we want to contend again


On iPhone using BigFooty.com mobile app

 

[left at home]

Frampton doesn't get a game in front of Murphy at this point.
Yes he does

How